10UP: The almost unused personnel package that is going to be big for the Cowboys in 2018

[Seven]

Ok thanks for the input I guess

We can't use them as examples. Data sample is almost non-existent.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That's not what the article said. It isn't talking about 4 wide sets, it's talking about 10 personnel. We went 4 wide out of 01 personnel.

The article talked about how Witten was in on nearly EVERY play. Hence the 4 and 5 WR sets were not part of what we did. altough I know they set Witten up wide as a WR in some instances so they did actually do the formation. But it just goes to show another level of predictability with the team. Thier over use of the or lack there of of certain personnel groupings.

 

[Flamma]

I'm not crazy about the 10 formations because you really need good WRs that can break open quick. The greatest show on turf were able to use this and get the ball out. I'm just not sure we can.

 

[Bullflop]

Good stuff here, waving monkey . . . I had almost forgotten about Olawale being such a good receiver out of the backfield. That will add a highly useful weapon to our arsenal, come to think of it. Our RB corps will be one for the books this year, I do believe. Can't wait for the season to begin.

 

[waldoputty]

Been saying that for awhile. We need to run more 10 personnel. Why? Because it makes other teams defend the pass with their speed guys. They go small with our small, Zeke is one of the best blocking backs in the league or they drop back in coverage and we run Zeke at them. Let the small handle Zeke. We have the O-line for power ball and a runner in Dak. That opens up a whole new bunch of options. Especially read options

i remember discussing this in 2016 but back then, the 2 TE / 1TE sets had better running results than the 10 personnel. probably because zeke was a new thing and defenses had not had an offseason to respond to zeke and dak. also because tsmith was tsmith.

 

[CowboyFanInLexKy]

Jason Witten achieved near-iconic status with the Dallas Cowboys. Heck, maybe that is understating it. Among his many achievements, one that stands out is the 197 consecutive games he played in, the record for tight ends. He was a real iron man, and to have missed only one game (in his rookie season) to injury is remarkable, especially for a player who saw plenty of contact.

And it wasn’t just that he didn’t miss games. He was on the field for nearly every offensive snap, especially in the latter years of his career. It was a testament to his drive and his firm belief that the team always had a better chance with him out there.

However, that may not have been the case as his production began a slow but steady decline in recent years. Having a tight end on the field means you have to leave another player, usually a wide receiver, on the bench. It also was one of the most predictable aspects of the Dallas offense, and predictability has been seen as a flaw for the Cowboys, especially last season.

But Witten is now gone. And while he certainly leaves a void behind, his move into broadcasting also opens up a new opportunity for the staff to use something they were basically unable to while Witten was with the team and apparently able to dictate his own use to the coaches.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...is-going-to-be-big-for-dallas-cowboys-in-2018

I think with Dez gone and now Whitten, there's no reason for Linehan and Garrett not to be on the heatseat... Now we're going to see just what these coaches are truly made of...

 

[Hennessy_King]

Makes me feel better that this coaching staff dumbed down the offense for a Tight End. LOL this staff blows.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

We can't use them as examples. Data sample is almost non-existent.

The lack of data is in itself a data point. He wasn't good enough to get on the field to show us some data.

I mean, you're not wrong, we lack the data. But that's just how it goes when you replace someone. We didn't have any more data on any draft pick because they didn't play in the NFL yet, either.

Personally, I'm just fine looking at the lack of data and concluding Swaim cannot replace a first ballot hall of famer in a TE-centric system. If you think it's worth trying then that's just a difference of opinion but I'll be really disappointed in our staff if they trot out an offense designed with Witten in mind when they don't have Witten.

 

[Seven]

The lack of data is in itself a data point. He wasn't good enough to get on the field to show us some data.

I mean, you're not wrong, we lack the data. But that's just how it goes when you replace someone. We didn't have any more data on any draft pick because they didn't play in the NFL yet, either.

Personally, I'm just fine looking at the lack of data and concluding Swaim cannot replace a first ballot hall of famer in a TE-centric system. If you think it's worth trying then that's just a difference of opinion but I'll be really disappointed in our staff if they trot out an offense designed with Witten in mind when they don't have Witten.

Who wasn't good enough to get on the field? And there is NO WAY we can say that. Dallas had an unusual situation where they kept trotting Witten out there when he was done 3-4 years ago.

So.........that lack of data isn't data. It's Witten not knowing when to quit and coaches that allowed him to do it.

We have preseason, that's it and I generally don't count that.

No three year guy who wasn't allowed to play will EVER replace a HOF tightend. That's just silly.

And, if you ask me, Witten played those last few years to ensure he got the gold jacket. He damn sure wasn't getting on playoff and SB victories.

And of course it's worth trying......that's why the NFL has a draft.

An offense designed for Witten is a joke. Dallas wold be 0-16. No one plays that slow.

C'mon man. You're grasping here.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

Who wasn't good enough to get on the field? And there is NO WAY we can say that. Dallas had an unusual situation where they kept trotting Witten out there when he was done 3-4 years ago.

So.........that lack of data isn't data. It's Witten not knowing when to quit and coaches that allowed him to do it.

We have preseason, that's it and I generally don't count that.

No three year guy who wasn't allowed to play will EVER replace a HOF tightend. That's just silly.

And, if you ask me, Witten played those last few years to ensure he got the gold jacket. He damn sure wasn't getting on playoff and SB victories.

And of course it's worth trying......that's why the NFL has a draft.

An offense designed for Witten is a joke. Dallas wold be 0-16. No one plays that slow.

C'mon man. You're grasping here.

I don't think I'm invested enough to grasp.

You make good points. I think this conversation has become too focused on Witten and his production, though. I didn't mean to go that route but I did anyways.

I think my earlier statements about Witten's role philosophically were applied in a play-to-play sense and you're right, it clashes there. An "offense designed around Witten" probably would go nearly 0-16 right now.

What I meant when I said that was "an offense designed such that one of our core principles is that we can always rely on our TE1 to bring skill sets A, B, C to the game". They had total faith in him, and I think rightly so.

Not so much that he's a focal point. They knew his skill sets. They knew they could count on him to reliably do those things every weekend. Therefore, he grew into a core piece. His role in every situation has been specially built into the playbook because why not when you, as a coach, can count on this talent every game?

So here's my point I wanted to make at the beginning. When someone is fitted to the offense and good at everything they're asked to do, the most influential voice in the locker room, they won't leave the field often.

So there you are on game day and you have to choose who that 11th man is and on one hand you've got Ryan Switzer and on the other a vital cog of the offensive scheme for over a decade.

I just don't think we should be surprised that A) he got so many snaps, because his value over replacement was so significant and B) the game plan may change suddenly, because the front office activities at WR this offseason indicate a realization that the departure of Witten and Dez (among others) presents an opportunity for a retooling.

Personally I hope some huge tweaks are coming. It is a good opportunity for it and our scheme is stale and predictable. We got 15 different #2 receivers for **** sake, use them instead of Swaim.

 

[Billyd]

TWO years ago, both tightendz were blocking and in the pattern and it was used effectively by the Cowboys..With Witten and Swaim.. Relax gents..This is speculation by analysts...Swaim is once again alot better than you know. LAST YEAR they kept the Tends in to block because of the fraudline@Green!

TIGHTEND from the scheme as say
2Wr1TE
2TE

THE reason why we get jumbo is of course to strong the run to one side or pull a guard and use the tight end to fill, or power the weak side or strongside, provide lanes etc..Witten was able to take care of his blocking duties and slip off into the pattern..

IT can also be effective against 3/4 defenses as say a way to combat sneaky subs adding 8-9 in the box.When you have a good oline and TEs working with them, i say bring your extra personelle..We contain it, get a rb past the line of scrimmage and all he has to beat is two people..

If Your two tightends can receive and block effectively, then it gets even better..That is why the Cowboys always try to engage the 22.. Passing out of it problematic when your oline is weak, or blocking by a Te is subpar..That is why they freak about any TE, BLOWING THEIR ASSIGNMENTS..

 

[DasSchnitzel]

TWO years ago, both tightendz were blocking and in the pattern and it was used effectively by the Cowboys..With Witten and Swaim.. Relax gents..This is speculation by analysts...Swaim is once again alot better than you know. LAST YEAR they kept the Tends in to block because of the fraudline@Green!

I'm not saying Swaim is terrible, I'm just saying he's not Jason Witten!

And I'm not repeating analysts, I'm stating my opinion poorly.

 

[Billyd]

Lol..Its okay, how could you always know what the offensive players are doing, off the ball..I just happened to see Swaim and his first year in preseason..Got a good look at what he is capable of catching the ball, and realized that Texas underutilzed him in the passing game, but he was a monster in the Running game. DALLAS traded away a 7 in the following years draft to take him. Witten imparted knowledge on him and they had a good run until SWAIM GOT HURT against Pittsburgh. I think either during or right after swaim made a awesome seal and busted Zeke for a long td ...He played all games last year...

 

[DasSchnitzel]

That last part you added after I posted, about the reliance on reliable blockers that can slip into a route and the blocking in general, that's what I'm talking about.

Without Witten that's all less reliable and is an example of something that necessitates both a scheme/concept change now and his presence on field in the past.

Even if Swaim can do it, that's still a change from 2 TE who can down to 1 so what if someone needs a break or its a situation that might have had 2 TE last year

 

[Seven]

TWO years ago, both tightendz were blocking and in the pattern and it was used effectively by the Cowboys..With Witten and Swaim.. Relax gents..This is speculation by analysts...Swaim is once again alot better than you know. LAST YEAR they kept the Tends in to block because of the fraudline@Green!

TIGHTEND from the scheme as say
2Wr1TE
2TE

THE reason why we get jumbo is of course to strong the run to one side or pull a guard and use the tight end to fill, or power the weak side or strongside, provide lanes etc..Witten was able to take care of his blocking duties and slip off into the pattern..

IT can also be effective against 3/4 defenses as say a way to combat sneaky subs adding 8-9 in the box.When you have a good oline and TEs working with them, i say bring your extra personelle..We contain it, get a rb past the line of scrimmage and all he has to beat is two people..

If Your two tightends can receive and block effectively, then it gets even better..That is why the Cowboys always try to engage the 22.. Passing out of it problematic when your oline is weak, or blocking by a Te is subpar..That is why they freak about any TE, BLOWING THEIR ASSIGNMENTS..

I said Swaim would be the starter this year....last year.

 

[Doomsday]

I am hoping Swain, Schultz or Jarwin can fill in for Witten on 1st and 2nd downs, and Rico is able to come in on third down to give them a big receiving target over the middle.

No one player is going to take over JW's role, but if they can get production out of 2 or 3 players the offense be fine.

 

[Seven]

I don't think I'm invested enough to grasp.

You make good points. I think this conversation has become too focused on Witten and his production, though. I didn't mean to go that route but I did anyways.

I think my earlier statements about Witten's role philosophically were applied in a play-to-play sense and you're right, it clashes there. An "offense designed around Witten" probably would go nearly 0-16 right now.

What I meant when I said that was "an offense designed such that one of our core principles is that we can always rely on our TE1 to bring skill sets A, B, C to the game". They had total faith in him, and I think rightly so.

Witten brought A...knowledge/work ethic. B....wasn't that great of a blocker, IMO and C...there really is no "C".

So here's my point I wanted to make at the beginning. When someone is fitted to the offense and good at everything they're asked to do, the most influential voice in the locker room, they won't leave the field often.

Your insights are appreciated. And astute as well. I like that and thank you.

That's my point and damn shame on the coaches ESPECIALLY Garrett. You got guys waiting in the wing to develope behind a FIFTEEN year vet........they had better get some playing time. They didn't and now Dallas knows nothing about them....especially us fans.

So there you are on game day and you have to choose who that 11th man is and on one hand you've got Ryan Switzer and on the other a vital cog of the offensive scheme for over a decade.

The 11th man won't be Switzer. He's gone. It should've been one of the tight ends getting some reps. Period.

I just don't think we should be surprised that A) he got so many snaps, because his value over replacement was so significant and B) the game plan may change suddenly, because the front office activities at WR this offseason indicate a realization that the departure of Witten and Dez (among others) presents an opportunity for a retooling.

Yes we should be surprised. Again he was loooonnngg in the tooth and interfered with development. Dallas is rebuilding and they keep Witten on the field for extended periods? Sorry, Witt.......we need you sharing that tribal knowledge.

Of course the game plan will change.....hopefully, but now it's going to be a slower transition because they couldn't cut the cord with Witten.

Personally I hope some huge tweaks are coming. It is a good opportunity for it and our scheme is stale and predictable. We got 15 different #2 receivers for **** sake, use them instead of Swaim.

Tweaks have been coming. New secondary. New D-Line New QB and RB. Dez is gone. Witten is gone. Leary is gone. It's been happening right in front of your eyes and losing Witten and Dez, IMO is a good thing. They just waited to long to prepare.

 

[AdamJT13]

Well, there might just be one now: Dallas.

Interesting. In fact, I'd dare say innovative if they end up building an offense around rarely used tactics.

Let's hope this is good innovation (the light bulb) and not bad innovation (the hundreds of failed light bulbs before they figured it out).

What's your opinion? I think it could work with how our OLINE is built and the types of receivers we have now.

I wouldn't be opposed to using it, I just don't think we will use it more than most teams already do. I've always thought we should spread the field more often when we want to run, but we've always tended to clog the middle of the field with more blockers instead.

 

[CCBoy]

I wouldn't be opposed to using it, I just don't think we will use it more than most teams already do. I've always thought we should spread the field more often when we want to run, but we've always tended to clog the middle of the field with more blockers instead.

There's something in the psychic that is still awed or defeated by the closeness of a huge mass attacking in unison and with power...football, despite frills and thrills.

 

[CCBoy]

I think with Dez gone and now Whitten, there's no reason for Linehan and Garrett not to be on the heatseat... Now we're going to see just what these coaches are truly made of...

Keep the barrels hot and pass the ammo!