3-4 defense- the difference between ours and NE

[dmq]

After watching the New England game, one thing really stuck out to me about the defense they have and ours. The Defensive Line. Ty Warren, Vince Wolfolk and Richard Seymour. These guys just plain collapse the pocket every down and still maintain their rushing lanes. Our Defensive line maintains the lanes, but can't collapse the pocket. I am not sure if Spears and Canty will develop the strength to collapse the pocket, but Ferguson doesn't really have upside at this point in his career. I think we need to develop a Montavious Stanley type, a huge player in the middle. Honestly, until we get the push upfront from these guys, this defense will not work.

 

[Doomsday]

I agree! Spears, Canty and Ferguson are all decent vs the run but all are a liability when it comes to rushing the passer. San Diego and Baltimore both have better Dlines then Dallas as well. Its no surprise why all of their defenses are more dominant and look more dynamic then the one Dallas has fielded the last 2 seasons.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Warren has always been a good player, but is having his best season ever. Wilfork was highly overrated in his first two seasons, but has really come on strong this year.

I watched the Jets game and they switched things up a bit, going 3-4, 4-3, and then nickel. I think the big player for them is Seymour because Warren and Wilfork were never this good at penetrating on passing plays until this season. But still, they are able to disguise blitzes and they change things up and don't make things so obvious for opposing offenses.


YAKUZA

 

[joseephuss]

Part of it is youth and experience. The Pats have run that defense for years. They are familiar with the scheme and each other. The Cowboys are just in their second season of the defense. It makes a difference. Not the biggest difference because that is the talent level. The Pats front line and the Chargers front line are just better than Spears, Canty and Ferguson.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Pats have a great DL. Hard to argue that point.

Cowboys knew coming into this season that they needed some push on the DL, they didnt really address it.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I think the difference between the two d is more simple than that. I do believe that Spears and Canty can generate a pass rush, the problem is that their first move is to engage the OL then stop and read,, instead of generating penetration on every play..if we went to a more aggressive scheme, of just getting penetration to disrupt plays, either running or passing,, the two of them would be viewed different.

The down side to that is that it makes trapping the DL much more easier, creating some big running lanes, which is why we don't do it.

I firmly believe it is the scheme of read and react that is holding the Two of these guys back from being aggressive on the pass rush.. not their skill level.

 

[joseephuss]

I think the difference between the two d is more simple than that. I do believe that Spears and Canty can generate a pass rush, the problem is that their first move is to engage the OL then stop and read,, instead of generating penetration on every play..if we went to a more aggressive scheme, of just getting penetration to disrupt plays, either running or passing,, the two of them would be viewed different.

The down side to that is that it makes trapping the DL much more easier, creating some big running lanes, which is why we don't do it.

I firmly believe it is the scheme of read and react that is holding the Two of these guys back from being aggressive on the pass rush.. not their skill level.

Then why are they taken out in nickle packages when the d-line is asked to rush the passer? If they wre good pass rushers, they would be left in the game more times than they are taken out.

 

[Doomsday]

I think the difference between the two d is more simple than that. I do believe that Spears and Canty can generate a pass rush, the problem is that their first move is to engage the OL then stop and read,, instead of generating penetration on every play..if we went to a more aggressive scheme, of just getting penetration to disrupt plays, either running or passing,, the two of them would be viewed different.

The down side to that is that it makes trapping the DL much more easier, creating some big running lanes, which is why we don't do it.

I firmly believe it is the scheme of read and react that is holding the Two of these guys back from being aggressive on the pass rush.. not their skill level.

I hear what your saying and I want to buy into it, but I have a hard time with it because over the coarse of a season there are a lot of situations that come up where you would attack the QB and they still dont seem to be able to generate any pass rush. Dallas was terrible at rushing the QB on 3rd down which suggests the players arent getting it done to me.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Then why are they taken out in nickle packages when the d-line is asked to rush the passer? If they wre good pass rushers, they would be left in the game more times than they are taken out.

Maybe, but it could be that they are better run stoppers than pass rushers, which is not a bad thing either.. everyone has their role on a team. So in order to keep them as fresh as possible, they are part of a rotation.

 

[joseephuss]

Maybe, but it could be that they are better run stoppers than pass rushers, which is not a bad thing either.. everyone has their role on a team. So in order to keep them as fresh as possible, they are part of a rotation.

I do think they are good run stoppers and you are correct that this is not a bad thing. They shut down a very good runner in Alexander. They just are't good pass rushers. It isn't the scheme in my opinion. They may get better at it since they are still learning the nuances of the NFL, but several posters here have pointed out and neither Spears or Canty put up big sack numbers in college.

 

[Rampage]

After watching the New England game, one thing really stuck out to me about the defense they have and ours. The Defensive Line. Ty Warren, Vince Wolfolk and Richard Seymour. These guys just plain collapse the pocket every down and still maintain their rushing lanes. Our Defensive line maintains the lanes, but can't collapse the pocket. I am not sure if Spears and Canty will develop the strength to collapse the pocket, but Ferguson doesn't really have upside at this point in his career. I think we need to develop a Montavious Stanley type, a huge player in the middle. Honestly, until we get the push upfront from these guys, this defense will not work.

plus the pats 3-4 actually causes confusion

 

[CalCBFan]

Warren has always been a good player, but is having his best season ever. Wilfork was highly overrated in his first two seasons, but has really come on strong this year.

I watched the Jets game and they switched things up a bit, going 3-4, 4-3, and then nickel. I think the big player for them is Seymour because Warren and Wilfork were never this good at penetrating on passing plays until this season. But still, they are able to disguise blitzes and they change things up and don't make things so obvious for opposing offenses.


YAKUZA

Sounds to me like a couple of lazy guys that are putting out this one year to get a big, fat contract exten$ion...

 

[DipChit]

Well Spears is on record as saying it's not his job (nor Fergy's or Canty's) to rush the passer. With that attitude it's no wonder he doesnt get it done.

I guess that means it's just Ware or bust in 1st and 2nd down pass plays when we only send 4.

Which undoubtedly explains why opposing teams have a higher 1st down passer rating against us than any other team in the league.

 

[braw]

plus the pats 3-4 actually causes confusion

The difference is controlled chaos. NE's D gives you a pre snap read and dictate where you will go(secondary). The front 7 usually line up in different formations to confuse blocking scheme. They always plat games with either Tackle or center. For example: Seymeor lines up inside the tackle and rushes tight to the right, if the tackle takes him to the outside then the OLB delays his rush off of Seymeor's butt. Or the nose makes the center committ to one side and the ILB comes inside the vacated area. When you do this alot during a game it makes it easier for Warren, Wolkfolk, and Seymeor to rush the QB because the OL is aware of the LBers.

Our D is set what they cover and the other teams offense will be where we are not. They don't confuse anyone pre snap and they don't confuse blocking schemes. They play straight up. When an Olineman knows who he blocks on every play its hard to beat him. Same for the WR, when he knows what zone you are covering then he simply pre determines where the holes are.

So in conclusion, the difference is not in the inexperience of the players with the system; but the inexperience of the coach who runs it. Just look at the Jets.

 

[Doomsday]

The Jets are moving all around presnap and relying on blitzes and confusion. I still argue its hard for BP or Zimmer to do that when James cant even cover his man when they run a zero blitz. How many times were people running free in the secondary and flats this year vs Dallas? If you cant execute basic blitzes how can the coaching staff implement more complicated schemes? NE was rushing 3 at times and still generating more pressure then Dallas does when they rush 5 and 6.

 

[dmq]

The Jets are moving all around presnap and relying on blitzes and confusion. I still argue its hard for BP or Zimmer to do that when James cant even cover his man when they run a zero blitz. How many times were people running free in the secondary and flats this year vs Dallas? If you cant execute basic blitzes how can the coaching staff implement more complicated schemes? NE was rushing 3 at times and still generating more pressure then Dallas does when they rush 5 and 6.

What I saw NEs DL do is keep their OL in front of them and just push them back in the pocket. They would then rush to the QB when they got close. Our defensive linemen can't do that. If they could, Parcells wouldn't be calling them out. I for one think Hatcher might be one of the guys that can, but that may be two years away. Stanley is a few years away as well.

 

[LatinMind]

After watching the New England game, one thing really stuck out to me about the defense they have and ours. The Defensive Line. Ty Warren, Vince Wolfolk and Richard Seymour. These guys just plain collapse the pocket every down and still maintain their rushing lanes. Our Defensive line maintains the lanes, but can't collapse the pocket. I am not sure if Spears and Canty will develop the strength to collapse the pocket, but Ferguson doesn't really have upside at this point in his career. I think we need to develop a Montavious Stanley type, a huge player in the middle. Honestly, until we get the push upfront from these guys, this defense will not work.

the difference between ne and dallas 3-4.

their's works, dallas' doesnt