Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

CATCH17 · Nov 24, 2020

Streetwise said:
You don't understand the significance in Elliott and Pollard. You are simply assuming that each RB can be plugged into an offense, take all the carries and produce at a high level. You think Pollard would be the wiser choice because he's still on a rookie contract.

You're just plain wrong man. Pollard would need to be every bit the RB Elliott is. He's not, he's not the same type of RB and that's why we have BOTH. It's actually a good thing, but some fans try to get themselves wrapped up in contract amounts like they understand how it would work.

No I think most RBs are plug and play and I just don’t value spending a ton of money on them. It doesn’t look like championship teams do either.

The great Ezekiel Elliot no longer makes a difference in games and hasn’t for awhile.

RonnieT24 · Nov 24, 2020

gjkoeppen said:
Boy I like how you try to cover all your bases with this discussion. Gee you really narrowed it down with the 2nd back can have either higher or lower YPC. Yes Elliott and Pollard are two different types of backs but your assessment that a faster back that has moves can't be productive in the NFL is hogwash. The first one I thought of that was a faster back with moves and wasn't a power back to be a BIG TIME back in the NFL is Barry Sanders. Then in today's NFL how about Alvin Kamara or LeSean McCoy was another speed back with moves and not a power back.

When Elliott first came into the league he had a little speed to go with his power but he seems to have lost that speed and as far as his power thus far this season it seems like he's hit at the line of scrimmage all to often and hasn't broke many tackles and has far to many no gains or just a yard or two runs.
.
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I don't recall anyone saying any such thing. Of course a smaller, faster back can be productive. They just typically can't do it with any consistency.. and often struggle when you really need them to. Kamara's ypc average in the playoffs is 3.3. During the regular season it's 4.9... Weird isn't it?
McCoy? He's better in the playoffs than Kamara.. 3.9 ypc . but still a significant drop from his 4.4 ypc during the regular season. He also has averaged a big fat 44.4 yards per game in the playoffs. Yeah.. certainly want to build around that! But at least he is better than Kamara and his 34.6 yards a game in the playoffs..

Then there's Zeke.. who so far in his career had averaged 4.5 ypc and 103 yards per game in the playoffs..
Or maybe Emmitt.. who averaged 4.5 ypc and 93.3 yards a game in the playoffs.

Both Zeke and Emmitt are BETTER in the playoffs than the regular season..

But let's continue worship at the alter of the "big play backs." I'll let yall do that.. I aint comin to that church with ya.. I know better.

CATCH17 · Nov 24, 2020

RonnieT24 said:
It's fine to want to see more of Pollard.. but this business of referencing his contract makes no sense. If the team can win games with Zeke doing what he do who cares about the size of his paycheck? You can find someone cheaper? Hell you can say that about just about every player in the league who isn't on a rookie contract. I think people spend far too much time on that nonsense. Win games.. I don't care how you do it.. I don't care how much they pay you to do it. Win games.. End of story..

Good point.. When does all the winning with Zeke start?

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

Idgit said:
I agree with the first part of that.

Sometimes, the second stringers really can play. it depends on the player, but especially at RB where you can find good backs regularly in the 3rd and 4th rounds.

WHich ones of OUR #2 went successfully to #1 for more than one or two years?

Not trying to be confrontational....just can;t think of anyone who assumed #1 spot and tore it up for any length of time.

CATCH17 · Nov 24, 2020

Streetwise said:
Pollard isn't any of the RBs you mentioned.

Top tier RBs are getting away with 15 carries a game.

This theory of a bell cow back in 2020 being some great thing is silly.

Alvin Kamara is the best RB in the league and guess what? He can’t carry the load either. Nobody should care about that. It means nothing anymore.

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Good point.. When does all the winning with Zeke start?

Same time we start "winning" with Dak?

PS....No...I didn't look at the reply tree. But just taking your statement on the surface...is...ridiculous. Zeke needs to get us wins but for Dak it's a "team game".

SteveTheCowboy · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Top tier RBs are getting away with 15 carries a game.

This theory of a bell cow back in 2020 being some great thing is silly.

No...it isn't.

It's silly to say it's silly when you haven;t been given an opportunity to do it for many reasons...including behind behind 2-3 TD's.

Let's go up 2-3 and then see if your silly comment holds water.

RonnieT24 · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Good point.. When does all the winning with Zeke start?

As soon as we get back to feeding him the ball and riding the horse that he is.. Kinda like last Sunday. If the defense keeps us from being down three scores and we can keep letting Zeke beat on the defense, then cross them up with a change of pace like Pollard, we will win more than we lose even with Dalton at QB. The early season losses fall squarely on the shoulders of the offense fumbling and the defense playing like a high school squad. Once we remove those two features from the equation the winning will continue. Our formula needs to be 20 carries for Zeke, 10 for Pollard and < 35 pass attempts. Now that the defense has decided to participate in the season that formula can and will win games.

CATCH17 · Nov 24, 2020

Cowboy Lover said:
Same time we start "winning" with Dak?

PS....No...I didn't look at the reply tree. But just taking your statement on the surface...is...ridiculous. Zeke needs to get us wins but for Dak it's a "team game".

Nah.. Both can hit the road.

Football is a team game and I don’t see any signs of guys like Dak getting paid and RBs getting top dollar leading teams to championships.

Right now we have a good recipe to be mediocre and being mediocre keeps you mediocre.

Id rather be awful then mediocre.

G2 · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Top tier RBs are getting away with 15 carries a game.

This theory of a bell cow back in 2020 being some great thing is silly.

Alvin Kamara is the best RB in the league and guess what? He can’t carry the load either. Nobody should care about that. It means nothing anymore.

Lmao, ok.

RonnieT24 · Nov 24, 2020

Cowboy Lover said:
WHich ones of OUR #2 went successfully to #1 for more than one or two years?

Not trying to be confrontational....just can;t think of anyone who assumed #1 spot and tore it up for any length of time.

Murray was the one exception when he took over for Felix who took over for Barber who took over for Julius.. Murray turned out to be better than Felix and I believe had three straight 1000 yard seasons once he was elevated including obviously leading the league once.

blueblood70 · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Top tier RBs are getting away with 15 carries a game.

This theory of a bell cow back in 2020 being some great thing is silly.

Alvin Kamara is the best RB in the league and guess what? He can’t carry the load either. Nobody should care about that. It means nothing anymore.

nah not true Kamares the best or top 3 HYBRID Back in the league..there are different backs like different , I mean CM can do all that as well that rook in KC and others

possession Receivers vs Fast ones Vs Slot

Run first Qb vs pockets passers vs Hybrid qbs

Strong safetys and Fs some are rangy and can cover, others are simply better against the run other

etc etc al over the football field at every position there are different types of Players that get choses to run certain schemes and do what ever that team needs more..

Zeke a true bell cow can block, run with power, and catch the passes backs typically are expected to..Henry, Chubbs, and other's fit this mold

when you need 3 Rbs RBBC style to get all of it done and it works ok then you can do it but no way RBs are plug and play

you need to quit the daily 9-5 bickering with 12 Zoners about zeke , you wont flip the pones who have differing opinions

not just any back can be an NFl starting back..sorry that like saying a QBs or WR is plug and play and its not true..zeke was blue chip his whole life and excelled every where hes been.. when we chose him at 4 he was our identity run first OL was in sync with back and old OC

not zekes fault KM went pass happy and given cart blanch to do whatever that didnt include the run game being the focus AFTER Zeke got paid...odd w ve had zero success in years zeke wasn't featured or available his best 2 years Playoffs, no playoffs with his 2017 suspension , and 2019 they let dak be the focus and the fluffy number got us 8-8 and no playoffs..

this is not surprise its all there the defense was further exposed when the run game didnt own TOP , its been down hill from 2016 until now because the Ol the OC and well a lot around zeke changed..

cant blame zeke for wanting to get paid and he would be happy to go back to Callahan's offense because we won more when zekes featured..its all right there.. KM inserted as OC 2019 , 8-8, 1-3 start with dak and sitting at 3-7..

zeke belongs in offenses like the Browns and Titans not whatever KM has been trying to do and thats not on zeke..

running backs are not dime dozen that the worst narrative ive ever heard.. you maybe be able to do without just one great back but that doesnt make the one bell cow back extinct..see titans and browns and even ravens to an extent where running was winning games..

if thats where Jerry and KM wanted to go to a RBBC then they shouldnt have paid Zeke, ill agree but blaming zeke for the drop off is ignorant, hed still be zeke in the offense he was drafted to run..

RonnieT24 · Nov 24, 2020

CATCH17 said:
Top tier RBs are getting away with 15 carries a game.

This theory of a bell cow back in 2020 being some great thing is silly.

Alvin Kamara is the best RB in the league and guess what? He can’t carry the load either. Nobody should care about that. It means nothing anymore.

This is patently false.. Henry is averaging 22.9 totes a game.. Cook is averaging 22.3 Josh Jacobs is averaging 19.9. Zeke and Robinson are averaging just over 17. Ronald Jones of the Bucs is the only one of the top 6 rushers who is averaging 15 a game. Kamara and his 53.1 yards/game is the best in the league.. Dude has more reception yards than he does as a runner.. Yeah.. sure..

G2 · Nov 24, 2020

Some fans will literally say anything. Lol.

CowboyFrog · Nov 24, 2020

blueblood70 said:
nah not true Kamares the best or top 3 HYBRID Back in the league..there are different backs like different , I mean CM can do all that as well that rook in KC and others

possession Receivers vs Fast ones Vs Slot

Run first Qb vs pockets passers vs Hybrid qbs

Strong safetys and Fs some are rangy and can cover, others are simply better against the run other

etc etc al over the football field at every position there are different types of Players that get choses to run certain schemes and do what ever that team needs more..

Zeke a true bell cow can block, run with power, and catch the passes backs typically are expected to..Henry, Chubbs, and other's fit this mold

when you need 3 Rbs RBBC style to get all of it done and it works ok then you can do it but no way RBs are plug and play

you need to quit the daily 9-5 bickering with 12 Zoners about zeke , you wont flip the pones who have differing opinions

not just any back can be an NFl starting back..sorry that like saying a QBs or WR is plug and play and its not true..zeke was blue chip his whole life and excelled every where hes been.. when we chose him at 4 he was our identity run first OL was in sync with back and old OC

not zekes fault KM went pass happy and given cart blanch to do whatever that didnt include the run game being the focus AFTER Zeke got paid...odd w ve had zero success in years zeke wasn't featured or available his best 2 years Playoffs, no playoffs with his 2017 suspension , and 2019 they let dak be the focus and the fluffy number got us 8-8 and no playoffs..

this is not surprise its all there the defense was further exposed when the run game didnt own TOP , its been down hill from 2016 until now because the Ol the OC and well a lot around zeke changed..

cant blame zeke for wanting to get paid and he would be happy to go back to Callahan's offense because we won more when zekes featured..its all right there.. KM inserted as OC 2019 , 8-8, 1-3 start with dak and sitting at 3-7..

zeke belongs in offenses like the Browns and Titans not whatever KM has been trying to do and thats not on zeke..

running backs are not dime dozen that the worst narrative ive ever heard.. you maybe be able to do without just one great back but that doesnt make the one bell cow back extinct..see titans and browns and even ravens to an extent where running was winning games..

if thats where Jerry and KM wanted to go to a RBBC then they shouldnt have paid Zeke, ill agree but blaming zeke for the drop off is ignorant, hed still be zeke in the offense he was drafted to run..

Catch actually just wants a rebuild from the 2016 team...he is consistent on this and there is some logic to what he says, I don't agree with alot of it but alot of what he says is true. Your consistant winning Franchise have not paid a bell cow RB since the league changed rules to favor scoring. And getting lucky with a drafted QB is the cheapest way to build a team....Again i see his point I just personally think we can win with these players, so we disagree. You are 100% correct on paying Zeke, again I'm not saying don't pick Lamb but why pay the RB and get a 3rd WR with your top pick...its sending mixed signals..lol

blueblood70 · Nov 24, 2020

CowboyFrog said:
Catch actually just wants a rebuild from the 2016 team...he is consistent on this and there is some logic to what he says, I don't agree with alot of it but alot of what he says is true. Your consistant winning Franchise have not paid a bell cow RB since the league changed rules to favor scoring. And getting lucky with a drafted QB is the cheapest way to build a team....Again i see his point I just personally think we can win with these players, so we disagree. You are 100% correct on paying Zeke, again I'm not saying don't pick Lamb but why pay the RB and get a 3rd WR with your top pick...its sending mixed signals..lol

sure but its NOT ZEKES FAULT his payday Coincided with Moore's hiring and changing the identity, which HAS NOT WORKED OUT YET and also began the OL Injury issues and staff change..

puffy passing numbers hasn't led to wins..

so get off zeke bashing and blame whos to blame the FO, the OC etc etc they somehow Paid for Lifted 4X4 with Twin turbos and giant tires to live out in the high country and decided they wanted to move to the city and needs a few Priuses' :huh:

..

if you want trade that in you will be upside down and lose money..again this is not zekes fault they changed their directions..

Dre11 · Nov 24, 2020

lukin2006 said:
Zeke is built to be a Jerome Bettis type back...

I'm fine with that. Bettis was darn good. Zeke is not nearly as good as Bettis.

Our coaches do not know how to use these 2 backs...

But this is what happens when you hire a washed-up coach who was desperate to get back to coaching.

Zeke is no comparison to Bettie in build....lol
he also is the same type of back, Zeke is a faster more explosive Emmitt type, always falling forward, grinding for yards,breaks the occasional big run, high volume carries, although he's more of a punisher than Emmitt.

CowboyFrog · Nov 24, 2020

blueblood70 said:
sure but its NOT ZEKES FAULT his payday Coincided with Moore's hiring and changing the identity, which HAS NOT WORKED OUT YET and also began the OL Injury issues and staff change..

puffy passing numbers hasn't led to wins..

so get off zeke bashing and blame whos to blame the FO, the OC etc etc they somehow Paid for Lifted 4X4 with Twin turbos and giant tires to live out in the high country and decided they wanted to move to the city and needs a few Priuses'..

if you want trade that in you will be upside down and lose money..again this is not zekes fault they changed their directions..

I agree... again thats why I said the Lamb pick sent mixed signals to me...why did we need a 3rd WR, Lamb is great and everybit the best player on the board, but why pay Zeke when your going air raid .......On the flip side, we get everyone back next year and Maybe they run a type of run and Gun...I would love to see what Zeke could do against nickle in 90% of his situations.

RonnieT24 · Nov 24, 2020

CowboyFrog said:
Catch actually just wants a rebuild from the 2016 team...he is consistent on this and there is some logic to what he says, I don't agree with alot of it but alot of what he says is true. Your consistant winning Franchise have not paid a bell cow RB since the league changed rules to favor scoring. And getting lucky with a drafted QB is the cheapest way to build a team....Again i see his point I just personally think we can win with these players, so we disagree. You are 100% correct on paying Zeke, again I'm not saying don't pick Lamb but why pay the RB and get a 3rd WR with your top pick...its sending mixed signals..lol

I think the fallacy is his continuing insistence that there is only one single way to win it all in the NFL. As with most things in the NFL this RB don't matter thing will be cyclical.. Remember when WRs stared to get big and DBs started to get big and teams countered by drafting smaller shiftier receivers.. then DBs got smaller and the cycle started all over again. For years we heard that no NFL rushing champ had ever won a Super Bowl.. In fact I think one had never even made it to one.. then Emmitt broke that seal and won three followed by TD winning two and then Shaun Alexander not winning but getting there. I'm pretty sure Marshawn Lynch was a top 5 back (in performance and pay) when the Seahawks won.. . Sure as I sit here there is GOING to be an NFL rushing leader who is going to land in the right place at the right time and he's going to help his team win a championship or two. And as soon as that happens half the league will go back to drafting huge hogs up front and building around the running game. It might happen here .. because if we get the level of defensive play we are now getting and Dak comes back to the level he was at this team is a serious Super Bowl contender.

lukin2006 · Nov 24, 2020

Dre11 said:
Zeke is no comparison to Bettie in build....lol
he also is the same type of back, Zeke is a faster more explosive Emmitt type, always falling forward, grinding for yards,breaks the occasional big run, high volume carries, although he's more of a punish250 er than Emmitt.

LOL. Comparing Zeke to all time leading rusher...now that funny.

Bettis was 250
Zeke is 230 and growing. He better embraces the Bettis role. Because that about all he is...a bruiser that might get odd 20+ yard gain every now and again...

Zeke cannot do what Pollard does

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