CFZ A few ways to improve officiating

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[The Quest for Six]

It would actually be faster

More stoppages and more booth reviews won't make games faster, that's nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The USFL uses a chip in the ball - they don't even have a chain gang for first downs - and it works. The NFL should absolutely steal that idea and use it.

The full time thing never adds up for me. Players and coaches are full time, watch lots of video, yet they have screw ups every week. The notion that making refs do that all year is going to get rid of mistakes doesn't fly. Besides, officials don't make millions like players and coaches. Expecting them to give up their livelihoods will end up with new officials for whom a ref salary is an upgrade. What kind of quality do you think that will attract?

I do think replay should be used more extensively, and each play reviewed like in college. The NFL just refuses to fully embrace technology. They'll say it would make the games too long, but the reason games take 3+ hours are the commercials. It has nothing to with the game itself, but that's not going to change.

Exactly, and, having been to a few USFL games (including the championship game), they're incredibly efficient with their reviews. They review pretty much everything, and it still takes about the normal time to complete a game.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I agree with most of this, but the NFL as a whole, is no better than Jerry when it comes to publicity. They love all publicity and the more controversy the better.

Hence how Jerry gets away with what he does lol

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Of course not.

We didn't get away with ANY penalties. We NEVER do.

The other teams always get away with 30 to 40 penalties. They ALWAYS do (at least when we lose)

It just makes sense.

It's hilarious that you're saying that to Marcus when he's one of the ones on here that gets quite adamant when a call goes our way. He's one of the more down the line posters. If anything, he should be a ref with his knowledge of the rules.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

More stoppages and more booth reviews won't make games faster, that's nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

It works in the USFL. The length of game usually runs about the normal length of a football game, and they review pretty much everything.

 

[mardwin]

There needs to be pressure on the league to get officiating right. Errors will happen but what we saw in Philadelphia against Dallas and Miami is totaling inexcusable. There's a "Series" of bad calls I'm critical moments in the those games. The fact that we have all these technology and still get it wrong is a bad reflection in the league.

 

[CWR]

Exactly. They have to care enough to make improvements.

 

[CWR]

Of course not.

We didn't get away with ANY penalties. We NEVER do.

The other teams always get away with 30 to 40 penalties. They ALWAYS do (at least when we lose)

It just makes sense.

Lol, know your audience.

 

[Brax]

Simplify some of the rules. Way too much is left to random interpretation.

Bingo the 2 biggest should be illegal contact allow contact except when the ball is in the air like it use to be. The other is the roughing the QB it’s totally out of hand.

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

You wrote all that to talk about one missed hold tayt you say is obvious? There were a minimum of 7 bad ones against the Cowboys d line. So bad point.

Chase Daniel also mentioned in his breakdown of Dak that Eagles DB’s were holding all game long and didn’t get called for them once.

How many flags were picked up for the Eagles on key situations? Anyone can argue holds are missed, but it’s rare things like picking up a flag on an obvious penalty that you need to focus on. Has that ever happened for us? Name it if so and I’ll be happy.

10 flags were thrown against Philly.

You say there were 7 bad missed holds against Cowboys pass rushers.

So assuming you think the 10 flags that were actually thrown against Philly were legit (they were)....if you add these AT LEAST 7 missed ones against our pass rushers we're now up to 17 flags you say should have been called against them.

You then say eagles DBs were holding all game long. Well there were 30 or so Dak passes....so fair to say "all game long" would equate to half or a 3rd of those passes at least involved holding by eagles dbacks? That's another 10 to 15. Let's split difference and say 13.

13 plus 17....we're now up to 30 flags you think should have been thrown. And I'm assuming you are one that insists the Eagles false start at least 10 times a game and don't get called?

So keep adding.....and now we're in time the 35 to 40 flags range.

Step back for a moment....and really envision that. 40 flags. The record is 23... and that rendered the game unwatchable and enraged fans and got the league to work to make the game more palatable. Imagine....TWICE that. 40. And that's really...REALLY....what the fans in here, including you, feel our opponents deserved when they play us....EVERY game (every game we lose at least).

Yet nobody in here steps back for a moment...thinks....and goes "wait....40 flags WOULD be insane....we need a reality check!"

It's fascinating to see what people think they deserve!

 

[mmohican29]

What P.I? The Hitchens play?

It was OPI before DPI anyway

 

[DogFace]

10 flags were thrown against Philly.

You say there were 7 bad missed holds against Cowboys pass rushers.

So assuming you think the 10 flags that were actually thrown against Philly were legit (they were)....if you add these AT LEAST 7 missed ones against our pass rushers we're now up to 17 flags you say should have been called against them.

You then say eagles DBs were holding all game long. Well there were 30 or so Dak passes....so fair to say "all game long" would equate to half or a 3rd of those passes at least involved holding by eagles dbacks? That's another 10 to 15. Let's split difference and say 13.

13 plus 17....we're now up to 30 flags you think should have been thrown. And I'm assuming you are one that insists the Eagles false start at least 10 times a game and don't get called?

So keep adding.....and now we're in time the 35 to 40 flags range.

Step back for a moment....and really envision that. 40 flags. The record is 23... and that rendered the game unwatchable and enraged fans and got the league to work to make the game more palatable. Imagine....TWICE that. 40. And that's really...REALLY....what the fans in here, including you, feel our opponents deserved when they play us....EVERY game (every game we lose at least).

Yet nobody in here steps back for a moment...thinks....and goes "wait....40 flags WOULD be insane....we need a reality check!"

It's fascinating to see what people think they deserve!

I didn’t say they were holding all game a professional analyst did. He said in a casual matter fact type of way.

You have to use your head some. But I will help because it’s fascinating how you reason and I want to correct it.

If they called them for some of the infractions they were committing they likely stop doing it. Until that time they will push it. That’s why they were called for blatant ones at the end and couldn’t understand it. Like “we’ve been doing this all day” That’s common sense and sports sense to know teams will get away with what they can.

Bottom line. Most anyone that watched the game, including one of my good friends who’s one of your fellow eagles fans, admitted they got many key breaks from the refs.

How many flags were picked up In favor or the Cowboys? Picking up a flag on egregious penalties like hands to the face is pretty obviously a strange call.

 

[gtb1943]

I didn’t say they were holding all game a professional analyst did. He said in a casual matter fact type of way.

You have to use your head some. But I will help because it’s fascinating how you reason and I want to correct it.

If they called them for some of the infractions they were committing they likely stop doing it. Until that time they will push it. That’s why they were called for blatant ones at the end and couldn’t understand it. Like “we’ve been doing this all day” That’s common sense and sports sense to know teams will get away with what they can.

Bottom line. Most anyone that watched the game, including one of my good friends who’s one of your fellow eagles fans, admitted they got many key breaks from the refs.

How many flags were picked up In favor or the Cowboys? Picking up a flag on egregious penalties like hands to the face is pretty obviously a strange call.

Just shows how low the quality of officials are

The league SHOULD have it ironclad that you call the same way all the time; do your job right and let the chips fall
BUT the league does not do that
The league also changes the rules yearly which is even dumber
In the end the real problem is the NFL
They CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE EXCELLENT OFFICIATING

 

[DogFace]

It works in the USFL. The length of game usually runs about the normal length of a football game, and they review pretty much everything.

Sorry. You maybe mentioned it earlier.

So any close call is automatically reviewed? A guy watching on monitors with many angles etc?? In real time?

Sounds good

 

[sunalsorises]

The chip in the ball should have already been utilized. Other sports like the premier soccer league (PSL) in England already use a chip in their soccer ball to give instantaneous scoring feedback without delay.

The frustrating thing about the NFL is their stinginess to address some of these problems. They are a multi-billion dollar sports league with billions in profits every year yet they are very slow to commit resources to address some of these judgement call issues in the league.

The NFL just shrugged their shoulders at probably the most egregious call of the 21st century when they allowed the obvious PI that wasn’t called in the 2018 NFC championship game where the saints were robbed. They half heartedly allowed the appeals of PI calls in 2019 but it was an obvious sham.

I wonder if a chip in the ball would even work. It would tell refs where the ball is but not when a player is down. In soccer it's just did the ball cross the line but in football it's where was the ball when the player is down.

 

[Bobhaze]

I wonder if a chip in the ball would even work. It would tell refs where the ball is but not when a player is down. In soccer it's just did the ball cross the line but in football it's where was the ball when the player is down.

It would work on scoring opportunities. The second the ball crosses the goal line, a light would go on. Replay could confirm any marginal situations where the knee may be down before ball crossed goal line.

It’s not perfect but better than what we currently have.

 

[Creeper]

The chip in the ball is a no brainer. The technology is there and I don't believe the cost is out of the means of the NFL.

Replay for penalties should be implemented but not as coaches challenges. There are too many penalties called to ask the coaches to give up time outs to review penalties. When a penalty is called there is always a time out. The refs usually discuss the penalty and the spot of the ball which gives the replay booth people a chance to review the play. I don't expect many reversals of penalties but we all see the ones they call that are pretty bad. Maybe they reverse one or two a game. It is still better than what we see now. I don't think this works for penalties not called though. Here I would go with the idea someone else posted. If a replay for a TD, fumble, INT or other call is used and the refs see an obnvious penalty, like PI, facemask, etc. then the penalty should be called. This would help get call right, it might also cause coaches to refrain from unnecessary replays.

Replay should also be used for illegal formation calls, encroachment, offsides and false start penalties. So amny times you see a defensive lineman get a good jump and the refs call it offsides, but the replay shows he did not enter the neurtral zone beofre the ball was snapped. Replay could fix these calls. Other times we see OTs move early and it is not called. I have no idea why refs decided to stop calling these false starts but you see it a lot now around the league. Lane Johnson does it several times per game and rarely if ever gets called. The Eagles OL is successful on that Tush Push because they are really quick at the snap. It is a huge advantage to an offensive linement to get out of his stance before teh DL can get his hands on him.

The problem in the NFL is probably as much penalties that are not called as much as penalties that are called.

I also think they need to go back to the rules and call penalties according to the rules - or change the rules. For example, an uncatchable ball should negate any PI called. You rarely see the ref signal an uncatchable ball anymore.

For illegal contact, call it every time or change the rule to allow it. We complain about the refs because one play we see a receiver get mugged downfield, and the next play we see minor incidental contact 6 yards beyond the LOS called.

Hands to the face is either allowed or not allowed. It is called sometimes, but a lot of times you see it and the refs let it go. Holding is another one. Everyone grabs the sholderpads when they block and it they stay squared it is not called, but then if the guy being blocked turns and the blocker does not let go immediately, the refs call holding - sometimes. Other times they ignore it. Consistency would go a long way to calming everyone's concerns about penalties.

Finally, it is the refs. full time refs that get together and work on penalties calls, review videos, and get instruction in practical labs would improve the officiating. But they are still humans so they will made big mistakes. Major league baseball umpires are full time and they made some ball calls too.

 

[Flinger]

I think it's been said many times and ways that the officiating in the NFL is bad. This thread is not about that. In fact, I think it's worth checking out a video from 5 Point Vids (a Giants fan tbf) who did a video about the science about bad officiating. I think it will help understand why officiating has it's issues. One of the big issues that is mentioned is the vantage point and the lack of use of technology. After all, the refs are human. They only have two eyes each for a crew of about 6-8 refs on the field. So, that's about 12-16 eyeballs that are on the field that have to be able to make the calls. That's basically where this thread comes into play. This thread will examine a few ways to improve officiating. Most of these will be tech solutions as these are the best ways that I can think of to help.

• Put a chip into the ball - football is a game of inches, and where the refs spot the ball makes a massive difference between a TD, first downs, Turn over on Downs, etc. Sometimes, as was the case in the Rams Steelers game or on the Hurts scramble against us, the refs might not be able to tell, based on an angle, where the ball was when the knee hit. If the ball had a chip in it, then there could be a signal that gets sent to the replay booth to show exactly where the ball was when the knee hit. Thus, when a player is in a pile, then they just have to match up where the chip is compared to the knee. This should make spotting the ball much easier. Besides, in European Football/soccer, the match balls have a chip in them to help the refs to be able to know if the ball did indeed cross the line. They can do something similar in the NFL.
• Make penalties/plays where a penalty could be called reviewable - this doesn't necessarily mean that a coach would have to challenge it, though this could be useful if the refs don't pick it up. Rather, similar to how the refs will be told quickly by the replay officials that a turnover should be quickly overturned, they can be told quickly by someone with a controller who can quickly spot an infraction on a replay. For example, when Schoonmacher was hit prior to the ball getting there, the hit could be part of the review so that they can make the correct call based on the entirety of the play, as opposed to just reviewing the parts that they can review with the current rules.
• Make the refs full time - this would help because, as opposed to having the refs have side jobs, they can spend their offseasons getting better and honing their craft. They can attend seminars where they can focus on certain aspects that they may not be able to focus on at this time.
• Better technology for replays - the replay speed in the XFL and USFL is impressive compared to the NFL. If you have watched an XFL game, you'll notice that they have people with an Xbox controller who can zoom in and do all kinds of different things in a rapid time to spot different things in a replay. Pat McAfee has pointed this out several times on his show. I think using some of the technology the XFL uses would help improve the NFL because all aspects of the play could be more rapidly reviewed. This means that they are able to review the play and get back to play more quickly. Thus, the concern for questionable officiating can be reduced because the technology used is better able to help the refs make the right calls.

The NFL makes hand over fist weekly. Surely they can afford these techniques if even the XFL is able to afford it. I think these methods would help improve officiating immensely.

Very good points, sir...

It is my belief that the NFL simply wants variability and human error. It sells. Controversy sells. It is how the media makes money - they sell controversy and make some up if it isn't already there... It is all about the money.

It explains why they will not hire full time professional refs. It explains why they will not use currently available technology (see VAR for Premier Soccer or US Open Tennis - exact precision of whether a ball crosses a line or not. Down to the milimeter. Exact replay of players on a field or pitch, in exact positions, with exact locations of hands, arms & feet - that allows precision in determining whether a penalty is awarded or not).

The NFL could do these things but they don't.... why?

One reason... money... secondary reason... gambling...

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

I didn’t say they were holding all game a professional analyst did. He said in a casual matter fact type of way.

You have to use your head some. But I will help because it’s fascinating how you reason and I want to correct it.

If they called them for some of the infractions they were committing they likely stop doing it. Until that time they will push it. That’s why they were called for blatant ones at the end and couldn’t understand it. Like “we’ve been doing this all day” That’s common sense and sports sense to know teams will get away with what they can.

Bottom line. Most anyone that watched the game, including one of my good friends who’s one of your fellow eagles fans, admitted they got many key breaks from the refs.

How many flags were picked up In favor or the Cowboys? Picking up a flag on egregious penalties like hands to the face is pretty obviously a strange call.

I'll answer that question if you answer my original one first:

There were 10 flags thrown against Philly...more yds...more 1st downs penalized. HOW MANY FLAGS DO YOU THINK SHOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN AGAINST THEM? A number....not just some vague way to circumvent it.

I agree the Eagles benefited from some calls and non calls. I also think Dallas did. I think this is common occurrence in almost all games. Do you think Dallas benefited from any non calls against them...?

So...what's your number of flags that SHOULD have been thrown against Philly. 10 were thrown...what should the number have been?

(Ignore caps lock sentence up there....not sure why all caps lock but don't want to retype)