A few PFF tidbits, Cowboys and others

[honyock]

After catching up on the Bernadeau/PFF thread, I subscribed to a month of PFF's premium stats. Here are a few Cowboys season grades and some grades of other players we've hashed over here:

OL:

MacKenzy Bernadeau #21 among guards (out of 75)
Ronald Leary #59 among guards, Much lower grades in pass pro than in run game.
Travis Frederick #9 among centers (out of 35)
Tyron Smith #12 among tackles, #9 among left tackles
Doug Free #18 among tackles, #6 among right tackles

Defense:

Jason Hatcher #5 in DT/NT category
Nick Hayden #68 of 69 at DT/NT
Sean Lee #6 at ILB
Barry Church #25 of 84 at safety
JJ Wilcox #53 at safety
Jeff Heath #64 at safety

I just saw that Zordon already has a thread with the cornerbacks, but here they are again:
Orlando Scandrick #24 of 112
Brandon Carr #44
Morris Claiborne #97

Other notables around the league:

Larry Warford #4 at guard
David DeCastro #13 at guard
Kevin Zeitler #25
Chance Warmack #48
Peter Konz #35 of 35 centers listed
Brian Schwenke #22 at center, the only other rookie on the center list
Eric Fisher #74 of 79 tackles
Tyson Clabo #66 of 79 tackles
Justin Pugh #40 at tackle
Shariff Floyd #53 of 69 at DT/NT
Tyrann Mathieu and Patrick Peterson #2 and #4 at CB. Not bad for your starting corners for the Cardinals.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Thought Matthieu was a safety

 

[85Cowboy85]

They really need to account for strength of competition at the tackle spot. What we ask Tyron Smith to do is a lot different then what we ask Doug Free to do. You can't just use the raw pressures/sacks given up to rank these guys.

One of the reasons why Clabo was so high last year was the Falcons basically hid his weaknesses. I watched a few of their games and on most plays where Matt Ryan was taking more then a three step drop he had help. Either a back was chipping or a TE was staying in on the line.

The fact that they had him ranked number 6 overall tackle was ridiculous as is Free being ranked above left tackles who are asked to take on opponents best pass rushers game after game.

 

[TrailBlazer]

They really need to account for strength of competition at the tackle spot. What we ask Tyron Smith to do is a lot different then what we ask Doug Free to do. You can't just use the raw pressures/sacks given up to rank these guys.

One of the reasons why Clabo was so high last year was the Falcons basically hid his weaknesses. I watched a few of their games and on most plays where Matt Ryan was taking more then a three step drop he had help. Either a back was chipping or a TE was staying in on the line.

The fact that they had him ranked number 6 overall tackle was ridiculous as is Free being ranked above left tackles who are asked to take on opponents best pass rushers game after game.

This is exactly why you can't rely solely on PFF grades. It's impossible to grade them correctly using some kind of formula. You just gotta watch them every play and make your own judgment. That's more accurate than any PFF grade IMO.

 

[FLcowboy]

Still, the grades reflect relativity to each position and how the players match up, using the same criteria. Maybe there ought to be a measurement for each coaching position. Wonder how Dallas would compare, say, to the Patriots?

 

[Nexx]

escobar or warford

 

[DogFace]

The Warford and mathieu non picks get me. Mathieu the most. If you watched him play in college you just knew.
I thought his character issues were over blown.
Would love to have had either or both.
I know they weren't on our board. They should have been IMO.

 

[morasp]

Castonzo? He was the next tackle taken after Smith.

 

[Future]

escobar or warford

Everyone who says this, I wonder, if before the draft they would be comfortable taking OL with the first two picks, and having two rookies starting on the interior of the OL.

 

[burmafrd]

The only good things on PFF is their stats. Otherwise their so called metrics and formulas are GARBAGE.

 

[burmafrd]

The Warford and mathieu non picks get me. Mathieu the most. If you watched him play in college you just knew.
I thought his character issues were over blown.
Would love to have had either or both.
I know they weren't on our board. They should have been IMO.

Mathieu's character concerns were NOT over blown. And I absolutely agree with not drafting him. You ought to ask yourself why so many teams took him right off their draft boards.

Now Warford to me is the much bigger question considering our needs. I have a feeling that the Boys had some inside dirt on him and that is why he was completely off our board. Would be a bummer to find out that that dirt was not accurate or that Warford had moved on from that.

 

[honyock]

Castonzo? He was the next tackle taken after Smith.

Castonzo is #29 at tackle. Nate Solder, who was also in the first round mix that year and who I think they Cowboys were rumored to have some interest in (drafted by the Patriots), is at #9 at tackle.

 

[honyock]

Thought Matthieu was a safety

I haven't watched too much of Arizona this year, but from reading on Matthieu, they've apparently moved him all over the secondary, but he's been used more at corner than anywhere else. PFF has him listed with the corners.

 

[honyock]

They really need to account for strength of competition at the tackle spot. What we ask Tyron Smith to do is a lot different then what we ask Doug Free to do. You can't just use the raw pressures/sacks given up to rank these guys.

One of the reasons why Clabo was so high last year was the Falcons basically hid his weaknesses. I watched a few of their games and on most plays where Matt Ryan was taking more then a three step drop he had help. Either a back was chipping or a TE was staying in on the line.

The fact that they had him ranked number 6 overall tackle was ridiculous as is Free being ranked above left tackles who are asked to take on opponents best pass rushers game after game.

About all you can do with PFF's rankings for tackles is to separate out the LT's from the RT's...at least they give that breakdown, it makes for a little more context in looking at the two positions.

The surprise for me was seeing Konz dead last among centers. He wasn't very good at guard last year, but I figured he'd benefit from the move back to center this year.

 

[Nova]

About all you can do with PFF's rankings for tackles is to separate out the LT's from the RT's...at least they give that breakdown, it makes for a little more context in looking at the two positions.

The surprise for me was seeing Konz dead last among centers. He wasn't very good at guard last year, but I figured he'd benefit from the move back to center this year.

PFF only assigns grades on how well the player did their job, rather than take into account the difficulty of their jobs. Not all LTs and RTs are asked to do the same thing. And as the case with Tyron, he's asked to do a lot more than Mr. Free, yet he's graded a lot lower when it's evident which player is better.

Word of muth did a really good article after the first game that highlighted how they put Smith on an island (Tyron Island?) against JPP. Here's the best image I took from it.

Don't get me wrong. PFF is very, very useful. I love the grading system and I love to use it as a quick reference for stats and/or hierarchy.

 

[RS12]

LOL! At the scouts on this board who said Warford didnt fit the scheme. You can either block or you cant.

 

[honyock]

PFF only assigns grades on how well the player did their job, rather than take into account the difficulty of their jobs. Not all LTs and RTs are asked to do the same thing. And as the case with Tyron, he's asked to do a lot more than Mr. Free, yet he's graded a lot lower when it's evident which player is better.

Word of muth did a really good article after the first game that highlighted how they put Smith on an island (Tyron Island?) against JPP. Here's the best image I took from it.

Don't get me wrong. PFF is very, very useful. I love the grading system and I love to use it as a quick reference for stats and/or hierarchy.

Yeah, I agree. About all you can do with PFF is break down left/right tackles, and beyond that, not much. Smith hasn't looked to have much help all year long, and he's been really good against some elite competition.

 

[jterrell]

The Warford and mathieu non picks get me. Mathieu the most. If you watched him play in college you just knew.
I thought his character issues were over blown.
Would love to have had either or both.
I know they weren't on our board. They should have been IMO.

Sorry but that's silly.

The Honey badger was a no go. Wayyyyy too many issues.
Repeatedly tested positive for weed usage then was caught in house full of weed.

It it hard to get kicked out of the LSU football program when you are a good player but he did.

Not sure what the issue was with Warford. A lot of folks here liked him and he played tough competition in the SEC. But the Honey Badger earned his way into the box and off our boards.

 

[Nova]

This is the picture I was trying to post above. It won't let me edit now.

Anyway, here you can clearly see Tyron, the one man army.

 

[cowboys2233]

The Warford and mathieu non picks get me. Mathieu the most. If you watched him play in college you just knew.
I thought his character issues were over blown.
Would love to have had either or both.
I know they weren't on our board. They should have been IMO.

We'll see. Great player, yes. But he is very small and I wonder if he'll wind up having an injury-filled career similar to Bob Sanders.