A suprising weakness for the Cowboys

[xwalker]

He did play RT in College and his first Cowboy season.
Hopefully it will come back to him.

Tyron was good. He was as good or better than Steele already. The OP is total nonsense.

 

[john van brocklin]

Tyron was good. He was as good or better than Steele already. The OP is total nonsense.

Hope you are right.
Us fans don't really know how to grade linemen in most cases.

 

[nathanlt]

Tyron was good. He was as good or better than Steele already. The OP is total nonsense.

Ok, full disclaimer... I'm not an offensive line coach or expert. I simply expected Tyron to lock it down, and he didn't. Your repeated comment of "nonsense" doesn't explain much. I'll defer to your forthcoming explanation of why Tyron was so dominant on the right side. Still trying to be respectful here... but... convince me.

The 8:30 mark in the 3rd quarter was one really bad play for him. I'm looking for the other specific examples.
The 6:30 mark in the 3rd was an example of Jason Peters having a really bad play.

The 3:00 mark in the 3rd was another example where Jason Peters didn't stop the defender long enough.

 

[Creeper]

I am sure he is struggling with the switch, struggling for him anyway. But he has lost some lateral mobility, even when he was playing LT last year. There was a time when Tyron got his hands on you and you were done. No one got around him or inside him. Now, some guys can get around him because he is not as quick stepping out. I imagine it will take time for him to feel completely comfy over there. He still has the power to lock guys down though. If he gets in front of his guy, it is over.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Peaking at the right time!

 

[nathanlt]

I am sure he is struggling with the switch, struggling for him anyway. But he has lost some lateral mobility, even when he was playing LT last year. There was a time when Tyron got his hands on you and you were done. No one got around him or inside him. Now, some guys can get around him because he is not as quick stepping out. I imagine it will take time for him to feel completely comfy over there. He still has the power to lock guys down though. If he gets in front of his guy, it is over.

I like it. I'm hoping that he is able to blend dominance and consistency on the right side. Durability is my hope as well, I am glad Tyron has been on the Cowboys, and I hope that he stays for as long as he can hold up. This thread has been more about the RT position.

 

[nathanlt]

Finally, the infamous 3rd and 10 play in the 4th quarter, Tyron did not lock his man down. If he had, Dak would have had more time to survey the field. I wouldn't call it a bad play, because the defender stunted inside, (not Tyron's fault). However, if Tyron had gotten his hands on him, that pressure would have never been in Dak's face. Hopefully, Tyron's dominance increases on the right side.

 

[xwalker]

Ok, full disclaimer... I'm not an offensive line coach or expert. I simply expected Tyron to lock it down, and he didn't. Your repeated comment of "nonsense" doesn't explain much. I'll defer to your forthcoming explanation of why Tyron was so dominant on the right side. Still trying to be respectful here... but... convince me.

The 8:30 mark in the 3rd quarter was one really bad play for him. I'm looking for the other specific examples.
The 6:30 mark in the 3rd was an example of Jason Peters having a really bad play.

The 3:00 mark in the 3rd was another example where Jason Peters didn't stop the defender long enough.

Good response. I see now that you're not just complaining or trolling.

• I welcome a good debate. No problem discussing this issue.

• Peters:
  • I said good enough. I didn't say good. They can run the offense with his performance; although I don't think he can hold up for a full game.

• Tyron:
  • You have to compare to other OTs, not to perfection.
  • If you analyze Steele in past games, he normally has as many or more "non-perfect" plays as Tyron had.
  • The Q3 8:30 play is the run play I mentioned in the review thread. It was mental error.
  • Tyron is moving really well. He was quick on some pulls.
  • He is incredibly strong.

• More on Peters
  • Originally I thought he had a big fail on the 1st INT play but after reviewing I can't really expect the OT to guard against the pass rusher going back towards the line with Dak just standing there.
  • Dak needs to keep moving once he rolls to one side but he tends to move 2 steps up and 2 steps over in the pocket which is a bad place to stop.
  • Dak did something similar earlier in the game when Tyron was playing.

 

[xwalker]

Finally, the infamous 3rd and 10 play in the 4th quarter, Tyron did not lock his man down. If he had, Dak would have had more time to survey the field. I wouldn't call it a bad play, because the defender stunted inside, (not Tyron's fault). However, if Tyron had gotten his hands on him, that pressure would have never been in Dak's face. Hopefully, Tyron's dominance increases on the right side.

That was a Tackle-End Stunt.

Martin has to slow the inside player down (the Tackle) before he slams into Tyron while Tyron is already engaged with the End.

Martin intentionally delayed about 1 step because top priority was to guard the inside gap off the snap.

Normally Martin would hand off the T to Tyron and pickup the E but the T got too much penetration.

Dak had over 4 seconds on that play before releasing the pass. I have no idea why they tried to hit such a deep route.

That specific stunt only works if the QB holds the ball a long time. Normally the E can't stay in contact all the way though to the T getting penetration before releasing to loop inside; otherwise the QB has already released the ball well before the E can loop all the way around.

A coaching point on that play would be for Pollard not to commit to moving up to the line quite as quickly. He moved up to help McGovern but McGovern appeared to have his guy blocked.

 

[Creeper]

That was a Tackle-End Stunt.

Martin has to slow the inside player down (the Tackle) before he slams into Tyron while Tyron is already engaged with the End.

Martin intentionally delayed about 1 step because top priority was to guard the inside gap off the snap.

Normally Martin would hand off the T to Tyron and pickup the E but the T got too much penetration.

Dak had over 4 seconds on that play before releasing the pass. I have no idea why they tried to hit such a deep route.

That specific stunt only works if the QB holds the ball a long time. Normally the E can't stay in contact all the way though to the T getting penetration before releasing to loop inside; otherwise the QB has already released the ball well before the E can loop all the way around.

A coaching point on that play would be for Pollard not to commit to moving up to the line quite as quickly. He moved up to help McGovern but McGovern appeared to have his guy blocked.

That play was a miscommunication between Martin and Tyron. I am sure that was lack of familiarity. The more they play together the smoother those handoffs will be. We should expect those kinds of problems initially. It takes time for an OL to gel together.

 

[nathanlt]

That was a Tackle-End Stunt.

Martin has to slow the inside player down (the Tackle) before he slams into Tyron while Tyron is already engaged with the End.

Martin intentionally delayed about 1 step because top priority was to guard the inside gap off the snap.

Normally Martin would hand off the T to Tyron and pickup the E but the T got too much penetration.

Dak had over 4 seconds on that play before releasing the pass. I have no idea why they tried to hit such a deep route.

That specific stunt only works if the QB holds the ball a long time. Normally the E can't stay in contact all the way though to the T getting penetration before releasing to loop inside; otherwise the QB has already released the ball well before the E can loop all the way around.

A coaching point on that play would be for Pollard not to commit to moving up to the line quite as quickly. He moved up to help McGovern but McGovern appeared to have his guy blocked.

Thanks, I'm glad to hear your perspective on it, a lot of elements in that line play. Overall, I wish the play call had been a run to burn the Jags last timeout myself. A decision to run would have confiscated the last timeout, and would have allowed Dallas to run an additional 40 seconds off the clock. Sometimes there's a lot of wisdom in being clinical when you protect a lead.

 

[nathanlt]

Good response. I see now that you're not just complaining or trolling.

• I welcome a good debate. No problem discussing this issue.

• Peters:
  • I said good enough. I didn't say good. They can run the offense with his performance; although I don't think he can hold up for a full game.

• Tyron:
  • You have to compare to other OTs, not to perfection.
  • If you analyze Steele in past games, he normally has as many or more "non-perfect" plays as Tyron had.
  • The Q3 8:30 play is the run play I mentioned in the review thread. It was mental error.
  • Tyron is moving really well. He was quick on some pulls.
  • He is incredibly strong.

• More on Peters
  • Originally I thought he had a big fail on the 1st INT play but after reviewing I can't really expect the OT to guard against the pass rusher going back towards the line with Dak just standing there.
  • Dak needs to keep moving once he rolls to one side but he tends to move 2 steps up and 2 steps over in the pocket which is a bad place to stop.
  • Dak did something similar earlier in the game when Tyron was playing.

That is correct, not complaining or trolling... just discussing and looking for a good perspective. Thanks for taking the time to comment in such detail!

 

[Chuck 54]

Having had almost no practice for 4 months, I’m sure Tyron would have struggled at either T spot. In recent years, he has given up pressures to speed rushers.

 

[jazzcat22]

I like the idea of….

Tyron…Tyler….Biadasz….McGovern…Martin

I don’t expect they will do that, but if you’re asking what I’d do…

Too many moving parts.
Do what is least movement and allow Tyron to get back in a groove. It was his first game in almost a year.

 

[fivetwos]

Too many moving parts.
Do what is least movement and allow Tyron to get back in a groove. It was his first game in almost a year.

Yep, and that’s what they don’t want to do.

But I’d keep an eye on this. If it runs like a well oiled machine I’d leave it be. If there’s struggles of any kind, I’d consider it.

We arguably get better at three positions, and worse at only one (RG) and it’s still the same five players.

This is one of those times where you trust the coaches rather than go wild over thinking they are wrong.

The best news is that Steele has played himself into being a very nice find.

 

[kskboys]

I rewatched the Jags game, and was surprised how much Tyron and Jason Peters struggled at right tackle. It was a real problem for the Cowboys, pretty much all game. There were even a few times that Tyron completely whiffed on his block, and the defender went right past him.

All the footwork is backwards for Tyron, and if it really is that difficult for him on the right side, you'd almost consider swapping Tyler and Tyron, risking the cohesiveness of the O-line altogether.

If Tyron does another week of practice on the right side, it could be exponentially better, and so I'm looking forward to seeing what this week looks like. He might get the hang of it, unless coaches become convinced that you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

What would you do, if you were the O-line coach?

They're old.

 

[Captain43Crash]

I bet Tyron looks good when they run the ball, so run the ball.

Maybe possible if this was Pee Wee Football.

 

[Typhus]

Ok, full disclaimer... I'm not an offensive line coach or expert. I simply expected Tyron to lock it down, and he didn't. Your repeated comment of "nonsense" doesn't explain much. I'll defer to your forthcoming explanation of why Tyron was so dominant on the right side. Still trying to be respectful here... but... convince me.

The 8:30 mark in the 3rd quarter was one really bad play for him. I'm looking for the other specific examples.
The 6:30 mark in the 3rd was an example of Jason Peters having a really bad play.

The 3:00 mark in the 3rd was another example where Jason Peters didn't stop the defender long enough.

The last time Tyron played RT was 11 years ago, so let's be a little bit patient with the transition taking place.

 

[Captain43Crash]

Yep, and that’s what they don’t want to do.

But I’d keep an eye on this. If it runs like a well oiled machine I’d leave it be. If there’s struggles of any kind, I’d consider it.

We arguably get better at three positions, and worse at only one (RG) and it’s still the same five players.

This is one of those times where you trust the coaches rather than go wild over thinking they are wrong.

The best news is that Steele has played himself into being a very nice find.

The best news is we have a good RT for next year? We’ve been saying stuff like this for 27 years.
The best news would be, we have 5 guys that can do the job THIS year!

I like the lineup with Martin at RT, but rotate McGovern and Peters at RG. Eventually play who does the best job.

 

[Captain43Crash]

Nonsense.

What was nonsense in your opinion? Tyron played better or worse?