58 Sack 2008 vs 42 Sack 2011

[Nation]

Pretty crazy given all the Spencer debates going on that the production out of our SOLB position was equal in 2008 when we had 58 sacks as a defense compared to 2011 when the team put up 42 total. Hopefully the youth movement at inside linebacker and adding some players on the defensive line can make a difference for the 2012 season


http://img11.*************/img11/2520/2008o.png

 

[ddh33]

I still believe everything about football starts right up the middle.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Pretty crazy given all the Spencer debates going on that the production out of our SOLB position was equal in 2008 when we had 58 sacks as a defense compared to 2011 when the team put up 42 total. Hopefully the youth movement at inside linebacker and adding some players on the defensive line can make a difference for the 2012 season


http://img11.*************/img11/2520/2008o.png

5.5 of those missing sacks are Jay Ratliff's. He had 7.5 in 2008 and only 2 last year. Last year we had 2 has-beens playing ILB. You honestly couldn't expect them to be sack machines. I'm not sure they ever rushed Sean Lee.

 

[gimmesix]

Pretty crazy given all the Spencer debates going on that the production out of our SOLB position was equal in 2008 when we had 58 sacks as a defense compared to 2011 when the team put up 42 total. Hopefully the youth movement at inside linebacker and adding some players on the defensive line can make a difference for the 2012 season


http://img11.*************/img11/2520/2008o.png

Based on looking at how the Jets pass-rushed mostly using the same scheme, I'd say the lack of sacks by the inside linebackers probably stands out the most.

Our defensive line sacks were better than the Jets, but they got over 11 sacks from their ILBs.

I really don't think it does much good to compare the 2008 production in Phillips' 3-4 to the 2011 Rob Ryan defense because the schemes are not that similar other than the fact that both run a variation of the 3-4.

It's probably not even exactly accurate of me to compare the two Ryans' schemes because I'm sure they both have different tendencies based on the personnel at hand. (For instance, Rex got less production from his outside linebackers than Rob did, so that could account for why the ILBs had greater production. Rex had to mix things up more.)

 

[Nation]

Based on looking at how the Jets pass-rushed mostly using the same scheme, I'd say the lack of sacks by the inside linebackers probably stands out the most.

Our defensive line sacks were better than the Jets, but they got over 11 sacks from their ILBs.

I really don't think it does much good to compare the 2008 production in Phillips' 3-4 to the 2011 Rob Ryan defense because the schemes are not that similar other than the fact that both run a variation of the 3-4.

No doubt, the point of the post was moreso to illustrate the fact that we don't need 35 sacks from our starting OLBs more than anything else.

 

[Muhast]

I wonder why bradie James had so much success that year but never any other seasons? It seems like we blitzed brooking more than him in 09 and 2010.

 

[gimmesix]

No doubt, the point of the post was moreso to illustrate the fact that we don't need 35 sacks from our starting OLBs more than anything else.

Not sure I can agree with that point. It all depends on how often each position was charged with rushing the passer.

For instance, if the ILBs only had a handful of blitz calls then they couldn't be expected to produce much pressure or sacks.

If the OLBs are schemed to be in the best position to get to the passer, then they have to put up greater numbers.

Same with the DL. At times, Ryan's scheme would give a player like Hatcher a favorable matchup and it was up to him to take advantage of it.

I think the only real measure of what we need from each position would be their success rate when rushing the passer. I don't think Spencer's was very high.

 

[gimmesix]

I wonder why bradie James had so much success that year but never any other seasons? It seems like we blitzed booking more than him in 09 and 2010.

I never understood that. Phillips had success with him and then almost completely backed off of it. Sometimes I think coaches outsmart themselves.

 

[Bluestang]

I never understood that. Phillips had success with him and then almost completely backed off of it. Sometimes I think coaches outsmart themselves.

Because we never had another ILB that could cover a back or TE on a hot route if Bradie blitzed.

Bradie had 8 sacks that year and didnt even get a look at the Pro Bowl.

We are still in the same boat this year having no one next to Lee to cover, so it leaves us to be predictable in regards to who will cover and who blitzes.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Because we never had another ILB that could cover a back or TE on a hot route if Bradie blitzed.

Bradie had 8 sacks that year and didnt even get a look at the Pro Bowl.

We are still in the same boat this year having no one next to Lee to cover, so it leaves us to be predictable in regards to who will cover and who blitzes.

Yeah that is the hope for Carter, that he makes our ILBs less predictable.

I'm glad he got a year to learn the system and not get disappointed by failure yet. Hopefully it will help him in the long run.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

2008 was the last year we had Canty and we have since lost Bowen. We also lost Burnett that year. Our ILBers have been suspect since Paytons first year at NO when he started the league train on exploiting them with backs and TEs though.

James has been a step behind backs and TE since 2006.

At least after Burnett left we had Carpenter to play nickel linebacker but last year from a coverage standpoint we fell apart with Carpenter gone and Newman losing a step and any shred of confidence. The year before it was the same but with Jenkins playing Newman's role.

 

[Bluestang]

I would also like to say that in '08 we also had Greg Ellis who was a darn good pass rusher but a mediocre cover/run guy. Spencer started to take over towards the end of the season because he was better at defending the run but was still developing as a pass rusher.

Ellis wasn't a great locker room guy but his pass rush skills were underrated IMO.

 

[junk]

I wonder why bradie James had so much success that year but never any other seasons? It seems like we blitzed brooking more than him in 09 and 2010.

If I remember correctly, I think that was partially scheme that year. I seem to remember James coming off the edge from time to time and I thought he got a few sacks that way.

 

[BIGDen]

2008 was the last year we had Canty and we have since lost Bowen. We also lost Burnett that year. Our ILBers have been suspect since Paytons first year at NO when he started the league train on exploiting them with backs and TEs though.

James has been a step behind backs and TE since 2006.

At least after Burnett left we had Carpenter to play nickel linebacker but last year from a coverage standpoint we fell apart with Carpenter gone and Newman losing a step and any shred of confidence. The year before it was the same but with Jenkins playing Newman's role.

This was an excellent post by someone who clearly watches the games and understands football. Nice job. This is exactly what I believe has occurred.

 

[JohnsKey19]

I never understood that. Phillips had success with him and then almost completely backed off of it. Sometimes I think coaches outsmart themselves.

I don't think Wade backed off. It just over time became very predictable. The opposition either stoned Bradie at the LOS or sent a hot route to the area he vacated.

Once the element of surprise was gone, Bradie's sacks were non-existent.

 

[burmafrd]

I don't think Wade backed off. It just over time became very predictable. The opposition either stoned Bradie at the LOS or sent a hot route to the area he vacated.

Once the element of surprise was gone, Bradie's sacks were non-existent.

Wade was a very good DC. So it seems clear that teams quickly adjusted and that was why James had that one odd year of being a sack man.

 

[Doomsday101]

I really hope to see more production from the ILB spot in terms of pass rushing. Brooking and James when sent on the inside blitz just were not getting to the QB. With Carter quickness and body control I hope he can find those gap up the middle and hit them quickly.

 

[Nation]

I never understood that. Phillips had success with him and then almost completely backed off of it. Sometimes I think coaches outsmart themselves.

We did have the #2 defense in terms of PPG the following season, so without looking at blitz percentages I think it is likely in 2009 we sacrificed some of the high risk-high reward plays for more of a bend but don't break philosophy. Not to be confused with 2010's bend and then break philosophy.

 

[Doomsday101]

We did have the #2 defense in terms of PPG the following season, so without looking at blitz percentages I think it is likely in 2009 we sacrificed some of the high risk-high reward plays for more of a bend but don't break philosophy. Not to be confused with 2010's bend and then break philosophy.

Only problem I have between the 2009 and 2010 as well as 2011 was the confusion that was taking place. You have guys not knowing where to be and out of position at the snap of the ball putting themselfs in a situation of chasing plays and it is hard to play catch up at this level. If you get beat at the snap it is pretty much over with

 

[supercowboy8]

In 2008
Spencer had 1.5 sacks
Greg Ellis had 8 sacks
Chris Canty had had 3 sacks
Jay Ratliff had 7.5 sacks
Marcus Spears had 1 sack
Tank Johnson had 1 sack
Jason Hatcher had 1 sack
Stepehn Bowen had 0 sacks
Kevin Burnett had 2 sacks
Bradie James had 8 sacks
Zach Thomas had 1 sack
Carlos Polk had 0 sacks
DeMarcus Ware had 20 Sacks
In 2008 the front 7 had 54 sacks
with out Ware the fornt 7 had 34.

In 2011
Spencer had 6 sacks
Victor Butler had 3 sacks
Jay Ratliff had 2 sacks
Marcus Spears had 1 sack
Jason Hatcher had 4.5 sacks
Bradie James had 0 sacks
Kieth Brooking 0 sacks
Sean Lee had 0 sacks
Bruce Carter had 0 sacks
Alex Albrigh had 0 sacks
Sean Lessimore had 2 sacks
Kenyon Coleman had 1 sack
Josh Brent had 0 sacks
DeMarcus Ware had 19.5 sacks
In 2011 the front 7 had 39 sacks
Without Ware they had 19.5 sacks.

Ware made up half of the entire front 7
We lost 8 sacks from James
We lost 5 sacks from Ratliff
Hatcher gave us 1.5 more than Canty.
Spencer gave us 2 less than Ellis but Butler gave us 1.5 more than what Spencer gave in 2008 to even that out.
The biggest difference is James 8 sacks and Ratliff 7.5 sacks in 2008.