3rd and long

[OmerV]

But the 7 yards on 3rd and 8 is > than 0 yards with an incomplete pass downfield, correct?

But it’s a 1st down with 8 yards.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

It's the Jason Garrett playbook.

 

[OmerV]

It's the Jason Garrett playbook.

So, 8 yards for a first down and ydon’t think the playbook has a play designed to cover 9 yards or more?

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

So, 8 yards for a first down and ydon’t think the playbook has a play designed to cover 9 yards or more?

If it does that page has coffee rings and cobwebs on it. Never actually seen it be used.

 

[OmerV]

If it does that page has coffee rings and cobwebs on it. Never actually seen it be used.

You are talking about playcalling. Obviously the playbook has plays designed for all distances.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

You are talking about playcalling. Obviously the playbook has plays designed for all distances.

Again, if there is, that call is never used in a third and long situation. This is an issue that was brought up back when Romo was QB. The expectation is for the receivers to then run and get the extra yards after the catch. Only problem is that it only works when the opponent you are playing has an awful secondary - much like what the Cowboys have. Of course we don't really see many of those teams in the playoffs.

 

[OmerV]

Again, if there is, that call is never used in a third and long situation. This is an issue that was brought up back when Romo was QB. The expectation is for the receivers to then run and get the extra yards after the catch. Only problem is that it only works when the opponent you are playing has an awful secondary - much like what the Cowboys have. Of course we don't really see many of those teams in the playoffs.

Let me ask you this ... does every pass the team ever throws travel in the air for 8 yards or less? Do they never get a first down on 3rd and long? I get the frustration - I have it too - but don’t stubbornly stick to a silly and unsupportable narrative. It’s ridiculous to suggest the playbook doesn’t or even may not contain plays designed for the needed distance. Play calling and playbook are not synonymous terms.

 

[ghst187]

YES. We know people like Skip Bayless love that statistic.

I liked last night that Cooper Rush went down the field immediately and drew that PI call. It was a good play that should have came to fruition (but set up the field goal), but I hardly saw the same call for the rest of the game.

Yeah that's what usually happens against us on 3rd and long.
Also a play the Pats use a lot, the 3rd and too long to get so create a PI.

 

[waldoputty]

I like to try a sneak every once in a while. GF says no.

u need to hang out with @Ranching

 

[Captain-Crash]

the defense dictates the distance by the coverage.

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Let me ask you this ... does every pass the team ever throws travel in the air for 8 yards or less? Do they never get a first down on 3rd and long? I get the frustration - I have it too - but don’t stubbornly stick to a silly and unsupportable narrative. It’s ridiculous to suggest the playbook doesn’t or even may not contain plays designed for the needed distance. Play calling and playbook are not synonymous terms.

Did I say they never get a first down? I'm merely pointing out that this scenario you are hoping that your receivers are going to catch and out play the defender. It's not a bad bet against most teams because most teams are going to be that .500 sub .500 range. But you are not going to get anywhere with teams that are playoff teams and SB winning teams. Why? Because the law of averages that you beat them every time you are in a third and long situation fall drastically to the point where you can no longer covert or have a small chance of conversion.

 

[Aviano90]

But it’s a 1st down with 8 yards.

Yeah but 7 looks better than 0 in the total yards department.

 

[OmerV]

Yeah but 7 looks better than 0 in the total yards department.

And 8 plus 5 plus 10 plus 12 plus 7 plus 4 actually makes a difference in stats. 7 yards does not. Stats aren’t accumulated on one play or on 3 and outs. The only way to build stats is to keep drives going.

 

[Aviano90]

And 8 plus 5 plus 10 plus 12 plus 7 plus 4 actually makes a difference in stats. 7 yards does not. Stats aren’t accumulated on one play or on 3 and outs. The only way to build stats is to keep drives going.

Lol. You still haven’t figured out my original comment was a joke and are continuing to go down your devils advocate path. No surprise, let’s continue and see how long you keep this one up.

Yes, sometimes getting 13 is better than getting 7 but other times 7 is better than getting 0 and it is easier to get 7 because the defense gives a cushion of they know you need 8.

Sometimes may even get 14 yards instead of 13 yard and other times we may only get 5 yards instead of 7.

Oh the number of different possibility are too numerous to list out since we don’t have a crystal ball and can’t definitively know what is actually going to occur until it actually occurs.

I am not saying we will get 7 yards all the time but I don’t know if we will get more than 7 yards or fewer than 7 yards because all 3 are possible. It just depends on the play call, and what the defense doesn’t, and how the players execute, and whether there is a penalty.

The end result is that we may or may not get a first down. I am not sayin we will get the first down, but I am also not saying we won’t get the first down if we only get 7 yards. We may get a favorable spot from the refs and the other team may or may not challenge.

And if they do challenge, it may be conclusive or inconclusive depending upon the camera angels. There may be a player that blocks the view and we really can’t tell one way or the other.

I guess we can just wait and see what happens after it occurs.

 

[OmerV]

Lol. You still haven’t figured out my original comment was a joke and are continuing to go down your devils advocate path. No surprise, let’s continue and see how long you keep this one up.

Yes, sometimes getting 13 is better than getting 7 but other times 7 is better than getting 0 and it is easier to get 7 because the defense gives a cushion of they know you need 8.

Sometimes may even get 14 yards instead of 13 yard and other times we may only get 5 yards instead of 7.

Oh the number of different possibility are too numerous to list out since we don’t have a crystal ball and can’t definitively know what is actually going to occur until it actually occurs.

I am not saying we will get 7 yards all the time but I don’t know if we will get more than 7 yards or fewer than 7 yards because all 3 are possible. It just depends on the play call, and what the defense doesn’t, and how the players execute, and whether there is a penalty.

The end result is that we may or may not get a first down. I am not sayin we will get the first down, but I am also not saying we won’t get the first down if we only get 7 yards. We may get a favorable spot from the refs and the other team may or may not challenge.

And if they do challenge, it may be conclusive or inconclusive depending upon the camera angels. There may be a player that blocks the view and we really can’t tell one way or the other.

I guess we can just wait and see what happens after it occurs.

Apparently you didn’t realize my initial response was a joke ... hence the “maybe someone should tell Linnehan” portion of the comment. You are just as responsible for perpuating as I am. And you are still going on and on and on, and ultimately it still takes sustaining drives to accumulate yardage.

 

[Aviano90]

Apparently you didn’t realize my initial response was a joke ... hence the “maybe someone should tell Linnehan” portion of the comment. You are just as responsible for perpuating as I am. And you are still going on and on and on, and ultimately it still takes sustaining drives to accumulate yardage.

Well I typically joke and, well, you don’t. So, yeah, I missed it. My bad.

 

[OmerV]

Well I typically joke and, well, you don’t. So, yeah, I missed it. My bad.

Lol, you apparently don’t know me well. There are specific things I get a bit ruffled at, such as people being unwilling to have a fair minded discussion and treating their opinion as the final and only word, but otherwise I’m pretty light hearted. I suppose given our exchanges you may not see that, but given our exchanges you’ll have to excuse it if I don’t see it so much in you. Ultimately we both tend to speak up when we see what we think are unfair or unreasonable viewpoints.

 

[ConstantReboot]

You do know it’s not just Garrett right?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...eaning-on-the-short-pass-and-its-not-working/

Garrett has been doing it for years. He is the main culprit of playing it safe and throw the short yardage play.

It has been his strategy all along albeit flawed.

 

[Doomsday]

Looking at the bright side, with Zeke running the ball those 3rd and 7s will be 3rd and 4 or 5 so the completions would of been first downs.

 

[PhillyCowboysFan]

Garrett has been doing it for years. He is the main culprit of playing it safe and throw the short yardage play.

It has been his strategy all along albeit flawed.

I don’t know how we can call him the main culprit as I vividly remember the fan base here in the Philly area lambasting Andy Reid for years because of this type of consistent play calling. And just to be in record, I don’t know who started it but I will definitely agree you that I hate it and think it is strange to consistently relay in missed tackles to make first downs.