A few thoughts after the release of Flo and K Hamlin

[Woods]

I was with the family for a brief holiday, and when I checked the Zone upon return, I read that we released both Flo and K Hamlin.

I was initially surprised on the timing of the Flo move. I thought we would wait until after the Draft - and maybe even after TC to make sure we thought we had what we thought we had with Free at LT.

With respect to K Hamlin, I can't say that's a surprise. He just wasn't making the necessary number of plays to justify his salary.

Specifically, with respect to K Hamlin, I think the organization thought they could get similar production - if not better production - from Ball. The staff has always liked Ball, going back a couple of years, when they felt he had good instincts for the Secondary. The reason I say that the staff may feel they can get better production from Ball is that as Campo said, to paraphrase, is that Ball just needs more experience. With experience, Ball can potentially produce better than Hamlin.

Moving on to Flo, it appears that the staff was going to move on to Free regardless. It was going to be too expensive to have Flo earning $7.5mm sitting on the bench. That's too expensive depth for JJ to have to pay.

The question is why move on to Free and not have Free and Flo compete? I suppose for a couple of reasons. First, I think they are confident in what they have in Free. Second, I keep hearing that they are worried if Flo can maintain his level of play for an entire season - specifically, what happens in December and January?

Lastly, this is the year that the staff needs to know if they want to keep/extend Free or not. I believe that Free is approaching the end of his contract. A decision needs to be made either way.

My suggestion going forward would be that since the decision appears to be to go with Free, and that possibly Bigg is the primary back-up at this stage, we need to get very good depth at the OG position.

That's not to say we shouldn't draft another LT, but he won't be a viable replacement for Free (in case of injury) most likely until 2011. The primary back-up this year will be Bigg, as I understand.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I was with the family for a brief holiday, and when I checked the Zone upon return, I read that we released both Flo and K Hamlin.

I was initially surprised on the timing of the Flo move. I thought we would wait until after the Draft - and maybe even after TC to make sure we thought we had what we thought we had with Free at LT.

With respect to K Hamlin, I can't say that's a surprise. He just wasn't making the necessary number of plays to justify his salary.

Specifically, with respect to K Hamlin, I think the organization thought they could get similar production - if not better production - from Ball. The staff has always liked Ball, going back a couple of years, when they felt he had good instincts for the Secondary. The reason I say that the staff may feel they can get better production from Ball is that as Campo said, to paraphrase, is that Ball just needs more experience. With experience, Ball can potentially produce better than Hamlin.

Moving on to Flo, it appears that the staff was going to move on to Free regardless. It was going to be too expensive to have Flo earning $7.5mm sitting on the bench. That's too expensive depth for JJ to have to pay.

The question is why move on to Free and not have Free and Flo compete? I suppose for a couple of reasons. First, I think they are confident in what they have in Free. Second, I keep hearing that they are worried if Flo can maintain his level of play for an entire season - specifically, what happens in December and January?

Lastly, this is the year that the staff needs to know if they want to keep/extend Free or not. I believe that Free is approaching the end of his contract. A decision needs to be made either way.

My suggestion going forward would be that since the decision appears to be to go with Free, and that possibly Bigg is the primary back-up at this stage, we need to get very good depth at the OG position.

That's not to say we shouldn't draft another LT, but he won't be a viable replacement for Free (in case of injury) most likely until 2011. The primary back-up this year will be Bigg, as I understand.

Fine analysis Woods.

You didn't touch upon one major point though, and that's the potential impact on a cap in 2011 and the subject of "dead money".

With the moves made, $11 million dollars of dead-money was taken off the books.

Now put that into perspective...

Say the cap is $140 million, just for grins, which probably isn't an unrealistic figure, then $11 mill is what 8%?

That's a lot of dead money for two guys.

And that would be $11 million dollars of cap space that couldn't be used for players that would actually contribute to the 2011 season.

Adams was cut now because no matter what happens with the draft, Free was going to be the starter and Adams was gone. No sense giving away snaps to Adams, that Free needs to get prepared for 2010.

The cuts made perfect sense.

The only thing I regret is the contract Adams was given two years ago. But that's the subject of another rant.

 

[Jon88]

I think Adams was cut at this time so teams picking ahead of us in the draft who need an offensive lineman might sign him and then take a linebacker or defensive lineman instead.

 

[dbair1967]

The only thing I regret is the contract Adams was given two years ago. But that's the subject of another rant.

The Hamlin contract was worse. And we got NOTHING in return for him. At least Adams did shut down virtually every pass rusher he lined up against.

 

[theebs]

The Hamlin contract was worse. And we got NOTHING in return for him. At least Adams did shut down virtually every pass rusher he lined up against.

my lasting memory of hamlin is going to be him getting run over by cadillac williams this year in the opener and guessing wrong on the manning bomb when we had the lead 24-20 in week 2, scandrick was in perfect position with steve smith, had hamlin stayed deep its an easy pick. Instead it was as much a momentum turner as romos int the play before.

I dont know what that guys problem was but watching him in the stadium it appeared he lost his nerve to go into a pile and hit people and just seem to not want to tackle.

after having an abundance of talent in the early 90s at safety it is the position that has just given us headaches for years. I hope we can solve it this year.

Brett maxie has raved about michael hamlin and I hope he turns out to be a player.

 

[khiladi]

The Hamlin contract was worse. And we got NOTHING in return for him. At least Adams did shut down virtually every pass rusher he lined up against.

Agreed... Our line went to crap when Flozell went out against the Vikings... I'm iffy in the release of Flo, but Hamlin, I could care less...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The Hamlin contract was worse. And we got NOTHING in return for him. At least Adams did shut down virtually every pass rusher he lined up against.

Flozell gave up what? 8 sacks last year, which is OK, but not great.

But more importantly is that he's not going to get better at 35.

I doubt Free will give up double-digits in sacks. He looks good in pass protection.

 

[dbair1967]

Flozell gave up what? 8 sacks last year, which is OK, but not great.

But more importantly is that he's not going to get better at 35.

I doubt Free will give up double-digits in sacks. He looks good in pass protection.

I'm not saying I dont support the move, if they think Free is ready its the right thing to do.

I'm just saying Adams was a far better player than Hamlin and at least was a productive player.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm not saying I dont support the move, if they think Free is ready its the right thing to do.

I'm just saying Adams was a far better player than Hamlin and at least was a productive player.

Oh no question.

And I think that Adams still has some value, just not for amount he would have been paid in 2010 and for the amount of dead cap space it would have cost the team in 2011.

 

[craig71]

I don't see Free as being better than Flo at this point in time,but apparently Jerry and Co. do.Hopefully the move will work out not only this year but "will pay dividends" down the road as well in both the talent department and salary cap department(if one exists).I do believe that the fallout on Jerry and Co. will be immense if a suitable LT doesnt emerge and Romo gets creamed a few times.

Ken Hamlin was a waste of space for the most part since he got that contract extension,it was time to move on.Hopefully a draft pick or M.Hamlin/Ball will step up to the plate and bring some "playmaking" ability to the safety position in 2010.


Craig

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't see Free as being better than Flo at this point in time,but apparently Jerry and Co. do.Hopefully the move will work out not only this year but "will pay dividends" down the road as well in both the talent department and salary cap department(if one exists).I do believe that the fallout on Jerry and Co. will be immense if a suitable LT doesnt emerge and Romo gets creamed a few times.

Ken Hamlin was a waste of space for the most part since he got that contract extension,it was time to move on.Hopefully a draft pick or M.Hamlin/Ball will step up to the plate and bring some "playmaking" ability to the safety position in 2010.


Craig

He probably isn't better... but close? I think that's realistic.

But when you compare salaries for this season AND the elimination of all the dead-money weighing this team down in 2011...

Well I think it's a no-brainer.

 

[hornitosmonster]

I don't see Free as being better than Flo at this point in time,but apparently Jerry and Co. do.Hopefully the move will work out not only this year but "will pay dividends" down the road as well in both the talent department and salary cap department(if one exists).I do believe that the fallout on Jerry and Co. will be immense if a suitable LT doesnt emerge and Romo gets creamed a few times.

Ken Hamlin was a waste of space for the most part since he got that contract extension,it was time to move on.Hopefully a draft pick or M.Hamlin/Ball will step up to the plate and bring some "playmaking" ability to the safety position in 2010.


Craig

I think your overvaluing Flo. Yes, he was great but but he along with other LT in the league gives up sacks.

No QB should go into a season thinking you would never get sacked. Romo should expect to get creamed a few times regardless of who is at LT. It is going to happen.

 

[Angus]

I was with the family for a brief holiday, and when I checked the Zone upon return, I read that we released both Flo and K Hamlin.

I was initially surprised on the timing of the Flo move. I thought we would wait until after the Draft - and maybe even after TC to make sure we thought we had what we thought we had with Free at LT.

With respect to K Hamlin, I can't say that's a surprise. He just wasn't making the necessary number of plays to justify his salary.

Specifically, with respect to K Hamlin, I think the organization thought they could get similar production - if not better production - from Ball. The staff has always liked Ball, going back a couple of years, when they felt he had good instincts for the Secondary. The reason I say that the staff may feel they can get better production from Ball is that as Campo said, to paraphrase, is that Ball just needs more experience. With experience, Ball can potentially produce better than Hamlin.

Moving on to Flo, it appears that the staff was going to move on to Free regardless. It was going to be too expensive to have Flo earning $7.5mm sitting on the bench. That's too expensive depth for JJ to have to pay.

The question is why move on to Free and not have Free and Flo compete? I suppose for a couple of reasons. First, I think they are confident in what they have in Free. Second, I keep hearing that they are worried if Flo can maintain his level of play for an entire season - specifically, what happens in December and January?

Lastly, this is the year that the staff needs to know if they want to keep/extend Free or not. I believe that Free is approaching the end of his contract. A decision needs to be made either way.

My suggestion going forward would be that since the decision appears to be to go with Free, and that possibly Bigg is the primary back-up at this stage, we need to get very good depth at the OG position.

That's not to say we shouldn't draft another LT, but he won't be a viable replacement for Free (in case of injury) most likely until 2011. The primary back-up this year will be Bigg, as I understand.

McQuistan is likely to still be there.

 

[Woods]

McQuistan is likely to still be there.

For some reason, that doesn't give me much comfort. :laugh2:

 

[theogt]

At least Adams did shut down virtually every pass rusher he lined up against.

Adams was by far our worse lineman in 2009. He had a horrible year (as in, among the worst tackles in the league in 2009).

 

[theogt]

Flozell gave up what? 8 sacks last year, which is OK, but not great.

But more importantly is that he's not going to get better at 35.

I doubt Free will give up double-digits in sacks. He looks good in pass protection.

Eight sacks is not "okay." It's pretty bad -- it will put you among the worst in the league every year. On top of that he gave up 34 QB pressures, which is abysmal.

To say that Flozell was more productive than Hamlin is silly (I know you didn't say that MW).

 

[jobberone]

Eight sacks is not "okay." It's pretty bad -- it will put you among the worst in the league every year. On top of that he gave up 34 QB pressures, which is abysmal.

To say that Flozell was more productive than Hamlin is silly (I know you didn't say that MW).

That's misleading. It put him in the bottom half of the league but closer to the mean in sacks given up than the bottom of the league.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

That's misleading. It put him in the bottom half of the league but closer to the mean in sacks given up than the bottom of the league.

Yes, it may be misleading but given Flozell's salary/age/future productivity, a change at the position was needed.

 

[theogt]

That's misleading. It put him in the bottom half of the league but closer to the mean in sacks given up than the bottom of the league.

Well, okay, it will put you about average for the worst in the league. And that's with probably the best QB in the league at avoiding sacks with his legs and quick release.

In other words, if it would not have been Romo back there, 8 sacks would have been double digits easily. That's not the same Flozell Adams we signed up to a major contract.

 

[dbair1967]

Eight sacks is not "okay." It's pretty bad -- it will put you among the worst in the league every year. On top of that he gave up 34 QB pressures, which is abysmal.

To say that Flozell was more productive than Hamlin is silly (I know you didn't say that MW).

Whats even sillier is continuing to defend a guy who is one of the least productive starting FS's in the league, even though he's surrounded by alot of bigtime talent.

I'm guessing Adams will end up in alot higher demand than Hamlin will. Hamlin probably wont even be a starter on anyone's team, barring injury or just desperation.