What to do with David Irving

xwalker · Jan 20, 2018

northerncowboynation said:
....1'st round tender and scare other teams off or second round tender and let a team come to us offering their second round pick. Is he reliable? He wasn't reliable on the field in 2016 or off the field in 2017. Would you take an unknown commodity in a second round pick for a known (but so far unreliable) commodity?

The decision is whether they want to sign him long term after 2018. If they're not going to sign him long term, then they should take the 2nd round pick if possible because it's Irving for 1 year vs the 2nd round pick.

They could take the 2nd round pick and then sign a player like DE Ansah with the money that would be required to sign Irving long term.

DE Ansah + 2nd round pick VS Irving

DallasDW00ds0n · Jan 20, 2018

People are ready to let Irving walk, thats a joke. Hes easily one of the top 3 playmakers on this defense, and DT is a position we have VERY LITTLE depth

glimmerman · Jan 20, 2018

You don’t break the groove. Leave the band together. Taco is coming along and will make strides this year. Draft for the middle of a he Defense and let Irvin and D-Law eat qb all next year. One year deal for Irvin. Franchise tag D-Law.

ShiningStar · Jan 20, 2018

question for the smart people, if we have two 2nd rounders, can we move up in the first?

glimmerman · Jan 20, 2018

ShiningStar said:
question for the smart people, if we have two 2nd rounders, can we move up in the first?

I think if we got a second rounder for him it wouldn’t apply till next year and I think it can be used to trade. I hear this year comp picks can be used to trade with also. So if someone wants to trade in the first for our 2 second rounders then yeah.

blueblood70 · Jan 20, 2018

isn't he locked up this year anyway? no need for worrying just yet..Martin will get done, Dlaw Franchise tag and like some said end of 18 season you find a way to lock up both IF they played to the level to earn the big money..if not one walks and the other stays gets LTC ..we need to see consistency , no injury, no suspensions etc..

I'm sure the Management is aware of all this and wont just hand out LTC to these guys with their pasts..this will be prove it year for both

G2 · Jan 20, 2018

Irving is a good player. He's got a unique physical skill set and he came up up with some big plays. I liked him when he was on the field, he was fun to watch. Specifically the 7 sacks and a forced fumble he had.
That all being said he's never played an entire season of 16 games. Even a second round pick may be a slight stretch.

northerncowboynation · Jan 20, 2018

blueblood70 said:
isn't he locked up this year anyway? no need for worrying just yet..Martin will get done, Dlaw Franchise tag and like some said end of 18 season you find a way to lock up both IF they played to the level to earn the big money..if not one walks and the other stays gets LTC ..we need to see consistency , no injury, no suspensions etc..

I'm sure the Management is aware of all this and wont just hand out LTC to these guys with their pasts..this will be prove it year for both

No, he's a restricted FA with 3 years of service and more than 6 games of starting experience . So if Irving is offered a second round tender by the Boys he'll get $2.76 million in 2017 dollars, not sure what it is for 2018, higher I assume. Any team can extend an offer sheet to Irving, the Cowboys can match it or take their second round draft pick, assuming a second round tender. I'm not sure if the draft pick is awarded for the 2018 draft or 2019. Anyone? First round tenders in 2017 were $3.91 million so if a team offers a first round tender, they feel that the play justifies the compensation and most teams will shy away from a counter offer because it's either too rich or they don't want to give up a first round draft pick

northerncowboynation · Jan 20, 2018

glimmerman said:
I think if we got a second rounder for him it wouldn’t apply till next year and I think it can be used to trade. I hear this year comp picks can be used to trade with also. So if someone wants to trade in the first for our 2 second rounders then yeah.

Yes we can trade this years compensatory picks. I've heard anywhere from 2-3 players with the highest likely being a 4'th round compensation and possibly 2 sixth round. It hasn't been officially announced yet. So it could be a scenario where we package a 4'th rounder with our third to move up the board. Many different scenarios at play. Gotta find a partner to dance with first. Jerry tried everything in 2016 to move up for a QB earlier than the 4'th round. No one would dance with him

ShiningStar · Jan 20, 2018

glimmerman said:
I think if we got a second rounder for him it wouldn’t apply till next year and I think it can be used to trade. I hear this year comp picks can be used to trade with also. So if someone wants to trade in the first for our 2 second rounders then yeah.

thank you

northerncowboynation · Jan 20, 2018

So imagine the scenario where we trade our second round pick in 2018 and a second round pick awarded in 2019 for Irving, package them and move into the first round. Not a bad scenario if you can find the dance partner

Jumbo075 · Jan 20, 2018

Lane21Train said:
I’m not messing around with this 2nd rnd pick crap. I’m slapping the first one him & extending him & Lawrence next year when we have 70M in cap space. Of course this is assuming both make good on the expectation of staying healthy, out of trouble & continuing to produce. Which is alot to ask of these two.

Both of their suspensions were due to supplement use, and hidden steroids in those supplements. Neither can be shown to have purposefully violated the drug rules. So, it is easier to believe these will be one-time offenses, not habitual offenses which continue to hurt the team. If you MUST be concerned, be more concerned about injuries.

Me? I'm a happy-go-lucky optimist. I'm already predicting 19-0, and a Super Bowl Championship for next season.

Jumbo075 · Jan 20, 2018

conner01 said:
No guarantees in the draft
Just on talent the kid is a dominant player
Not many players can dominate on the edge and in the middle
The odds of matching his talent at 19 are slim and even if you did that’s just a wash with a 2nd rnd kicker
I don’t know what the other issues are and that’s really the key
We will soon know because if they put a 2nd rnd tender on him there are off the field concerns because this kid is super talented and may be the most talented player we have
Talent aside, a player not able to play doesn’t help you no matter the talent

In a recent re-draft of the 2015 draft, one guy had Irving going #12 overall. In fact, they have two Cowboys linemen who were undrafted going in the top 15 picks: Irving to the Browns at #12, and La'el Collins to the Dolphins at #14.

Jumbo075 · Jan 20, 2018

glimmerman said:
You don’t break the groove. Leave the band together. Taco is coming along and will make strides this year. Draft for the middle of a he Defense and let Irvin and D-Law eat qb all next year. One year deal for Irvin. Franchise tag D-Law.

Here is my 6-man Dline rotation for 2018

DE - DeMarcus Lawrence, Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton
DT - Vita Vea (1st round pick), David Irving, Maliek Collins.

Throw in 7th man Tyrone Crawford, who can play every position on the Dline, and you've got yourself a winning Dline.

Add a new OG in the 2nd round to fix the Oline issues.

blueblood70 · Jan 20, 2018

i guess it is win win get a 2nd rounder for him or sign him at a reasonable offer..Id lie to keep the guy likes been said draft picks are guaranteed, we know what we have in him and when healthy hes beast..

Manwiththeplan · Jan 20, 2018

Alexander said:
Hardest question of the offseason.

If I homer out and think he is dominant, I put the 1st round tender on him.

If I am a dice roller, I put the 2nd round tender on him.

I am very conflicted.

The second round tender is $2.9 million, the first round tender is $4.1 million. There is literally no benefit in putting a second round tender on him, outside of $1.2 million in cap savings. If we slap the first round tender on him, we can still deal him for a second round pick, if we find the pick acceptable. If we put a second round tender on him, we really need o hope some team picking in the 60s, doesn't front load a deal that we can't match. I'd keep him, but at least protect yourself by putting the first round tender on him, it makes no sense to not do it.

Manwiththeplan · Jan 20, 2018

Jumbo075 said:
Here is my 6-man Dline rotation for 2018

DE - DeMarcus Lawrence, Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton
DT - Vita Vea (1st round pick), David Irving, Maliek Collins.

Throw in 7th man Tyrone Crawford, who can play every position on the Dline, and you've got yourself a winning Dline.

Add a new OG in the 2nd round to fix the Oline issues.

Yea, counting on Gregory will only lead to disappointment.

Jumbo075 · Jan 20, 2018

Manwiththeplan said:
Yea, counting on Gregory will only lead to disappointment.

Hence, keeping Tyrone Crawford. Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

glimmerman · Jan 20, 2018

Jumbo075 said:
Here is my 6-man Dline rotation for 2018

DE - DeMarcus Lawrence, Randy Gregory, Taco Charlton
DT - Vita Vea (1st round pick), David Irving, Maliek Collins.

Throw in 7th man Tyrone Crawford, who can play every position on the Dline, and you've got yourself a winning Dline.

Add a new OG in the 2nd round to fix the Oline issues.

Love the line up Jumbo. But the problem is that I don’t think Gregory will be back. He has or he will fail another test and hasn’t applied for reinstatement, that’s usually for a reason. I believe he was due for it after the last game. it’s a shame. But if it was me I would have applied immediately.

Scares me to tie up Irvin with any contract longer than a year. He admitted he failed the test because his testosterone levels were to high. That don’t happen with over the counter supplements. He was juicing. I don’t care what they do as long as they pass the tests. I think something else is going on there with him and the team. His concussion lasted longer than usuals and he has had problems in the past. But man this kid can take over a game. What a talent.

D-Law for some reason I think was a one time problem with star caps or a flushing supplement which is used to mask roids in your system. Was a beast this year if we tag him this coming up season I think it will cost us around 17 million. Both him and Irvin have injury histories.

Crawford also injuries. Afraid they may part ways with Crawford. We will draft a young stud and Taco will make improvements.

I like you line up and it would be ideal along with this draft.

Jumbo075 · Jan 20, 2018

glimmerman said:
Love the line up Jumbo. But the problem is that I don’t think Gregory will be back. He has or he will fail another test and hasn’t applied for reinstatement, that’s usually for a reason. I believe he was due for it after the last game. it’s a shame. But if it was me I would have applied immediately.

Scares me to tie up Irvin with any contract longer than a year. He admitted he failed the test because his testosterone levels were to high. That don’t happen with over the counter supplements. He was juicing. I don’t care what they do as long as they pass the tests. I think something else is going on there with him and the team. His concussion lasted longer than usuals and he has had problems in the past. But man this kid can take over a game. What a talent.

D-Law for some reason I think was a one time problem with star caps or a flushing supplement which is used to mask roids in your system. Was a beast this year if we tag him this coming up season I think it will cost us around 17 million. Both him and Irvin have injury histories.

Crawford also injuries. Afraid they may part ways with Crawford. We will draft a young stud and Taco will make improvements.

I like you line up and it would be ideal along with this draft.

Until I see something official about the Cowboys releasing Gregory, I'm going to hold out hope.

What to do with David Irving

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