2007 set us back a decade

[KJJ]

You are posting stuff you clearly are incorrect about.

1. Jimmy didn't identify offensive guys to recruit at Miami. He recruited and scouted Defense. I know because I know guys he recruited out of Dallas and who came to watch us play in High School. He did close big-time recruits but no college coach at that level is his own scout and recruiter. I played for a coach on that staff in college btw.

As far as Jimmy's college recruiting goes I certainly haven't researched how he went about it but he didn't have any players on his team college or pro he wasn't sold on. That's the point I keep trying to make and you have yet to refute.

2. Jimmy HIMSELF wrote about his relationship with Troy and how he mended things by trading Walsh and getting Aikman into salt water fish.

3. It wasn't Bayless but Mike Fisher who wrote the majority of the stuff and it came straight from Jerry's mouth. But Bob Ackles backs up the Troy Aikman thought process as does Aikman himself. Jimmy
"in the room" argued for Tony Mandarich because he was taking Walsh as his starting QB. Jerry told him no way; those Aikman jerseys are already printed. Jerry was still in loan h#ll and needed the money. Troy either did ask or was about to ask for a trade depending upon which version of that story you believe. He didn't want to play for Jimmy.

How about showing me some articles on this? Jimmy and Troy may have had a rocky relationship in the beginning but there would have been no relationship had Jimmy called Troy a loser. Jimmy would have looked like an idiot saying something like that then going ahead and drafting Troy with the #1 overall pick. You're saying the majority of the stuff was "wrote" by Mike Fisher but my point is it was still WROTE. Just because something is written doesn't make it true. I don't care what came from Jerry's mouth show me some proof it came from Jimmy's mouth find a quote with the link. You're just posting rumors and things you've read because I haven't heard any of this about Jimmy wanting Mandarich. Go find some articles that back all this and let's see how credible the sources are.

4.After their rookie season the entire staff believed in Walsh more. Walsh QB'd the lone win over defending SB champ Wash. Only 2 people chose Aikman over Walsh as starter. Ackles and the QB Coach. Both would soon be jettisoned and they weren't Jimmy guys. Jimmy was able to trade off Walsh for an insane return largely because he sold him as a winner and champion and believed that.

Okay, explain this if the "entire" staff except for 2 people who were shipped off because they weren't Jimmy guys believed in Walsh more than Aikman how come Aikman was kept as the starter and Walsh was the one traded? Someone wrote Jimmy never wanted Aikman because he was a loser so why did he keep Aikman? The Cowboys could have gotten darn near a Walker deal for Aikman because he was more highly rated than the weaker armed Steve Walsh who many had questions about as an NFL QB. If Jimmy believed Aikman was a loser and Walsh was a winner and a champion and believed what he was selling the Saints he would have sent Aikman packing and not Walsh...case closed!

7. Jimmy never signed a single player to the Dallas Cowboys. Jerry always did that and always had final say. He has shown the written contract saying exactly that to the media a few times now. Jimmy was his own GM EXCEPT where money was involved. With the top signing Jerry was looking at dollars and cents. Just as he did when they traded Herschel. Jimmy and Jerry used to go jog every day and that day Jerry was fuming mad about Herschel's demand for "QB money". Jimmy took that info and went out and fleeced Minny. But again see it is never just one-sided. Both guys had a hand in that move. It started because of money.

I never said he did Jimmy told Jerry what players he needed and Jerry opened his check book and signed them. Jerry may have had the final say but Jimmy got the players he wanted if it could be worked out via trade or draft. Like I said the Cowboys didn't draft or trade for players Jimmy wasn't on board with. As for Walker Jimmy didn't like his north/south running style. He had no wiggle and wasn't a slashing type runner and was running straight into piles. Jimmy could see they weren't winning with him and decided to deal him off for a bunch of picks and players. The Walker trade had nothing to do with money demands by Walker Jerry and Jimmy wanted to WIN and needed a lot of players! Where did you read all this the National Enquirer?? Post some articles!

 

[punchnjudy]

Champions aren't defined by their holes (or lack thereof); they're defined by their dominance. The Giants have almost as many holes as we do, but their dominance in one key area combined with proficiency in others propelled them to the top.

Dallas doesn't need to be dominant in the exact style as the latest flavor of the 7 months, but if they were dominant anywhere last year I missed it. The offense was held at or below 20 points far too often and the defense's problems were well documented. The secondary was a sieve and I doubt there's a personnel guy on this planet who would call our front seven dominant even though they were pretty good. Certainly nobody would compare them to the Giants.

With that said, it's easy to see how Dallas could become dominant on offense if Miles returns to form and the ol is significantly strengthened. The defense should be pretty decent. Woicik will help. A healthy Murray should help. A real fulllback should help. If they were any other team I would still feel like they were a team to watch, but also a team that could go either way. OK, that's true in many places, but the potential variance here seems high even by NFL standards.

 

[jterrell]

As far as Jimmy's college recruiting goes I certainly haven't researched how he went about it but he didn't have any players on his team college or pro he wasn't sold on. That's the point I keep trying to make and you have yet to refute.




How about showing me some articles on this? Jimmy and Troy may have had a rocky relationship in the beginning but there would have been no relationship had Jimmy called Troy a loser. Jimmy would have looked like an idiot saying something like that then going ahead and drafting Troy with the #1 overall pick. You're saying the majority of the stuff was "wrote" by Mike Fisher but my point is it was still WROTE. Just because something is written doesn't make it true. I don't care what came from Jerry's mouth show me some proof it came from Jimmy's mouth find a quote with the link. You're just posting rumors and things you've read because I haven't heard any of this about Jimmy wanting Mandarich. Go find some articles that back all this and let's see how credible the sources are.




Okay, explain this if the "entire" staff except for 2 people who were shipped off because they weren't Jimmy guys believed in Walsh more than Aikman how come Aikman was kept as the starter and Walsh was the one traded? Someone wrote Jimmy never wanted Aikman because he was a loser so why did he keep Aikman? The Cowboys could have gotten darn near a Walker deal for Aikman because he was more highly rated than the weaker armed Steve Walsh who many had questions about as an NFL QB. If Jimmy believed Aikman was a loser and Walsh was a winner and a champion and believed what he was selling the Saints he would have sent Aikman packing and not Walsh...case closed!



I never said he did Jimmy told Jerry what players he needed and Jerry opened his check book and signed them. Jerry may have had the final say but Jimmy got the players he wanted if it could be worked out via trade or draft. Like I said the Cowboys didn't draft or trade for players Jimmy wasn't on board with. As for Walker Jimmy didn't like his north/south running style. He had no wiggle and wasn't a slashing type runner and was running straight into piles. Jimmy could see they weren't winning with him and decided to deal him off for a bunch of picks and players. The Walker trade had nothing to do with money demands by Walker Jerry and Jimmy wanted to WIN and needed a lot of players! Where did you read all this the National Enquirer?? Post some articles!

Are you really so daft as to ask for articles from 1989-90?
If you were a Cowboys fan living in Dallas and listening to talk radio you would have heard most of this. If you read the autobiographies of the players and coaches and Jerry you'd have heard the rest. It's been 20 years so I can point you directions but that's it.

You made one set of assumptions which I tell you are wrong and you want proof; yet have zero reason for believing what you do....

Jerry and Jimmy both want or at least wanted credit for basically everything but after years of hearing stories and looking at facts it is pretty clear. Dave Campo and other Jimmy guys who stayed in Dallas cleared up a lot of it in various speaking engagements like weekly radio shows.

Jerry thought he was a serious draft day genius because he fought for Troy... but he didn't pick him based on talent. He picked a blond-haired blue-eyed jersey selling machine. He wanted credit for forcing the Walsh trade but Jimmy did the work there and brought back a great return for a crappy QB talent. Would Jimmy have taken Aikman anyways? Hard to think he would considering 1 month later he selected Walsh with the first overall pick of the supplemental draft. No other team had a shot at him ever. Jimmy knew he'd have him before he ever took Aikman.

Walsh was taken with our r1 supp pick which turned into the 1st overall pick the next season. Recall we won 1 crappy game that first year. But he did get back a 1,2,3 from the Saints in a trade coup.

Jimmy loved evaluating NFL talent and he found it in almost every round. Especially early on when his coaches were fresh on the best players they had recruited. But it did kill him that Jerry had ties to Aikman and Irvin that ran so deep. He was spending 80+ hours per week solely on football while Jerry was doing business deals and (re)growing the brand. Both guys loved to drink and brag. They just started resenting each other mightily.

Aikman v. Walsh: Aikman won the vote of Jerry, Ackles(the Landry era pro personnel director) and the QB Coach. Jimmy didn't vote at all; he conducted the poll. He decided the guys who worked with the QBs were probably right and knew he had to make a firm decision. He did and went with Aikman but not at all without a lot of bad blood. Jimmy purged the QB Coach (and scrub Coordinator David Shula) that off-season who Troy had ties with in BP fashion (fired David Lee because he was too cuddly with Romo). Norv Turner came in that off-season and was the guy Troy really loved. He didn't have Jimmy introduce him in Canton. Neither did Irvin. OR Emmitt. Who exactly has Jimmy presented?

End of the day Jimmy claims he left Dallas because he wanted to return to South Florida. He obviously did end up there and hasn't left so whose to disbelieve him. Jerry said he could win a super bowl with any of 200 coaches and well he did. Good thing he didn't say he could win 2 Super Bowls though....

Those guys needed each other and their egos made them successful. They burnt the candles at both ends and pushed hard. And neither has been as successful separately. Jimmy would have gotten a head coaching shot in the NFL but authority over the personnel director? Nope. No owner was giving that out back then and especially to a college coach. And Jimmy was on borrowed time because his Miami teams were thugging it up something crazy.

But Jerry's choice for personnel guy with Jimmy gone: Larry Lacewell? Holy wow.... Those two couldn't draft at all, ever. They had no shot at winning together. I wouldn't even let them pick players at the pick up game for me.

Anytime you hear a story that is totally one-sided it is probably bogus. But if you listen to both sides of the story the truth almost always makes sense.

 

[jterrell]

Champions aren't defined by their holes (or lack thereof); they're defined by their dominance. The Giants have almost as many holes as we do, but their dominance in one key area combined with proficiency in others propelled them to the top.

Dallas doesn't need to be dominant in the exact style as the latest flavor of the 7 months, but if they were dominant anywhere last year I missed it. The offense was held at or below 20 points far too often and the defense's problems were well documented. The secondary was a sieve and I doubt there's a personnel guy on this planet who would call our front seven dominant even though they were pretty good. Certainly nobody would compare them to the Giants.

With that said, it's easy to see how Dallas could become dominant on offense if Miles returns to form and the ol is significantly strengthened. The defense should be pretty decent. Woicik will help. A healthy Murray should help. A real fulllback should help. If they were any other team I would still feel like they were a team to watch, but also a team that could go either way. OK, that's true in many places, but the potential variance here seems high even by NFL standards.

The 2011 Giants were a 2011 Cowboys level team who got hot at the right time and were lucky to be playing in a soft NFCE last season. That's what happens with parity era football. It wasn't about dominance it was about marked improvement in their secondary and improved health in the DL giving them a better pass rush. Eli played very well all year but once the defense stood up and played to a moderate level they were very tough to beat.

Dallas wasn't close the last game but had a huge lead only a couple weeks prior which would have ended the Giants season. The Giants were hardly world beaters. The Giants are 5 games over .500 for the regular seasons the past 3 seasons. Us? 2 games over .500.

 

[Galian Beast]

If you look at our success vs failure of drafting in the first round, that should also help you understand the lack of our success...

Roy Williams*
Terence Newman*
Marcus Spears
DeMarcus Ware*
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Spencer
Felix Jones
Mike Jenkins*
Dez Bryant
Tyron Smith

From 2002 to present, 4 pro bowlers


When the Patriots were winning super bowls, they kept making their defensive line stronger by drafting defensive linemen in the first. Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork, all within 4 years. Warren isn't the greatest player, better than spears though, but they made that a strength. Similar to what punchnjudy described.

What position group was our strength last year?

Secondary? Don't make me laugh.
Linebackers? With Brooking and James? Hardly...
Defensive line? I wouldn't necessarily call it a strength...

on offense?

It's just Romo... and we had Murray come along for a while before he got hurt or Fiametta was hurt. This team has no strength outside of Romo.

We were held back by guys like Roy Williams (both of them), Newman, Barber, Choice, Brooking, and James...

 

[Galian Beast]

The difference between us and the Giants is that we peaked at mediocrity, they kept getting better.

This team settled for YEARS, and fans were apologist saying you can't fix everything at once... well starting alan ball at free safety... and columbo at right tackle.... these weren't things we had to do.

How long did we let Choice put games in jeopardy for us? Dude was a 3rd string running back... Marion Barber was garbage, yet we kept him way too long... even let him start over felix...

You want to know why we don't win, and it comes down to mismanagement every time and at nearly every level.

How Houck and Dave Campo were still here last year... pure examples of that.

 

[jterrell]

If you look at our success vs failure of drafting in the first round, that should also help you understand the lack of our success...

Roy Williams*
Terence Newman*
Marcus Spears
DeMarcus Ware*
Bobby Carpenter
Anthony Spencer
Felix Jones
Mike Jenkins*
Dez Bryant
Tyron Smith

From 2002 to present, 4 pro bowlers


When the Patriots were winning super bowls, they kept making their defensive line stronger by drafting defensive linemen in the first. Seymour, Warren, and Wilfork, all within 4 years. Warren isn't the greatest player, better than spears though, but they made that a strength. Similar to what punchnjudy described.

What position group was our strength last year?

Secondary? Don't make me laugh.
Linebackers? With Brooking and James? Hardly...
Defensive line? I wouldn't necessarily call it a strength...

on offense?

It's just Romo... and we had Murray come along for a while before he got hurt or Fiametta was hurt. This team has no strength outside of Romo.

We were held back by guys like Roy Williams (both of them), Newman, Barber, Choice, Brooking, and James...

Our Linebacker group with Sean Lee was strong. Definitely the best group of defense.

Our WR corps was very, very strong.
And Romo was quite good.
Our RB corps was a real strength with Murray healthy.

The Giants were terrible on the DL and at LB and at DB most of the year. Their OL was terrible and they couldn;t runt he ball at all.
They were all Eli and out of no where Victor Cruz. But they got it together at the end.

The Pats defense was dominant at one point but hasn't been in a long time. Now they are all Brady. They get inconsistent play just about everywhere else but they have a very heady coach and a great QB.

The Packers? Great QB and what else?

Saints?

End of the day this isn't about being dominant it is about being good enough to beat people when it matters. Dallas has failed terribly at that.

Dallas needs to fill glaring weaknesses such as signing Carr to replace the oft-injured and aging TNew.

 

[jterrell]

The difference between us and the Giants is that we peaked at mediocrity, they kept getting better.

This team settled for YEARS, and fans were apologist saying you can't fix everything at once... well starting alan ball at free safety... and columbo at right tackle.... these weren't things we had to do.

How long did we let Choice put games in jeopardy for us? Dude was a 3rd string running back... Marion Barber was garbage, yet we kept him way too long... even let him start over felix...

You want to know why we don't win, and it comes down to mismanagement every time and at nearly every level.

How Houck and Dave Campo were still here last year... pure examples of that.

31 teams a year can second guess their decisions... good luck with all that.

 

[KJJ]

Are you really so daft as to ask for articles from 1989-90?
If you were a Cowboys fan living in Dallas and listening to talk radio you would have heard most of this. If you read the autobiographies of the players and coaches and Jerry you'd have heard the rest. It's been 20 years so I can point you directions but that's it.

You made one set of assumptions which I tell you are wrong and you want proof; yet have zero reason for believing what you do....

Jerry and Jimmy both want or at least wanted credit for basically everything but after years of hearing stories and looking at facts it is pretty clear. Dave Campo and other Jimmy guys who stayed in Dallas cleared up a lot of it in various speaking engagements like weekly radio shows.

Jerry thought he was a serious draft day genius because he fought for Troy... but he didn't pick him based on talent. He picked a blond-haired blue-eyed jersey selling machine. He wanted credit for forcing the Walsh trade but Jimmy did the work there and brought back a great return for a crappy QB talent. Would Jimmy have taken Aikman anyways? Hard to think he would considering 1 month later he selected Walsh with the first overall pick of the supplemental draft. No other team had a shot at him ever. Jimmy knew he'd have him before he ever took Aikman.

Walsh was taken with our r1 supp pick which turned into the 1st overall pick the next season. Recall we won 1 crappy game that first year. But he did get back a 1,2,3 from the Saints in a trade coup.

Jimmy loved evaluating NFL talent and he found it in almost every round. Especially early on when his coaches were fresh on the best players they had recruited. But it did kill him that Jerry had ties to Aikman and Irvin that ran so deep. He was spending 80+ hours per week solely on football while Jerry was doing business deals and (re)growing the brand. Both guys loved to drink and brag. They just started resenting each other mightily.

Aikman v. Walsh: Aikman won the vote of Jerry, Ackles(the Landry era pro personnel director) and the QB Coach. Jimmy didn't vote at all; he conducted the poll. He decided the guys who worked with the QBs were probably right and knew he had to make a firm decision. He did and went with Aikman but not at all without a lot of bad blood. Jimmy purged the QB Coach (and scrub Coordinator David Shula) that off-season who Troy had ties with in BP fashion (fired David Lee because he was too cuddly with Romo). Norv Turner came in that off-season and was the guy Troy really loved. He didn't have Jimmy introduce him in Canton. Neither did Irvin. OR Emmitt. Who exactly has Jimmy presented?

End of the day Jimmy claims he left Dallas because he wanted to return to South Florida. He obviously did end up there and hasn't left so whose to disbelieve him. Jerry said he could win a super bowl with any of 200 coaches and well he did. Good thing he didn't say he could win 2 Super Bowls though....

Those guys needed each other and their egos made them successful. They burnt the candles at both ends and pushed hard. And neither has been as successful separately. Jimmy would have gotten a head coaching shot in the NFL but authority over the personnel director? Nope. No owner was giving that out back then and especially to a college coach. And Jimmy was on borrowed time because his Miami teams were thugging it up something crazy.

But Jerry's choice for personnel guy with Jimmy gone: Larry Lacewell? Holy wow.... Those two couldn't draft at all, ever. They had no shot at winning together. I wouldn't even let them pick players at the pick up game for me.

Anytime you hear a story that is totally one-sided it is probably bogus. But if you listen to both sides of the story the truth almost always makes sense.

All you have to do is google for some articles there's a lot of things out there about Jimmy and Jerry's building of the Cowboys. I'm sure some of it will be fact and some of it will be completely false. I've been living in Ca since 1980 so I have no idea what was being reported in Dallas. I've read a lot of articles with quotes from Jimmy and Jerry talking about how they built the Cowboys and I've listened to many interviews with them talking about it and never heard some of the things you mentioned. The claims that Jimmy said Troy was a loser and then going ahead and using the #1 overall pick on him makes absolutely no sense!

The facts are Aikman beat out Walsh in training camp their rookie year. When Aikman got injured in week 4 of the 89 season and Walsh took over Troy resumed his starting role once his injury had healed. If the entire staff including Jimmy was so impressed by Walsh during the 7 games he started Jimmy would have left him in there to finish out the season. When Aikman returned against the Cardinals he passed for a rookie record of 379 yards. Your claims that the entire staff except for 2 people believed in Walsh more than Aikman is completely bogus.

I never read or heard anything to support that and the Cowboys actions during the 89 season further prove that it wasn't true. You obviously spent too much time listening to people on the radio who didn't know what they were talking about. The fact that Walsh was traded during the first month of the 1990 season is more proof who the Cowboys believed in more. If you want to continue arguing this produce some articles.

 

[Galian Beast]

31 teams a year can second guess their decisions... good luck with all that.

It's a problem when you can second guess the decisions as they happen.

Sean Lee was unproven entering his second year, but we still relied on Brooking and James... This wasn't a strong group, and linebacker was a weakness.

Wide Receiver was certainly not strong. Outside of Austin, who knew the plays? We got lucky with Robinson, but we struggled in games because we didn't have wide receivers we could count on.

As I said, Romo was the only real strength. I gave credit to Murray when he was healthy, but even then he struggled without Fiammetta..

Packers have great wide receivers, and they had a pretty good secondary before.

We replaced Newman, but we still probably need a safety. We're paying spencer nearly 9 million dollars this year. I would have rather mortgaged the future to get Mario Williams, even at the cost of getting Carr.

Fact is we're just not great anywhere, and it comes from bad drafting.

Poor drafting in the 1st round, and poor drafting in the second round, too many projects in the 3rd round.

It comes from passing on guys like DeCastro.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Are you really so daft as to ask for articles from 1989-90?
If you were a Cowboys fan living in Dallas and listening to talk radio you would have heard most of this. If you read the autobiographies of the players and coaches and Jerry you'd have heard the rest. It's been 20 years so I can point you directions but that's it.

You made one set of assumptions which I tell you are wrong and you want proof; yet have zero reason for believing what you do....

Jerry and Jimmy both want or at least wanted credit for basically everything but after years of hearing stories and looking at facts it is pretty clear. Dave Campo and other Jimmy guys who stayed in Dallas cleared up a lot of it in various speaking engagements like weekly radio shows.

Jerry thought he was a serious draft day genius because he fought for Troy... but he didn't pick him based on talent. He picked a blond-haired blue-eyed jersey selling machine. He wanted credit for forcing the Walsh trade but Jimmy did the work there and brought back a great return for a crappy QB talent. Would Jimmy have taken Aikman anyways? Hard to think he would considering 1 month later he selected Walsh with the first overall pick of the supplemental draft. No other team had a shot at him ever. Jimmy knew he'd have him before he ever took Aikman.

Walsh was taken with our r1 supp pick which turned into the 1st overall pick the next season. Recall we won 1 crappy game that first year. But he did get back a 1,2,3 from the Saints in a trade coup.

Jimmy loved evaluating NFL talent and he found it in almost every round. Especially early on when his coaches were fresh on the best players they had recruited. But it did kill him that Jerry had ties to Aikman and Irvin that ran so deep. He was spending 80+ hours per week solely on football while Jerry was doing business deals and (re)growing the brand. Both guys loved to drink and brag. They just started resenting each other mightily.

Aikman v. Walsh: Aikman won the vote of Jerry, Ackles(the Landry era pro personnel director) and the QB Coach. Jimmy didn't vote at all; he conducted the poll. He decided the guys who worked with the QBs were probably right and knew he had to make a firm decision. He did and went with Aikman but not at all without a lot of bad blood. Jimmy purged the QB Coach (and scrub Coordinator David Shula) that off-season who Troy had ties with in BP fashion (fired David Lee because he was too cuddly with Romo). Norv Turner came in that off-season and was the guy Troy really loved. He didn't have Jimmy introduce him in Canton. Neither did Irvin. OR Emmitt. Who exactly has Jimmy presented?

End of the day Jimmy claims he left Dallas because he wanted to return to South Florida. He obviously did end up there and hasn't left so whose to disbelieve him. Jerry said he could win a super bowl with any of 200 coaches and well he did. Good thing he didn't say he could win 2 Super Bowls though....

Those guys needed each other and their egos made them successful. They burnt the candles at both ends and pushed hard. And neither has been as successful separately. Jimmy would have gotten a head coaching shot in the NFL but authority over the personnel director? Nope. No owner was giving that out back then and especially to a college coach. And Jimmy was on borrowed time because his Miami teams were thugging it up something crazy.

But Jerry's choice for personnel guy with Jimmy gone: Larry Lacewell? Holy wow.... Those two couldn't draft at all, ever. They had no shot at winning together. I wouldn't even let them pick players at the pick up game for me.

Anytime you hear a story that is totally one-sided it is probably bogus. But if you listen to both sides of the story the truth almost always makes sense.

Someone in his corner needs to throw in the towel. You are pummeling him at will.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It comes from passing on guys like DeCastro.

We did huh? Damn, that's too bad.

 

[Galian Beast]

We did huh? Damn, that's too bad.

Where does your comprehension lead you to believe "Guys like" equates to past tense on not drafting a specific player who has not been drafted?

Just sad....

 

[Blast From The Past]

This year we start the long swing up to stay at the top for a stretch.

Man, I have to agree with that statement. I believe this team that JJ & JG are building is for a long term run not a one and done.

 

[KJJ]

Someone in his corner needs to throw in the towel. You are pummeling him at will.

You're actually buying into what he's saying that the entire staff including Jimmy believed in Walsh more than Aikman after the 89 season? You really believe Jimmy thought Aikman was a loser but went along with using the #1 overall pick on him anyway? You're just another one who will back anything anyone says as long as it differs from what I'm saying. The agenda of a few here is hilarious! :laugh2:

 

[jterrell]

All you have to do is google for some articles there's a lot of things out there about Jimmy and Jerry's building of the Cowboys. I'm sure some of it will be fact and some of it will be completely false. I've been living in Ca since 1980 so I have no idea what was being reported in Dallas. I've read a lot of articles with quotes from Jimmy and Jerry talking about how they built the Cowboys and I've listened to many interviews with them talking about it and never heard some of the things you mentioned. The claims that Jimmy said Troy was a loser and then going ahead and using the #1 overall pick on him makes absolutely no sense!

The facts are Aikman beat out Walsh in training camp their rookie year. When Aikman got injured in week 4 of the 89 season and Walsh took over Troy resumed his starting role once his injury had healed. If the entire staff including Jimmy was so impressed by Walsh during the 7 games he started Jimmy would have left him in there to finish out the season. When Aikman returned against the Cardinals he passed for a rookie record of 379 yards. Your claims that the entire staff except for 2 people believed in Walsh more than Aikman is completely bogus.

I never read or heard anything to support that and the Cowboys actions during the 89 season further prove that it wasn't true. You obviously spent too much time listening to people on the radio who didn't know what they were talking about. The fact that Walsh was traded during the first month of the 1990 season is more proof who the Cowboys believed in more. If you want to continue arguing this produce some articles.

Jimmy said Troy was a loser to a group of media AFTER trading Walsh according to Bayless. Fisher reported he said it when he had both guys in house and always preferred Walsh until the practice sessions showed their difference in ability beyond arguing.

Feel free to google yourself. Or just email Mike Fisher... I HAVE. Heck I have posted his email responses on this board in year's past.

Against Arizona, Aikman had 379 yards but also 2 fumbles lost and 2 INTs.
Aikman had a QB rating of 55 with 9 TDs and 18 INTs that season. The lowest qb rating Quincy Carter ever had for a season was 63 yet you think the team was totally sold on the guy??

I have no problem with you believing whatever you want but stop misleading other people.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060807

Jerry paid Aikman 11 million dollars(More than Montana made at the time). He wasn't riding any pines for long.

 

[KJJ]

Are you really so daft as to ask for articles from 1989-90?
If you were a Cowboys fan living in Dallas and listening to talk radio you would have heard most of this. If you read the autobiographies of the players and coaches and Jerry you'd have heard the rest. It's been 20 years so I can point you directions but that's it.

The fact is everything you heard on the radio back in 89-90 was FALSE! If the entire staff including Jimmy believed in Walsh more than Aikman after the 89 season they would have traded Aikman and not Walsh. The Cowboys would have gotten more for Aikman than Walsh in a trade. You claimed you heard that Jimmy thought Aikman was a loser and planned on starting Walsh but as we saw you heard WRONG! Nothing you heard ever happened so much for the credibility of those on the radio you listened to.

Aikman beat out Walsh in the summer of 89 and showed more potential during the games he played than Walsh did which is why Jimmy went back to Aikman during that season after his injury had healed. The Cowboys actions that season disproves everything you heard on the radio. No way does Jimmy bench Walsh and go back to Aikman if everything you heard was true. During the 91 season Aikman was injured and was replaced by Steve Beuerlein he played so well Jimmy kept him in there even though Aikman was ready to return. Aikman didn't get his job back until Beuerlein's play finally started to drop off.

Aikman made a throw against the Cardinals during the 89 season in a game he passed for a rookie record 379 yards that went for a 75 yard TD. He stood in the pocket and gunned the ball down the field as he was being clobbered Walsh could have NEVER made that throw! All Walsh could do was throw intermediate routes he had a noodle arm. Not only could he not get the ball down the field he only completed 50% of his passes in 89. He lasted in Dallas only one full season and was dealt one month into the 1990 season. That's how much the entire staff believed in him after the 89 season. :laugh2:

 

[TwoDeep3]

My biggest contention with the last six or so years is the way we have drafted.

No big whoop here, but what truly wins football games?

The trenches and a stout defense.

While I still see some issues with Romo's game I would like improved, he is beholding to his protection. When the average Joe Fan can see him running for his life at times when facing a good pass rushing defense, one would assume the brain trusts see this as well.

Or, when we see we couldn't generate a pass rush against a girl scout flag football team with some of the players we have acquired outside of Ware, then do the people pulling the strings on this team not see that as well?

Well, there's my mistake. Because it is evident to all but those making the choices.

Fix both lines and see how you come out.

Or, use late round draft choices and other team's cast offs for those positions and what do we get?

We see it on the field when we generate no pass rush except Ware, and Romo is harassed into miscues and we again are mediocre.

This is not a popular opinion. Because holding accountable the folks who run this organization has a dark underside to it.

If it is the players - and it is to a point - then the cap hinders us from making wholesale changes and the future is bleak.

If this is the management - and it is for the rest of the point - then the future is still bleak, because they have exhibited they cannot assemble a team that protects the passer, and reeks havoc for the other team's passer.

We all see teams win each year, and in most cases they win by a fundamental truth about this game.

Strong offensive line and strong defense is what wins.

When we ignore these areas and buy "Wow, players," in free agency, and unknowns in the draft, what we see is what we get.

Another year of also-rans.

 

[KJJ]

Jimmy said Troy was a loser to a group of media AFTER trading Walsh according to Bayless. Fisher reported he said it when he had both guys in house and always preferred Walsh until the practice sessions showed their difference in ability beyond arguing.

Feel free to google yourself. Or just email Mike Fisher... I HAVE. Heck I have posted his email responses on this board in year's past.

Against Arizona, Aikman had 379 yards but also 2 fumbles lost and 2 INTs.
Aikman had a QB rating of 55 with 9 TDs and 18 INTs that season. The lowest qb rating Quincy Carter ever had for a season was 63 yet you think the team was totally sold on the guy??

I have no problem with you believing whatever you want but stop misleading other people.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060807

Jerry paid Aikman 11 million dollars(More than Montana made at the time). He wasn't riding any pines for long.

Now you're saying Jimmy made the comment AFTER he traded Walsh love how your story keeps changing. That makes even less sense then what you were implying originally that he made the comment before drafting Aikman. Jimmy would have looked like an IDIOT standing in front of a group in the media saying Aikman is a loser but I decided to keep him and trade the QB I believed in more. :laugh2: Like I said it was all according to Bayless. There's no proof Jimmy ever said Troy was a loser to a group in the media if he did several in the media who were supposedly there would have reported it. It would have been confirmed by several people which would have given it a lot of credibility. It was the practice sessions and actual games where you could see Aikman was the much better QB that's why Jimmy put him back in after his injury had healed during the 89 season.

The bottom line is Jimmy would have never signed onto drafting Aikman if he thought he was a loser. Had Jimmy wanted Mandarich he would have been the pick and the Cowboys would have been stuck with him and Walsh. There would have been no SB's or team of the 90's. Jerry and Jimmy's relationship would have ended in a murder suicide a couple of years later. :laugh2:

 

[TwoDeep3]

The fact is everything you heard on the radio back in 89-90 was FALSE! If the entire staff including Jimmy believed in Walsh more than Aikman after the 89 season they would have traded Aikman and not Walsh. The Cowboys would have gotten more for Aikman than Walsh in a trade. You claimed you heard that Jimmy thought Aikman was a loser and planned on starting Walsh but as we saw you heard WRONG! Nothing you heard ever happened so much for the credibility of those on the radio you listened to.

Aikman beat out Walsh in the summer of 89 and showed more potential during the games he played than Walsh did which is why Jimmy went back to Aikman during that season after his injury had healed. The Cowboys actions that season disproves everything you heard on the radio. No way does Jimmy bench Walsh and go back to Aikman if everything you heard was true. During the 91 season Aikman was injured and was replaced by Steve Beuerlein he played so well Jimmy kept him in there even though Aikman was ready to return. Aikman didn't get his job back until Beuerlein's play finally started to drop off.

Aikman made a throw against the Cardinals during the 89 season in a game he passed for a rookie record 379 yards that went for a 75 yard TD. He stood in the pocket and gunned the ball down the field as he was being clobbered Walsh could have NEVER made that throw! All Walsh could do was throw intermediate routes he had a noodle arm. Not only could he not get the ball down the field he only completed 50% of his passes in 89. He lasted in Dallas only one full season and was dealt one month into the 1990 season. That's how much the entire staff believed in him after the 89 season. :laugh2:

JTerrell is right.

Jimmy took Aikman but didn't totally believe in him. He then used a supplimental draft pick to get Walsh.

Why would he pull that trigger if he was sold on Aikman?

Further it caused Troy to doubt the team when Walsh came aboard.

However, there is no denying Aikman was the better choice and Jimmy saw that.

The rest of the story goes like this.

Dallas traded away Walsh but Troy was still miffed at Jimmy. He didn't know if he could play for the guy and that had an effect on his game.

The season ended, this may have been 1990, and Jimmy threw a party for the team at his house around Christmas. he invited all the players and maybe made it mandatory to be sure troy was there.

Troy showed up but wasn't going to stay long.

Jimmy had the guests toss their jackets on a bed in a bedroom. Troy's keys to his car were in his jacket.

Troy tried to leave early but he could not find his keys. One after another guests left and Troy was forced to stay. He so much as admitted he was uncomfortable around Jimmy and this was nearly unbearable.

Jimmy made some production to find the keys but they never turned up.

Finally all the guests left and it was just Jimmy and Troy.

Jimmy said," let's have a beer and then i will take you home."

They sat down and Jimmy opened the dialog telling troy he believed in him. They had a long talk and Jimmy offered his friendship.

Troy accepted.

Magically the keys were in Jimmy's pocket.

I used to work for Fisher and that came right from his mouth, told to him by Jimmy.

It was not rosy the first years until Walsh was traded and Jimmy and Troy buried that hatchet.

Regardless of what anyone thinks now.

However, Bayless is a ignorant *** that creates a firestorm to get people to listen to him. He made a career of it, but that doesn't mean his fabrications are a load of bravo sierra.