Moore Betta Offense - Rams Twist

ItzKelz · Jun 11, 2019

PhillySpecial said:
It's been known that McVay was using the headset in this manner since 2017. This article is from Nov. 2017.

https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/...hat-rams-play-calling-is-cheating-or-immoral/

I've also seen that McVay and Shannahan used this method with Cousins in Washington. So chances are that Shannahan does the same thing with Garappolo.

Absolutely. My point is that last season it was figured out.

buybuydandavis · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
My question to Cowboys fans is do you think this is a good system for Kellen to employ considering that most defenses had figured out how to defend this strategy?

Personally I do not. Kellen would have to add some type of twist of his own to make it effective. My first real concern with Kellen.

It's simply good tactical sense. Since the offense controls the snap, you want to be at the LOS and able to make decisions with coaching contact as long as possible. Probably works well with lots of motion.

The next twist is for the offense to snap more often before the defense fully sets.

buybuydandavis · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
Absolutely. My point is that last season it was figured out.

That the Rams got *less* effective at it toward the end of the season does not mean that provided *no* advantage to them toward the end of the season.

ItzKelz · Jun 11, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
It's simply good tactical sense. Since the offense controls the snap, you want to be at the LOS and able to make decisions with coaching contact as long as possible. Probably works well with lots of motion.

The next twist is for the offense to snap more often before the defense fully sets.

It worked perfectly. The proof is the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Until.....they got figured out and defenses stopped showing their hand. Either lining everyone up at the LOS or showing a fake alignment and changing it after Goff made the adjustment.

buybuydandavis · Jun 11, 2019

Whyjerry said:
The Cowboys offense needs to play with more tempo and deception. Been saying that for years.

Tempo was a big deal. We were often very slow getting the team to the LOS. Every second available at the LOS is to the advantage of the offense because it controls the snap.

Last year we had the ridiculous situation of Linehan calling the play to Moore calling the play to Dak.

Clown Team.

buybuydandavis · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
It worked perfectly. The proof is the Rams for the last couple of seasons. Until.....they got figured out and defenses stopped showing their hand.

But the offense has its own counter for that. Snap before the defense "shows their hand", i.e., gets set in position. If your defense isn't set, it won't be as effective.

Rockport · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
Well the problem is that it got figured out. The Bears were the first to expose them last season by not giving them anything to look at until 15 seconds were left on the play clock. By then McVay could not tell Goff what to run. Of course Goff was not and is not that great at reading defenses but I guess the positive is Dak is better than Goff in that aspect.

With a motion offense it won’t matter. And even if the defense figures out a way to counter, do you think Moore is so stupid to keep doing it? I don’t.

ItzKelz · Jun 11, 2019

buybuydandavis said:
But the offense has its own counter for that. Snap before the defense "shows their hand", i.e., gets set in position. If your defense isn't set, it won't be as effective.

IMO McVay perfected this type of offense so why couldnt he figure out how to counter it during the second half of the season?

ItzKelz · Jun 11, 2019

Rockport said:
With a motion offense it won’t matter. And even if the defense figures out a way to counter, do you think Moore is so stupid to keep doing it? I don’t.

Rams had a motion offense last season.....it was figured out. And in the biggest game of the season the blue print was perfected by a defense that was not that talented.

CATCH17 · Jun 11, 2019

Of course we should.

Being stagnant and predictable is what we need to avoid.

Getting up to the line and snapping the ball immediately is a very good thing but don't do it all the time.

The offense should control the tempo and use different sets of tempo throughout the game.

This is like highschool stuff and I can't believe we're having a discussion about this with a pro team but that is how poorly our offense has been ran.

CATCH17 · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
IMO McVay perfected this type of offense so why couldnt he figure out how to counter it during the second half of the season?

He figured it out against Dallas.

We had no clue who had the ball. Goff was a non factor in our game because of all the motion they did pre-snap and the gaps it made in our defense allowing them to run the ball.

ItzKelz · Jun 11, 2019

CATCH17 said:
He figured it out against Dallas.

We had no clue who had the ball. Goff was a non factor in our game because of all the motion they did pre-snap and the gaps it made in our defense allowing them to run the ball.

That was our coaching refusing to implement things that other teams had figured out. As much as I like Kris Richard there is not a lot of flexibility in his scheme. He does what he does. No matter what is happening in the game he will hold the players accountable for executing the defense. The problem with that concept is sometimes the coach needs to help the players by making adjustments when its obvious that execution of the norm is not working.

MojaveJT · Jun 11, 2019

All I want is wrinkles in the offense. I’m excited to see what Kellen can implement. Hopefully we see some positive change. Not that hard since we’re coming from Linehan’s dated offense.

Fire407 · Jun 11, 2019

Eanwen said:
I might have missed it but I didn't see in that article where it said Moore would be using this strategy. I would hope Moore didn't see the need because I think the Rams do it because Goff isn't good at reading defenses. You'd think that at this point Dak should be knowledgeable enough to recognize defenses and empowered enough in Moore's offense to change the play (w/o changing the formation) to something more favorable.

I'm not sure that Goff isn't good at reading defenses. It's just that McVay is better. Look at McVay's high school career as a QB on youtube and you'll see that he was phenomenal. I think Goff was good enough to recognize that we had no one spying him, and he was able to run and pick up the first down that basically ended the playoff game.

Rockport · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
Rams had a motion offense last season.....it was figured out. And in the biggest game of the season the blue print was perfected by a defense that was not that talented.

No, they just got beat by a better team.

TheMarathonContinues · Jun 11, 2019

Eanwen said:
I might have missed it but I didn't see in that article where it said Moore would be using this strategy. I would hope Moore didn't see the need because I think the Rams do it because Goff isn't good at reading defenses. You'd think that at this point Dak should be knowledgeable enough to recognize defenses and empowered enough in Moore's offense to change the play (w/o changing the formation) to something more favorable.

Goff and Prescott came in the league at the same time. I think for 3 year pros.......they read the defense about as good as one should at this point.

TheMarathonContinues · Jun 11, 2019

Rockport said:
No, they just got beat by a better team.

Sometimes that happens. Pats have a better head coach and a better team.

CowboyRoy · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
So I recently read an article that Kellen was implementing something the Rams/McVay has been using with Goff for the last couple of seasons. Which is lining up quickly and then calling in plays via walkie talkie into an earpiece right after the defense is set. Now this is something that worked quite well for Goff as he went from potential bust to a young QB with promise almost immediately after McVay implemented this strategy. However, the second half of last season most defenses seem to figure this out and instead showing their defense immediately they would wait 15 seconds before the clock ran down (which is when the ear piece in the QBs helmet is automatically shut off) before showing how they were going to line up defensively; which led to Goff looking less than stellar. Of course they still made it to the Super Bowl but the offense was obviously not the same the second half of the season.

https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas/co...ellen-moore-is-constantly-in-dak-prescott-ear

My question to Cowboys fans is do you think this is a good system for Kellen to employ considering that most defenses had figured out how to defend this strategy?

Personally I do not. Kellen would have to add some type of twist of his own to make it effective. My first real concern with Kellen.

Offense and Goff wasn't what it was the 2nd half of the season for two reasons:

1. Lost Cooper Kupp his big play WR and best WR
2. Lost Gurley which was the focal point of the offense

Goff made the big leap once he had great coaching and quality players around him. Like ANY QB, you need to be surrounded by quality talent to do your job.

buybuydandavis · Jun 11, 2019

ItzKelz said:
IMO McVay perfected this type of offense so why couldnt he figure out how to counter it during the second half of the season?

Why couldn't other teams figure out his offense sooner?

Why can't Garrett ever figure out anything?

None of these guys are perfect.

They're also dealing with players who would all have to learn execute under this new tactic mid season. Maybe McVay didn't think they were up to it.

This year, I expect McVay to fold this in to what he's doing.

Techsass · Jun 11, 2019

CowboyRoy said:
Offense and Goff wasn't what it was the 2nd half of the season for two reasons:

1. Lost Cooper Kupp his big play WR and best WR
2. Lost Gurley which was the focal point of the offense

Goff made the big leap once he had great coaching and quality players around him. Like ANY QB, you need to be surrounded by quality talent to do your job.

Does subliminal messaging actually work? Maybe it depends on your audience.

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