According to Polian, he learned this defense from Dungy who created it with Monte Kiffin

[Chuck 54]

Polian holds no hope of our defense suddenly improving. I have to agree; the adage goes, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ____."

According to Polian, he learned this defense from Dungy who created it with Monte Kiffin. Polian says the DL is the lynch pin; you need playmakers at every position, DE and DT, and "Dallas has none due to injury. Without the DL making plays, everything else in this defense falls apart."

DUH....poor drafting, ignoring the position hurt our 3-4 and continues to kill our 4-3 in the face of injuries.
I'm hopeful that Hatcher and Ware will be at full strength this week and that Carter will show up in the middle. If not, I anticipate a Giant butt kicking.

Does Garrett get fired and replaced by another, more successful offensive genius? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don't blame Garrett or any of the coaches for a defensive scheme that was undermanned along the key DL even before injuries, but this offense that Garrett should be hanging his hat on has been sputtering throughout his tenure. If you decide to keep him, the real question is "Why? What exactly has he shown that makes him a better choice than someone else?" I really don't know what I feel about that.

 

[Common Sense]

If this team is serious about implementing a Tampa-esque 4-3, it should try to figure out a way to bring on Dungy as a consultant.

 

[JackWagon]

Why not hire Dungy as the head coach?

 

[Derinyar]

Why not hire Dungy as the head coach?

My best guess is that he doesn't want to coach again. Some of the retired coaches that go onto become talking heads want to come back, some don't. Parcells couldn't stay away. Johnson has. Gruden seems to be out there alot. Dungy we haven't heard anything about. I'm guessing Dungy is done, at least until we see some serious rumors about him.

If you're wanting former coaches I'm guessing the two primary ones are the chin and Gruden.

 

[hra8700]

The front office ignored the d-line for the future (lots of old players with expiring contracts), but the problems with the d-line THIS year had nothing to do with Jerry or Kiffin. It was just bad luck. Here is our expected D-line going into the season in order of ability in this scheme:

1. Demarcus Ware (missed 3 games, half the game he was injured in, and was extremely gimpy the game he came back for)
2. Spencer (played half a game, season ending IR)
3. Ratliff (zero snaps played due to injury/unknown conflict)
4. Hatcher (missed 1 game)
5. Crawford (zero snaps, season ending IR)
6. Brent (zero snaps, retired)
7. Bass (zero snaps, season ending IR)
8. Wilber (healthy)
9. Lissemore (traded, not a scheme fit)

When 5 of your best 7 linemen don't play a single full game among them, and your best overall lineman misses a significant chunk of time, it's very hard to have a good defense.

And the Saints game? Ware was a shell of himself, and we were missing basically everyone else. Our D-line was replacement level quality. We were playing street free agents against one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the NFL. What exactly do people expect to happen? Not to mention we lost Sean Lee, Durant, Claiborne, etc. Given how poorly Carter has adjusted to this scheme, you could say that our entire defensive line, linebacker corps, and safeties were not much better than replacement level quality.

The issue is with injuries, which are predominantly random occurrences...

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

The front office ignored the d-line for the future (lots of old players with expiring contracts), but the problems with the d-line THIS year had nothing to do with Jerry or Kiffin. It was just bad luck. Here is our expected D-line going into the season in order of ability in this scheme:

1. Demarcus Ware (missed 3 games, half the game he was injured in, and was extremely gimpy the game he came back for)
2. Spencer (played half a game, season ending IR)
3. Ratliff (zero snaps played due to injury/unknown conflict)
4. Hatcher (missed 1 game)
5. Crawford (zero snaps, season ending IR)
6. Brent (zero snaps, retired)
7. Bass (zero snaps, season ending IR)
8. Wilber (healthy)
9. Lissemore (traded, not a scheme fit)

When 5 of your best 7 linemen don't play a single full game among them, and your best overall lineman misses a significant chunk of time, it's very hard to have a good defense.

And the Saints game? Ware was a shell of himself, and we were missing basically everyone else. Our D-line was replacement level quality. We were playing street free agents against one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the NFL. What exactly do people expect to happen? Not to mention we lost Sean Lee, Durant, Claiborne, etc. Given how poorly Carter has adjusted to this scheme, you could say that our entire defensive line, linebacker corps, and safeties were not much better than replacement level quality.

The issue is with injuries, which are predominantly random occurrences...

Preach....Preach. This is WHY over the bye the organization better decide that we will live and die with the offense ATTEMPTING to score 40 every game. The cure for this defense is for this offense.....which is much healthier.....and has been together both scheme and players.....for 5+ years.....the cure is to score points and make the opposition play "catch up". No excxuse for this offense to score 16 points in KC...no excuse for this offense to FAIL to run out the clock against Detroit. We are young, beat up and new to this defensive scheme/defensive coaches....this offense has zero excuses for why they are not playing better.

 

[visionary]

Polian knows nothing
The DL is the 'lynch pin' to nothing
There is nothing wrong with this defense that signing/drafting 2 CBs with first round picks and 50+million dollars wont solve

signed

CZ homers who remain 'perplexed' why the defense is not working while ignoring the obvious

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The front office ignored the d-line for the future (lots of old players with expiring contracts), but the problems with the d-line THIS year had nothing to do with Jerry or Kiffin. It was just bad luck. Here is our expected D-line going into the season in order of ability in this scheme:

1. Demarcus Ware (missed 3 games, half the game he was injured in, and was extremely gimpy the game he came back for)
2. Spencer (played half a game, season ending IR)
3. Ratliff (zero snaps played due to injury/unknown conflict)
4. Hatcher (missed 1 game)
5. Crawford (zero snaps, season ending IR)
6. Brent (zero snaps, retired)
7. Bass (zero snaps, season ending IR)
8. Wilber (healthy)
9. Lissemore (traded, not a scheme fit)

When 5 of your best 7 linemen don't play a single full game among them, and your best overall lineman misses a significant chunk of time, it's very hard to have a good defense.

And the Saints game? Ware was a shell of himself, and we were missing basically everyone else. Our D-line was replacement level quality. We were playing street free agents against one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the NFL. What exactly do people expect to happen? Not to mention we lost Sean Lee, Durant, Claiborne, etc. Given how poorly Carter has adjusted to this scheme, you could say that our entire defensive line, linebacker corps, and safeties were not much better than replacement level quality.

The issue is with injuries, which are predominantly random occurrences...

I agree with this.

Even if the Cowboys used their second round pick on a DL, instead of a TE, the results wouldn't be much different.

Injuries and the perplexing Ratliff situation ruined the defensive line before the season even started... And it's only gotten worse since then.

 

[Risen Star]

The DL is the lynch pin of any defense. Anybody who doesn't understand that doesn't understand football.

Switching to the 4-3 was a mistake. The scheme was not the problem. The talent and the environment that talent is coached in is the problem.

 

[blackbull]

Preach....Preach. This is WHY over the bye the organization better decide that we will live and die with the offense ATTEMPTING to score 40 every game. The cure for this defense is for this offense.....which is much healthier.....and has been together both scheme and players.....for 5+ years.....the cure is to score points and make the opposition play "catch up". No excxuse for this offense to score 16 points in KC...no excuse for this offense to FAIL to run out the clock against Detroit. We are young, beat up and new to this defensive scheme/defensive coaches....this offense has zero excuses for why they are not playing better.

That's why I laugh at people blaming the defense when our 100 million qb led offense is as bad as a Christian ponder led offense.

 

[Rockport]

Polian holds no hope of our defense suddenly improving. I have to agree; the adage goes, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ____."

According to Polian, he learned this defense from Dungy who created it with Monte Kiffin. Polian says the DL is the lynch pin; you need playmakers at every position, DE and DT, and "Dallas has none due to injury. Without the DL making plays, everything else in this defense falls apart."

DUH....poor drafting, ignoring the position hurt our 3-4 and continues to kill our 4-3 in the face of injuries.
I'm hopeful that Hatcher and Ware will be at full strength this week and that Carter will show up in the middle. If not, I anticipate a Giant butt kicking.

Does Garrett get fired and replaced by another, more successful offensive genius? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don't blame Garrett or any of the coaches for a defensive scheme that was undermanned along the key DL even before injuries, but this offense that Garrett should be hanging his hat on has been sputtering throughout his tenure. If you decide to keep him, the real question is "Why? What exactly has he shown that makes him a better choice than someone else?" I really don't know what I feel about that.

This defense was a bottom 10 defense on day 1. And Polian is right on as to the reasons why.

 

[Idgit]

Well, hopefully getting Jason Hatcher and Demarcus Ware back healthy fills some of this pressure void we're talking about. It's not exactly news to anybody here, I don't think, that this defense is reliant on its front.

Losing Spencer, Hatcher, Ratliff Ware, Crawford, and Bass for all or part of the year was going to hurt our defensive line depth. We all knew that, right? Throw in Sean Lee, our SAM, our starting S, and out third press CB, and pretty soon you get enough injuries on the record that it occurs to people that we've got significant defensive injuries.

 

[Seven]

If this team is serious about implementing a Tampa-esque 4-3, it should try to figure out a way to bring on Dungy as a consultant.

No. It should stop drafting for a scheme, firing that coach, and bring in another coach and his scheme. Over and over.

Our best chance for a good defense utilizing the athletes we have was with Rob, IMO. He seemed to put guys in position to succeed.

 

[Common Sense]

The front office ignored the d-line for the future (lots of old players with expiring contracts), but the problems with the d-line THIS year had nothing to do with Jerry or Kiffin. It was just bad luck. Here is our expected D-line going into the season in order of ability in this scheme:

1. Demarcus Ware (missed 3 games, half the game he was injured in, and was extremely gimpy the game he came back for)
2. Spencer (played half a game, season ending IR)
3. Ratliff (zero snaps played due to injury/unknown conflict)
4. Hatcher (missed 1 game)
5. Crawford (zero snaps, season ending IR)
6. Brent (zero snaps, retired)
7. Bass (zero snaps, season ending IR)
8. Wilber (healthy)
9. Lissemore (traded, not a scheme fit)

When 5 of your best 7 linemen don't play a single full game among them, and your best overall lineman misses a significant chunk of time, it's very hard to have a good defense.

And the Saints game? Ware was a shell of himself, and we were missing basically everyone else. Our D-line was replacement level quality. We were playing street free agents against one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the NFL. What exactly do people expect to happen? Not to mention we lost Sean Lee, Durant, Claiborne, etc. Given how poorly Carter has adjusted to this scheme, you could say that our entire defensive line, linebacker corps, and safeties were not much better than replacement level quality.

The issue is with injuries, which are predominantly random occurrences...

I'm not discounting bad luck. Everyone sees that. But is that really the case for all nine of these players? Josh Brent was done before this season even began, so you can take him off the list. Ben Bass is a scrub UDFA who isn't much different than any of the guys being brought in off the streets, so scratch him as well. Wilbur and Lissemore aren't scheme fits (Wilbur probably can't play in ANY scheme, but that's another argument). Okay, then why are you changing schemes without replacing them? Scratch them from the list.

That leaves you with five players, only one of whom can't be considered an aging player (Crawford, whose loss was certainly bad luck), and only three of whom who were under contract for 2014 (If you know that the scheme change is a multi-year process, why are you putting off the most critical component an extra year?). This team was never, ever set on the D-line. Injuries are part of it, yes, but they aren't the ONLY part. Another is managerial incompetence.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't agree with the sentiment that we 'ignored the D-Line.' At the beginning of the year we had the following roster:

LDE: Anthony Spencer, Tyrone Crawford
DT: Jason Hatcher, Sean Lissemore
DT: Jay Ratliff, Ben Bass
RDE: DeMarcus Ware, Kyle Wiber

We spent a 1st round pick on Spencer and Ware. We signed Ware to a big deal. Franchised Spencer. Crawford, Hatcher and Wilber are 3rd round picks. Ratliff was signed to a big contract. Bass was looking so good that Hatcher claimed that he 'will be the reason why I'm not here next year.'

With Hayden brought in, we dealt Lissemore because they didn't feel he was a good fit and we had plenty of depth.

The only player of the group that has stayed healthy the entire year is Wilber.

1 out of 8.

We more or less didn't get anything from Spencer, Crawford, Ratliff and Bass all due to injury.

I can't even really complain about Spencer or Ware's contracts. Spencer is a 1-year deal. He was signed to franchise tender just in case this happened. Ware has never missed a game until this year. And the injury that took him out was an injury he never suffered before.

The Ratliff contract was the real bad one.

But other than that, I don't see a lot of foolish moves here nor do I see a 'neglecting the D-Line.' I think we neglected the D-Line more in the 3-4 since we didn't have DE's to play the scheme. But now that the 3-4 OLB's get converted to the D-Line and the 3-4 DE's were either released or traded, I don't see this big 'neglecting the D-Line.'

When it comes to the defensive woes, I just don't like us spending so much on the cover corners that can't tackle. I don't think we 'ignore' as much as we 'hope to get by' in certain positions like guard, center, safety, etc.





YR

 

[Common Sense]

I don't agree with the sentiment that we 'ignored the D-Line.' At the beginning of the year we had the following roster:

LDE: Anthony Spencer, Tyrone Crawford
DT: Jason Hatcher, Sean Lissemore
DT: Jay Ratliff, Ben Bass
RDE: DeMarcus Ware, Kyle Wiber

We spent a 1st round pick on Spencer and Ware. We signed Ware to a big deal. Franchised Spencer. Crawford, Hatcher and Wilber are 3rd round picks. Ratliff was signed to a big contract. Bass was looking so good that Hatcher claimed that he 'will be the reason why I'm not here next year.'

With Hayden brought in, we dealt Lissemore because they didn't feel he was a good fit and we had plenty of depth.

The only player of the group that has stayed healthy the entire year is Wilber.

1 out of 8.

We more or less didn't get anything from Spencer, Crawford, Ratliff and Bass all due to injury.

I can't even really complain about Spencer or Ware's contracts. Spencer is a 1-year deal. He was signed to franchise tender just in case this happened. Ware has never missed a game until this year. And the injury that took him out was an injury he never suffered before.

The Ratliff contract was the real bad one.

But other than that, I don't see a lot of foolish moves here nor do I see a 'neglecting the D-Line.' I think we neglected the D-Line more in the 3-4 since we didn't have DE's to play the scheme. But now that the 3-4 OLB's get converted to the D-Line and the 3-4 DE's were either released or traded, I don't see this big 'neglecting the D-Line.'

When it comes to the defensive woes, I just don't like us spending so much on the cover corners that can't tackle. I don't think we 'ignore' as much as we 'hope to get by' in certain positions like guard, center, safety, etc.





YR

This is that whole "I couldn't even find a seat in the room" argument. Quantity is not quality. What purpose do Ben Bass, Kyle Wilbur, and Sean Lissemore serve on a 4-3 team that intends on being competitive? Best case scenario, you have four quality, yet aging starters and one guy who may or may not be able to play in a 4-3 behind them. And half of those starters (now three, counting Ratliff) aren't even under contract next year.

We can plan 10 years into the future for TE, but can't see that this isn't good foresight for DL? No way, man.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Ben Bass is a scrub UDFA who isn't much different than any of the guys being brought in off the streets, so scratch him as well.

Nonsense.

Jason Hatcher was stating how Bass was going to be the guy that was going to drive him out of Dallas next year because he was playing so well. He was obviously a player that they had big plans for. Then you lose Spencer who was a Pro Bowl level player along with Ware, a future HoF'er.

I would happily take a healthy D-Line of Spencer, Hatcher, Ratliff, Ware, Hayden, Crawford, Bass and Selvie against the rest of the league.



YR

 

[windward]

If

This defense was a bottom 10 defense on day 1. And Polian is right on as to the reasons why.

Hatcher and Ware are healthy the defense will be ok enough to give us a punchers chance.

 

[Common Sense]

Nonsense.

Jason Hatcher was stating how Bass was going to be the guy that was going to drive him out of Dallas next year because he was playing so well. He was obviously a player that they had big plans for. Then you lose Spencer who was a Pro Bowl level player along with Ware, a future HoF'er.

I would happily take a healthy D-Line of Spencer, Hatcher, Ratliff, Ware, Hayden, Crawford, Bass and Selvie against the rest of the league.



YR

Hatcher says a lot of things. That means nothing. If Ben Bass played for the Commanders and their fans were blaming his loss for their defensive woes, we would never let it go.

 

[AbeBeta]

Polian holds no hope of our defense suddenly improving. I have to agree; the adage goes, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken ____."

According to Polian, he learned this defense from Dungy who created it with Monte Kiffin. Polian says the DL is the lynch pin; you need playmakers at every position, DE and DT, and "Dallas has none due to injury. Without the DL making plays, everything else in this defense falls apart."

DUH....poor drafting, ignoring the position hurt our 3-4 and continues to kill our 4-3 in the face of injuries.
I'm hopeful that Hatcher and Ware will be at full strength this week and that Carter will show up in the middle. If not, I anticipate a Giant butt kicking.

Does Garrett get fired and replaced by another, more successful offensive genius? Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don't blame Garrett or any of the coaches for a defensive scheme that was undermanned along the key DL even before injuries, but this offense that Garrett should be hanging his hat on has been sputtering throughout his tenure. If you decide to keep him, the real question is "Why? What exactly has he shown that makes him a better choice than someone else?" I really don't know what I feel about that.

Ridiculous to call it poor drafting. Ware, Spencer, Rat, and Hatcher are all draft picks here. Crawford as well. Ware is a 7 time probowl player, Spencer made a probowl and was our best defender last year. Ratliff .. 4 times in the probowl. Hatcher never made one but if he continues to play at his current level he'll be there this year. Crawford was very promising. We've lost ALL of those guys to injury at some point this year. Rat, Spencer, and Crawford missing basically the entire season. Ware missed several games and Hatcher one.

You cannot say "bad drafting" when we had the players to make this work and through a remarkable and improbably stretch, we lost them all.