Stop it with the Dak contract

GhostOfPelluer

GhostOfPelluer

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This is all ridiculous. Pay the man. Most likely the real commitment will be 3 years. Even if Dak doesn't continue to improve (which is an asinine assumption), he's certainly not going to regress. If he's the same guy in 3 years that he is now, maybe you cut bait and move on. Our window is now. We don't have time to jack around and get a new QB up to speed, so we're married to Dak for at least 2019 and 2020 if we want to contend. If it doesn't work out, the whole thing will need to be blown up again by 2021-22 anyway. There is essentially no reasonable downside to getting a deal done. The money is there for him and Amari and Zeke and Jaylon and Byron (if he retains his 2018 form). It's there because they haven't gone chasing Suhs and McCoys (against my own wishes, not that they ask me) and ETs and Honey Badgers, et al. This is the window. It starts now.
 
Little Jr

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CowboyRoy said:
Which is exactly my point. They are horrid at the backup QB thing. The veterans they had were so bad it was pathetic.

There guys out there that can win you a few games every offseason.

Anything is better than the two chumps we have right now. At this rate, if Dak goes down for 2 or 3 games our playoff hopes are dashed. I see no point in keeping a couple guys on the roster that haven't even thrown a pass in a real game.

So what is your point really? Not sure I understand it. Who cares because they all suck?

Lets hope our FO isn't thinking like that.
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I'm not going to say there aren't guys out there right now that would be better than what we have. One reason, I don't know exactly what we have since one is going into his 3rd year and the other in his 2nd year. But I would have no issue with them signing a vet.


With that said, It your starting QB goes down, 9 times out of 10 you're screwed. There are examples of back ups coming in and holding it down down a few games and even fewer of backups coming in and leading the team to the playoffs. I'm not saying you don't try to improve the position if possible just like any other position but it's not at the top of my list. Vegas, fans, anylast and anyone who talks and predicts NFL seasons has never picked a team to go far because of their back up qb. At best people pick them for their coaching, starters, depth atother positions and the end of the prediction the back up QB MIGHT get a shout out. Lol
 
Cowfan75

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LatinMind said:
I read thread after thread about this AAV of 30something mil. Those that gripe about the AAV really have no idea how this team runs. And there are quite a few on here. In 2007 Romo signed a 6 yr 67.5mil deal and in 2013 he signed a 108mil deal. He never had a caphit of 10mil. Dak will never have a caphit of 34mil in any yr. They will do what they did with Romo and restructure and extend. He will not lose money but ensure he is a lifelong Cowboy. This will be structured like this because he's still so young and make so much more money then other QBs and still never strap the Cowboys cap like Romo never did.

This team is smarter then you, so let them do their jobs.
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And smarter than you.
 
Hadenough

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PAPPYDOG said:
It's possible Prescott needs Elliott, Cooper, Martin, Smith and Frederick more than Elliott, Cooper, Martin, Smith and Frederick need Prescott. "

1 of 34 millions reasons why the FO should Wait till next season for any new contract for Dak!!!!!
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Exactly! If Wentz stays healthy and Haskins and Daniel Jones turn out to be pretty good QBs Dak wont be winning the division by default anymore.
 
iceberg

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LatinMind said:
I read thread after thread about this AAV of 30something mil. Those that gripe about the AAV really have no idea how this team runs. And there are quite a few on here. In 2007 Romo signed a 6 yr 67.5mil deal and in 2013 he signed a 108mil deal. He never had a caphit of 10mil. Dak will never have a caphit of 34mil in any yr. They will do what they did with Romo and restructure and extend. He will not lose money but ensure he is a lifelong Cowboy. This will be structured like this because he's still so young and make so much more money then other QBs and still never strap the Cowboys cap like Romo never did.

This team is smarter then you, so let them do their jobs.
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most in here are fans who are going to talk about it regardless. let them do their jobs. :)
 
xwalker

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LatinMind said:
In 2007 Romo signed a 6 yr 67.5mil deal and in 2013 he signed a 108mil deal. He never had a caphit of 10mil. Dak will never have a caphit of 34mil in any yr.
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Wrong!

Romo did have cap hits over 10M.
Year ….. Cap Hit
2013 ….. $11,818,835.00
2014 ….. $11,773,000.00
2015 ….. $14,973,000.00
2016 ….. $20,835,000.00 (his last season on the team)
2017 ….. $10,700,000.00
2018 ….. $8,900,000.00
 
glimmerman

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xwalker said:
Wrong!

Romo did have cap hits over 10M.
Year ….. Cap Hit
2013 ….. $11,818,835.00
2014 ….. $11,773,000.00
2015 ….. $14,973,000.00
2016 ….. $20,835,000.00 (his last season on the team)
2017 ….. $10,700,000.00
2018 ….. $8,900,000.00
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How much guaranteed money did he get. Are we still paying him.
 
xwalker

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LatinMind said:
I read thread after thread about this AAV of 30something mil. Those that gripe about the AAV really have no idea how this team runs. And there are quite a few on here. In 2007 Romo signed a 6 yr 67.5mil deal and in 2013 he signed a 108mil deal. He never had a caphit of 10mil. Dak will never have a caphit of 34mil in any yr. They will do what they did with Romo and restructure and extend. He will not lose money but ensure he is a lifelong Cowboy. This will be structured like this because he's still so young and make so much more money then other QBs and still never strap the Cowboys cap like Romo never did.

This team is smarter then you, so let them do their jobs.
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Even if your Romo numbers had not been wrong, your concept is also wrong.

The key number for any team with regards to player contracts is Average Cap Cost per year of service.

If Dak gets a 34M per year contract, plays to the end of that contract and then retires, then:
His Average Cap Cost per year of service would be 34M (on that contract).
​
It does not matter how much is pushed forward to keep early year cap hits low.

It does not matter how much is eventually pushed into years when the player is not on the team (19.6M total for Romo in the 2 years after he retired).

ALL cap dollars used on a player are cap dollars that cannot be used on other players.

Example
A 2-year, 40M contract could be structured as follows:
Pay-as-you-go structure
Year 1: 20M
Year 2: 20M​
Borrow from the future structure
Year 1: 10M
Year 2: 30M​

With the borrow from the future structure:
The team gets 10M of "extra cap space" in year 1 to sign other players; however...
The team gets 10M less cap space to sign other players in year 2.
Even if they push 10M into year 3 and the player is gone, that's 10M that would have been zero.​
 
xwalker

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glimmerman said:
How much guaranteed money did he get. Are we still paying him.
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1. They were not still paying him in 2017 and 2018. They were just taking cap hits for money paid previously.

2. Generally 2 years is the most that will be impacted after a player is gone.
 
xwalker

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Pompey-Cowboy said:
Nice OP. I just wish he'd hurry up and sign something already so we can focus on something else.
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northerncowboynation said:
Amen brother Latin
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rocyaice said:
Latin as the voice of reason. Thank you.
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The problem is that his explanation on why you shouldn't worry was completely wrong.

The reason not to worry is that a contract averaging 34M will be about 15% of the average of the NFL cap over that time frame.

Structuring the contract for low cap hits in early years is not really relevant.


I could tell you not to worry because the Sun will come up tomorrow.

Then I could explain that it was going to fall but Alien's have a plan to push it back up using Telekinesis.
 
xwalker

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sunalsorises said:
The Romo contract didn't hurt the Cowboys until it did. There were a couple of dead money years where the expectation was Romo would play until age 40. Finding Dak in the fourth round helped offset that, though.
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It did impact them.

If he signed for 10M less per year because he wanted to win a Super Bowl, they might have kept Ware for 2014 (or signed a replacement).

They ended up losing to the Packers by 5 points in the 2014 season playoffs. Ware (or a replacement) could easily have been the difference (The DEs were George Selvie and Jeremy Mincey).
 
John813

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glimmerman said:
How much guaranteed money did he get. Are we still paying him.
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55mil GTD originally.

They restructured his recently signed extension in 14 and in 15, lowering his base salary to roughly 1 million each year and designating the remaining base into a signing bonus giving them up front cap relief.
Now of course with each restructure, the amount converted into a signing bonus is divided by the remaining years left on the contract and is added to the future cap hits for the player, and are designated as prorated bonuses in cap terms. So, when it came to cutting him in 17, they designated him as a June 1st cut to spread out the huge dead cap over two years instead of one big hit for the 17-18 year. Hypothetically, if they never restructured his deal, the dead cap in 17 would of been less than it was. But, they had to restructure him and others like Lee and Scandrick some years to get under the cap or to have the ability to re-sign McClain(Ro) or Greg Hardy.

Last year was the last of his "dead cap". Actual salary to him hasn't been paid in years to him.
 
glimmerman

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John813 said:
55mil GTD originally.

They restructured his recently signed extension in 14 and in 15, lowering his base salary to roughly 1 million each year and designating the remaining base into a signing bonus giving them up front cap relief.
Now of course with each restructure, the amount converted into a signing bonus is divided by the remaining years left on the contract and is added to the future cap hits for the player, and are designated as prorated bonuses in cap terms. So, when it came to cutting him in 17, they designated him as a June 1st cut to spread out the huge dead cap over two years instead of one big hit for the 17-18 year. Hypothetically, if they never restructured his deal, the dead cap in 17 would of been less than it was. But, they had to restructure him and others like Lee and Scandrick some years to get under the cap or to have the ability to re-sign McClain(Ro) or Greg Hardy.

Last year was the last of his "dead cap". Actual salary to him hasn't been paid in years to him.
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wow.. you are smart.. Thanks for the info...
 
LatinMind

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xwalker said:
Wrong!

Romo did have cap hits over 10M.
Year ….. Cap Hit
2013 ….. $11,818,835.00
2014 ….. $11,773,000.00
2015 ….. $14,973,000.00
2016 ….. $20,835,000.00 (his last season on the team)
2017 ….. $10,700,000.00
2018 ….. $8,900,000.00
Click to expand...
2013-2015
he restructured and he was at about 8mil

2016
he was over 10 but they were already set for the season. 13-3
 
LatinMind

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xwalker said:
Even if your Romo numbers had not been wrong, your concept is also wrong.

The key number for any team with regards to player contracts is Average Cap Cost per year of service.

If Dak gets a 34M per year contract, plays to the end of that contract and then retires, then:
His Average Cap Cost per year of service would be 34M (on that contract).
​
It does not matter how much is pushed forward to keep early year cap hits low.

It does not matter how much is eventually pushed into years when the player is not on the team (19.6M total for Romo in the 2 years after he retired).

ALL cap dollars used on a player are cap dollars that cannot be used on other players.

Example
A 2-year, 40M contract could be structured as follows:
Pay-as-you-go structure
Year 1: 20M
Year 2: 20M​
Borrow from the future structure
Year 1: 10M
Year 2: 30M​

With the borrow from the future structure:
The team gets 10M of "extra cap space" in year 1 to sign other players; however...
The team gets 10M less cap space to sign other players in year 2.
Even if they push 10M into year 3 and the player is gone, that's 10M that would have been zero.​
Click to expand...

its amazing how you take something simple and try to over explain where you make no sense. Its as simple as this. This team knows how to manage a QB caphit. Romo was never the issue. It was always the overpaying older talent, like the ratliff, bradie james, ect...

With how this team is structured Dak will never be a issue. Because theyre not going and signing the expensive FAs but rather replacing players with rookies. And its working because they are drafting so well.

Dallas has learned from their mistakes, all you have to do is look at the contracts of Tyron, Lee, and Frederick. Where they took small SB that allowed the team to restructure and still never be strapped. Tyron has 5 yrs left on his deal and after this yr will never be over 13.5mil. And they can get out of his deal this offseason with only 5mil in dead money. Same kind of structuring with Frederick and Lee. This team is doing good. Let the do it.
 
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