5 Tech 3-4 DE

[Cowboyny]

Many of us have been discussing what is truly needed transitioning from a 4-3 into more of hybrid multiple one, which MM wants here in Dallas. Of coarse a lot can change depending on who is going to run our defense next year.

We are all aware the team has to address the 1 Tech DT, but if they also are going to run some 3-4 alignments, they are going to need to add a legitimate 5 Tech, 3-4 DE.

Some of the names who might fit the bill:

Basham Wake Forest
Hutchinson Michigan
Twman Pitt

Any others? Those clearly are the top guys, they should be several others later to target.

 

[stilltheguru]

Many of us have been discussing what is truly needed transitioning from a 4-3 into more of hybrid multiple one, which MM wants here in Dallas. Of coarse a lot can change depending on who is going to run our defense next year.

We are all aware the team has to address the 1 Tech DT, but if they also are going to run some 3-4 alignments, they are going to need to add a legitimate 5 Tech, 3-4 DE.

Some of the names who might fit the bill:

Basham Wake Forest
Hutchinson Michigan
Twman Pitt

Any others? Those clearly are the top guys, they should be several others later to target.

So we have to wait on another process because its what MM prefers even though he said just get him players. Fat Garrett is funny

 

[thunderpimp91]

I just cant see that happening. you cant realistically have a full depth chart to satisfy both a 4-3 and 3-4. I can see the Cowboys looking for guys who fit the 4-3 that have "position flex" that can lineup all across the dline, but just cant see them spending any pick of value on true 3-4 player. A true pass rusher that can hybrid a DE/OLB maybe, but a true 5T seems like a waste. The value would be that they would also need to be able to play 4-3 LDE which is already dominated by Lawrence so i cant see them seeing the field much without an injury.

Maybe it would get expanded in year 2 with a full offseason to install, but most of the 3-4 looks the Cowboys have had in 2020 are still mostly using 4-3 principals and responsibilities. I think we need to be careful about the 3-4 label when on a very high percentage of snaps the only thing making it a 3-4 is the weakside DE playing out of a 2 point stance.

 

[cnuball21]

I just cant see that happening. you cant realistically have a full depth chart to satisfy both a 4-3 and 3-4. I can see the Cowboys looking for guys who fit the 4-3 that have "position flex" that can lineup all across the dline, but just cant see them spending any pick of value on true 3-4 player. A true pass rusher that can hybrid a DE/OLB maybe, but a true 5T seems like a waste. The value would be that they would also need to be able to play 4-3 LDE which is already dominated by Lawrence so i cant see them seeing the field much without an injury.

Maybe it would get expanded in year 2 with a full offseason to install, but most of the 3-4 looks the Cowboys have had in 2020 are still mostly using 4-3 principals and responsibilities. I think we need to be careful about the 3-4 label when on a very high percentage of snaps the only thing making it a 3-4 is the weakside DE playing out of a 2 point stance.

This...we’re either running a 4-3 or 3-4 and trying to build the best roster to support either.

Yes, we will play some hybrid fronts from time to time but this is more so kicking current DEs inside.

It’s impossible to build a roster with quality depth for both a 3-4 and 4-3 defense.

 

[Cowboyny]

This...we’re either running a 4-3 or 3-4 and trying to build the best roster to support either.

Yes, we will play some hybrid fronts from time to time but this is more so kicking current DEs inside.

It’s impossible to build a roster with quality depth for both a 3-4 and 4-3 defense.

I believe that MM has the most familiarity with a 3-4 front. If Nolan gets fired, it wouldn't surprise me if they hired more of a 3-4 scheme type of DC. Although Nolan, didn't have the right personnel, he wanted the Cowboys to run a 3-4 two gap system, but allowed DLaw to either play standing or his hand in the dirt.

I believe a 3-4 transition is going to take place this off-season and that's how they are going to rebuild the defense. Thus, there is going to be a need of finding a NT and a 5 Tech 3-4 DE.

 

[cnuball21]

I believe that MM has the most familiarity with a 3-4 front. If Nolan gets fired, it wouldn't surprise me if they hired more of a 3-4 scheme type of DC. Although Nolan, didn't have the right personnel, he wanted the Cowboys to run a 3-4 two gap system, but allowed DLaw to either play standing or his hand in the dirt.

I believe a 3-4 transition is going to take place this off-season and that's how they are going to rebuild the defense. Thus, there is going to be a need of finding a NT and a 5 Tech 3-4 DE.

MM is an offensive guy...he might have run more 3-4 in GB but he's going to be counting on the current or future DC to run the defense.

If we extend Dak and keep the offense in tact I want no part of changing schemes and going through the growing pains associated with that. Just focus on adding talent to the current 4-3 crew.

 

[Cowboyny]

MM is an offensive guy...he might have run more 3-4 in GB but he's going to be counting on the current or future DC to run the defense.

If we extend Dak and keep the offense in tact I want no part of changing schemes and going through the growing pains associated with that. Just focus on adding talent to the current 4-3 crew.

It's going to be interesting who they decide to replace Nolan with. Do they bring in a 4-3 Coordinator to go back to a similar style of defense they have run over the last several yrs? That would be a far easier transition, but that type of Defense MM has already stated it doesn't want to run. Jerry might force his hand to go that route, but if MM get his way, I think a transition starts this offseason.

 

[cnuball21]

It's going to be interesting who they decide to replace Nolan with. Do they bring in a 4-3 Coordinator to go back to a similar style of defense they have run over the last several yrs? That would be a far easier transition, but that type of Defense MM has already stated it doesn't want to run. Jerry might force his hand to go that route, but if MM get his way, I think a transition starts this offseason.

Thats be a terrible mistake IMO. We don’t have the personnel for a 3-4. We’d essentially have to rebuild the entire DL, and our best player in Lawrence has no business as a 3-4 OLB.

If we were in complete rebuild mode I’d be more open but if we resign Dak and get healthy on the OL were immediately front runners in the NFCE.

 

[Cowboyny]

Thats be a terrible mistake IMO. We don’t have the personnel for a 3-4. We’d essentially have to rebuild the entire DL, and our best player in Lawrence has no business as a 3-4 OLB.

If we were in complete rebuild mode I’d be more open but if we resign Dak and get healthy on the OL were immediately front runners in the NFCE.

We are going to need a one technique no matter what scheme we play. DLaw is pretty much doing both now and is having a strong season after being injured early on. With Crawford leaving, probably going to need another DE/DT anyway. Point is, if they made the transition, wouldn't be as difficult as many think.

 

[DasSchnitzel]

Thats be a terrible mistake IMO. We don’t have the personnel for a 3-4. We’d essentially have to rebuild the entire DL, and our best player in Lawrence has no business as a 3-4 OLB.

If we were in complete rebuild mode I’d be more open but if we resign Dak and get healthy on the OL were immediately front runners in the NFCE.

I don’t think we need to close shop as a 4-3 team and reopen the next day as a 3-4 team with a new playbook.

What I would hope is that the DC is building around the 4-3 roster right now, adding things to the play book as new players arrive with new skill sets. So maybe we get a big 1tech fat guy and the DC decides to add a few packages where this guy also plays NT in a 3-4 blitz disguised as a 4-3 front.

That's the hybrid part in my opinion. It's not about being able to trot out a front 7 capable of full time play as both alignments. You're disguising things as other things and keeping the OL guessing with packages that could go either way.

 

[cnuball21]

We are going to need a one technique no matter what scheme we play. DLaw is pretty much doing both now and is having a strong season after being injured early on. With Crawford leaving, probably going to need another DE/DT anyway. Point is, if they made the transition, wouldn't be as difficult as many think.

DLaw is best with his hand in the dirt. He might drop back into coverage from time to time but that is not something we want him doing.

Yes, do want a 1T but we don't have anything with the length to fill that void now.

I don’t think we need to close shop as a 4-3 team and reopen the next day as a 3-4 team with a new playbook.

What I would hope is that the DC is building around the 4-3 roster right now, adding things to the play book as new players arrive with new skill sets. So maybe we get a big 1tech fat guy and the DC decides to add a few packages where this guy also plays NT in a 3-4 blitz disguised as a 4-3 front.

That's the hybrid part in my opinion. It's not about being able to trot out a front 7 capable of full time play as both alignments. You're disguising things as other things and keeping the OL guessing with packages that could go either way.

Sure, I’m on board and think that’s fair. I just don’t think it’s realistic or financial feasible to have a defensive roster with quality depth for both a 4-3 and 3-4.

 

[Cowboyny]

DLaw is best with his hand in the dirt. He might drop back into coverage from time to time but that is not something we want him doing.

Yes, do want a 1T but we don't have anything with the length to fill that void now.

All we have at the 1 is A. Woods (restricted fa), and a bunch of low level players. The team is going to need to address that position in a big way.

Ware was a player we didn't want in coverage as well, he was rushing the passer 95% of the time, but could drop back in certain packages to keep the offense guessing. I don't envision Lawrence covering all too much, he will be like Ware rushing the passer for the most part. The 3-4 allows flexibility to line him up all over the place.

This could go all out the window, if they decided to bring in a 4-3 coordinator. Basing all of this on what MM stated how he wants his defensive scheme.

Sure, I’m on board and think that’s fair. I just don’t think it’s realistic or financial feasible to have a defensive roster with quality depth for both a 4-3 and 3-4.

I think the majority of the so called hybrid defenses start with a 3-4 personnel up front. Since teams are in nickel 70% of the time in today's game, nobody really has a true base defense anymore. Teams will pull a linebacker off the field and replace him with more of a coverage player. That leaves 6 players in the box. Teams will use many different alignments to keep offenses guessing where pressure is coming from.

We heard prior to the season, MM wants 6 rushers and 4 interior defensive lineman. When they were looking at linebackers prior to the draft last year, we heard that they wanted a backer who can do it all, including rush abilities. The more you have, the more creative a DC can get. The down lineman in a 3-4 two gap system, isn't the same they used to play under Marinelli. 3-4 lineman primary job is to hold up blockers, so the linebackers can make the plays behind them. Marinelli wanted his tackles to penetrate their gap and rush the passer while playing the run on their way to the QB.

To answer the question, to effectively play a multiple scheme, in my opinion, you need 3-4 personnel to do so.

 

[Beaker42]

This...we’re either running a 4-3 or 3-4 and trying to build the best roster to support either.

Yes, we will play some hybrid fronts from time to time but this is more so kicking current DEs inside.

It’s impossible to build a roster with quality depth for both a 3-4 and 4-3 defense.

Cnuball21, I remember everybody being all giddy when Parcells switched us to a 3-4 and we got worse IMO. This roster is built for a 4-3 now and there aren’t any difference makers on D-line coming out that would help the 3-4 process. We just need to go BPA at each pick and get what we can on D. We need LB and secondary help more than D-line right now IMO but we need everything.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Cnuball21, I remember everybody being all giddy when Parcells switched us to a 3-4 and we got worse IMO. This roster is built for a 4-3 now and there aren’t any difference makers on D-line coming out that would help the 3-4 process. We just need to go BPA at each pick and get what we can on D. We need LB and secondary help more than D-line right now IMO but we need everything.

You had me fully on your side until the end. If this team doesn’t address the DT position this offseason it won’t matter who they bring in at LB or DB, best case scenario is mediocrity