All-22 - Continued Oline concern and other observations

TheDude

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I really wish I had an efficient way to make some animated gifs like @itsaboat and others. The All-22 is a great feature and worth it if you have no real life - it is cheap "entertainment." When you compare teams and or games like NO this year vs last year, you really can see some root cause issues and sometimes get confirmation when someone like @Sturm1310 pulls stuff out .

That said, here are some thoughts and happy to point to other interesting plays (or post if someone can give me heads up on a tool that I dont have to spend 20 minutes loading one clip (I apparently have some life)

Offense
Oline
The line is not playing anywhere NEAR expectations. The biggest issues across the board is that they look weak and leverage seems consistently bad. There are many times (like the Michael play) where 1 or 2 players are driven back 2 yards before the handoff occurs. In this game, Leary looked exceptionally weak and slow for him, maybe he is still nursing injuries. Free seems to give you one good play and then 3 bad ones.

Teams are also learning tendencies of the Cowboys stretch and zone plays. The cut blocks are very anticipated and the result is you have tackles hitting the ground and the defender left upright hurdling over. Communication and calls seem to be 50/50 propositions as well (but that is pretty subjective statement)

Overall, this line looks average, it doesn't look like last year, and this has been in all 4 games not just since Romo is out. Pass Blocking has been decent - but that isnt playing to our gameplan. Grade - D+

QB
Weeden actually played ok enough to win. I still do not think he gives you more than someone like Showers (who is mobile). After watching Weeden and going back to some Cleveland games, he just doesnt seem to incorporate any pump fakes, look offs, etc. He locks on read #1 or #2, by then he seems to get nervous and lose composure. If the route is open he will stand in and take a hit, if not his bail is always backwards, there is no step up. A couple of sacks were plays Romo hits TDs on. I cant really fault Weeden for that, but whith his other issues - partial progressions, lack of touch, not incredibly accurate - I think having some mobility is really more valuable than a vet who has proven not to cut it. There were still many throws left on the field (video and the 3rd down incomplete to WItten where Williams had great seperation from Breaux on the same side

Grade - C

TEs
I really do not like the 2TE set on the line. It is crowding the area and giving more people room to shoot gaps and. Hanna missed a couple of blocks that could have sprung for big gains, but overall TEs are open and doing a passable job

Grade - B

RBs
After watching this year and last years game,. I have a new respect for "dirty yards". There are many runs that were stuffed for 1, 0, -1 where the RB immediately bailed for the cutback. Teams have studied this and the cutbacks arent there as ther were last year. However, watching a few of Demarcos runs last, he would run into the crease between a Smith and Free and sping through a crevice that really didnt look like it was there. The Dline got a hand on him, but his momentum was too much to impede him. Randle and McFadden dont see that crease developing or dont trust it. Every run seems to have a cutback way too early. Aside form that, many runs have no chance due to a blown assignment from the line.

Grade - C

WRs
This was impossible to judge last week as no balls go to the edge. WRs were open. They were open again this week and the ball was moved pretty effectively. Williams has had a couple of drops and Street is worthless, but Butler, Beasley and Williams have been good enough to win.

Grade - B

This is getting long in the tooth, so maybe i'll save the defense for another thread. Suffice it to say, with your #1WR gone, Pro-Bowl QB gone, the TEAM has to play efficient and execute. The coaches also have to adjust and understand what the strengths are and have situational awareness and instill all remote scenarios as teaching tools (like Parcells). The defense also has to capitalize on turnovers and tackle. 1-3 plays can typically make the difference in NFL games and these plays can be obvious or hidden. You cant win with a multiple false starts, too many men penalties, stepping out of bounds, calling timeout on first and goal at the with :40 seconds in the half resulting in 3 points for the other team. Getting stupid defense holding calls that dont impede a receiver, but just negates a Turnover (Carr). Dropping gift INTs (Claiborne, Patmon). Continuing to run the same plays and show tendencies. THere is a great play the Saints had on a sweep where the slot receiver came down and pushed lawrence from setting the edge - yet to see a similar variation from Dallas.

Chip Kelly said that they are 2 missed kicks away form being 3-1. THey are also a Brandon Marshall lateral to his shadow from being 0-4. Dallas could also be anywhere from 1-3 to 4-0. But there are way too many opportunities left out there and way too many dumb mistakes. The most concerning though is the oline getting manhandled 70% of the time


Here are two plays indicative of how drives end in FGs versus 7 points. The TE seam route is always open (Hanna this time). The next play is Randle for -4. Leary and Tyron Whiff. Free misses his block and ends up riding him into randles cut back - way to frequent look

 
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perrykemp

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Good writeup. Thanks for putting in the effort of pulling this together.
 

Sydla

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As much as I kill Weeden, he throws the ball better than Showers.
 

xwalker

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I really wish I had an efficient way to make some animated gifs like @itsaboat and others. The All-22 is a great feature and worth it if you have no real life cheap "entertainment." When you compare teams and or games like NO this year vs last year, you really can see some root cause issues and sometimes get confirmation when someone like @Sturm1310 pulls out .

That said, here are some thoughts and happy to point to other interesting plays (or post if someone can give me heads up on a tool that I dont have to spend 20 minutes loading one clip (I apparently have some life)

Offense
Oline
The line is not playing anywhere NEAR expectations. The biggest issues across the board is that they look weak and leverage seems consistently bad. There are many times (like the Michael play) where 1 or 2 players are driven back 2 yards before the handoff occurs. In this game, Leary looked exceptionally weak and slow for him, maybe he is still nursing injuries. Free seems to give you one good play and then 3 bad ones.

Teams are also learning tendencies of the Cowboys stretch and zone plays. The cut blocks are very anticipated and the result is you have tackles hitting the ground and the defender left upright hurdling over. Communication and calls seem to be 50/50 propositions as well (but that is pretty subjective statement)

Overall, this line looks average, it doesn't look like last year, and this has been in all 4 games not just since Romo is out. Pass Blocking has been decent - but that isnt playing to our gameplan. Grade - D+

QB
Weeden actually played ok enough to win. I still do not think he gives you more than someone like Showers (who is mobile). After watching Weeden and going back to some Cleveland games, he just doesnt seem to incorporate any pump fakes, look offs, etc. He locks on read #1 or #2, by then he seems to get nervous and lose composure. If the route is open he will stand in and take a hit, if not his bail is always backwards, there is no step up. A couple of sacks were plays Romo hits TDs on. I cant really fault Weeden for that, but whith his other issues - partial progressions, lack of touch, not incredibly accurate - I think having some mobility is really more valuable than a vet who has proven not to cut it. There were still many throws left on the field (video and the 3rd down incomplete to WItten where Williams had great seperation from Breaux on the same side

Grade - C

TEs
I really do not like the 2TE set on the line. It is crowding the area and giving more people room to shoot gaps and. Hanna missed a couple of blocks that could have sprung for big gains, but overall TEs are open and doing a passable job

Grade - B

RBs
After watching this year and last years game,. I have a new respect for "dirty yards". There are many runs that were stuffed for 1, 0, -1 where the RB immediately bailed for the cutback. Teams have studied this and the cutbacks arent there as ther were last year. However, watching a few of Demarcos runs last, he would run into the crease between a Smith and Free and sping through a crevice that really didnt look like it was there. The Dline got a hand on him, but his momentum was too much to impede him. Randle and McFadden dont see that crease developing or dont trust it. Every run seems to have a cutback way too early. Aside form that, many runs have no chance due to a blown assignment from the line.

Grade - C

WRs
This was impossible to judge last week as no balls go to the edge. WRs were open. They were open again this week and the ball was moved pretty effectively. Williams has had a couple of drops and Street is worthless, but Butler, Beasley and Williams have been good enough to win.

Grade - B

This is getting long in the tooth, so maybe i'll save the defense for another thread. Suffice it to say, with your #1WR gone, Pro-Bowl QB gone, the TEAM has to play efficient and execute. The coaches also have to adjust and understand what the strengths are and have situational awareness and instill all remote scenarios as teaching tools (like Parcells). The defense also has to capitalize on turnovers and tackle. 1-3 plays can typically make the difference in NFL games and these plays can be obvious or hidden. You cant win with a multiple false starts, too many men penalties, stepping out of bounds, calling timeout on first and goal at the with :40 seconds in the half resulting in 3 points for the other team. Getting stupid defense holding calls that dont impede a receiver, but just negates a Turnover (Carr). Dropping gift INTs (Claiborne, Patmon). Continuing to run the same plays and show tendencies. THere is a great play the Saints had on a sweep where the slot receiver came down and pushed lawrence from setting the edge - yet to see a similar variation from Dallas.

Chip Kelly said that they are 2 missed kicks away form being 3-1. THey are also a Brandon Marshall lateral to his shadow from being 0-4. Dallas could also be anywhere from 1-3 to 4-0. But there are way too many opportunities left out there and way too many dumb mistakes. The most concerning though is the oline getting manhandled 70% of the time


Here are two plays indicative of how drives end in FGs versus 7 points. The TE seam route is always open (Hanna this time). The next play is Randle for -4. Leary and Tyron Whiff. Free misses his block and ends up riding him into randles cut back - way to frequent look



Excellent review.
Blocking is my biggest concern going forward. The defense should improve with players returning but I don't see a solution in sight for the blocking issues. Martin does not look right. Free is really struggling. Leary/Collins have not been what Leary was last season. The Guards don't seem to give Fred with initial help blocks like last season.

I don't really think Murray would make much difference. I thought the RBs got some dirty yards in the first 2 games and Randle's had some big plays even when the blocking broke down.

It does seem that defenses know what play is coming often. I wonder if they are doing something specific that is tipping off defenses. Some Centers have been known to hold the ball differently on runs vs passes. Maybe Weeden is doing something to tip them off. It would be interesting to pick up a player that has been on one of the opposing defenses to see if he knows something.
 

TheDude

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Dude, if Showers started at QB we would have been lucky to score 3 points and it would have been an abomination on offense.






YR

IN the Atlanta game any college QB could have completed those passes to Dunbar, RB, TE. I cant say Weeden looked any better in the preseason the Showers.

IM not gonna fall on the cross specifically for SHowers, just a general statement of going with some youth, potential and mobility for a backup versus a player that has pretty much shown he isnt a winner. Its a long term vs short term view but I get that you need to appear to look like you are trying to win now. The team needs a spark and Brandon Weeden is a damp wick.
 

SultanOfSix

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The offensive line has been overrated for a while. Outside of Frederick, they are playing bad.
 

Yakuza Rich

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IN the Atlanta game any college QB could have completed those passes to Dunbar, RB, TE. I cant say Weeden looked any better in the preseason the Showers.

IM not gonna fall on the cross specifically for SHowers, just a general statement of going with some youth, potential and mobility for a backup versus a player that has pretty much shown he isnt a winner. Its a long term vs short term view but I get that you need to appear to look like you are trying to win now. The team needs a spark and Brandon Weeden is a damp wick.

He had 9.5 yards per attempt.

He was throwing the ball where he should be throwing the ball if you're gaining 9.5 yards per *attempt.*

If it's so easy, then why doesn't every QB just throw that way and gain that much YPA and complete 85% of their passes? It's far more efficient and leads to more scores than to complete 60% of your passes for 7 yards per attempt.

And what's the excuse in the Saints game? He made several deep throws that got caught. And he still averaged 9.5 YPA.

Showers doesn't have the accuracy or ability to do that. If he did, he would be on somebody's 53-man roster right now.





YR
 

TheDude

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Excellent review.
Blocking is my biggest concern going forward. The defense should improve with players returning but I don't see a solution in sight for the blocking issues. Martin does not look right. Free is really struggling. Leary/Collins have not been what Leary was last season. The Guards don't seem to give Fred with initial help blocks like last season.

I don't really think Murray would make much difference. I thought the RBs got some dirty yards in the first 2 games and Randle's had some big plays even when the blocking broke down.

It does seem that defenses know what play is coming often. I wonder if they are doing something specific that is tipping off defenses. Some Centers have been known to hold the ball differently on runs vs passes. Maybe Weeden is doing something to tip them off. It would be interesting to pick up a player that has been on one of the opposing defenses to see if he knows something.

You may be right on Murray, I just noticed a few running plays where Smith and Leary had their men turned but were back to back, Randle cut it back 3 yards away. a splint second later, there was a crease. This last game seemed too eager for a cutback, and someone was always there.

As for tipping plays, interesting and havent looked for tells. THere was one run where all 3 linebackers converged on the hole between Free and Martin. Leary pulled and got one, CLutts got the other, but the 3rd was right there. It was a thing of beauty for a saints fan. I havent seen many LBs that orchestrated and committed and it pay off.
 

YosemiteSam

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The offensive line has been overrated for a while. Outside of Frederick, they are playing bad.

Actually, I think Smith has been the most consistent. Frederick has had his own issues. (of course, Smith has had a few of his own too)
 
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TheDude

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He had 9.5 yards per attempt.

He was throwing the ball where he should be throwing the ball if you're gaining 9.5 yards per *attempt.*

If it's so easy, then why doesn't every QB just throw that way and gain that much YPA and complete 85% of their passes? It's far more efficient and leads to more scores than to complete 60% of your passes for 7 yards per attempt.

And what's the excuse in the Saints game? He made several deep throws that got caught. And he still averaged 9.5 YPA.

Showers doesn't have the accuracy or ability to do that. If he did, he would be on somebody's 53-man roster right now.





YR
The issue is that we are still 0-2. Weeden did as much to lose the Atlanta game as he did to win it with those HOF stats. The INT was a killer and the epitome of inaccuracy - almost as dumb as his 25 yard shuffle pass in Cleveland a couple years back. He isnt escaping pressure and missing plays.

He had a fine NO game and was not the top 10 reasons we lost. IM speaking more about the philosophy, most backups are going to lose. If Weeden goes 0-7 or 1-6, what was really gained? At least if you had a young talented guy under contract, you can potentially groom or grow with. Weeden, Cassel, Orton, etc.just keeps the revolving door going with winless outcomes. There doesnt seem to be any return on the $2-$4M cap space over a $500K cap space guy.
 

xwalker

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You may be right on Murray, I just noticed a few running plays where Smith and Leary had their men turned but were back to back, Randle cut it back 3 yards away. a splint second later, there was a crease. This last game seemed too eager for a cutback, and someone was always there.

As for tipping plays, interesting and havent looked for tells. THere was one run where all 3 linebackers converged on the hole between Free and Martin. Leary pulled and got one, CLutts got the other, but the 3rd was right there. It was a thing of beauty for a saints fan. I havent seen many LBs that orchestrated and committed and it pay off.

Even when Romo was playing, I remember a play where the deep Safety dropped down in the box and moved from right to left and just happened to be in exactly the spot where they ran the ball.

I also hate multiple TE formations. If they use 2 TEs I want one of them split out from the line.
 

burmafrd

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He had 9.5 yards per attempt.

He was throwing the ball where he should be throwing the ball if you're gaining 9.5 yards per *attempt.*

If it's so easy, then why doesn't every QB just throw that way and gain that much YPA and complete 85% of their passes? It's far more efficient and leads to more scores than to complete 60% of your passes for 7 yards per attempt.

And what's the excuse in the Saints game? He made several deep throws that got caught. And he still averaged 9.5 YPA.

Showers doesn't have the accuracy or ability to do that. If he did, he would be on somebody's 53-man roster right now.





YR
once again stats lie. Don't know why you seem enamored with this JAG but we need more and he ain't got it.
 

Yakuza Rich

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The issue is that we are still 0-2. Weeden did as much to lose the Atlanta game as he did to win it with those HOF stats. The INT was a killer and the epitome of inaccuracy - almost as dumb as his 25 yard shuffle pass in Cleveland a couple years back. He isnt escaping pressure and missing plays.

Or maybe as dumb as Romo fumbling against the Eagles when we had a lead. That should be considered a 'killer' as well. The difference is we won that game so it is magically forgotten (and Weeden closed out the game).

And how many plays are we 'missing.' Williams is our only deep threat and he isn't exactly the greatest #1 WR threat in the world.

At least if you had a young talented guy under contract, you can potentially groom or grow with. Weeden, Cassel, Orton, etc.just keeps the revolving door going with winless outcomes. There doesnt seem to be any return on the $2-$4M cap space over a $500K cap space guy.

What is talented about Showers?

He has running ability and a strong arm, but there's so much more to QB'ing than those two things.

It's like Parcells said when asked about 'what do you have to lose by starting a young QB' and Parcells replied 'you can lose the young QB.'

That's why I would rather see us draft Romo's replacement and allow that player to sit on the bench. Wait until they are ready instead of throwing them to the wolves, destroying their confidence and exposing every weakness and then expect them to fight through it.

And Weeden gives us a better chance to win than Showers right now.





YR
 

Yakuza Rich

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once again stats lie. Don't know why you seem enamored with this JAG but we need more and he ain't got it.

They only 'lie' because they don't agree with your preconceived notion.

You have done NOTHING to refute my point other than to say 'well, stats lie.'

It just goes to show your lack of knowledge when it comes to statistics.

And I'm not enamored with Weeden. I'm just saying that he has played fine for a backup QB. But because you have predetermined to hate him, you can't see the folly of your thinking. And that's why I'm done discussing this with you. Your mind is made up.





YR
 

StevenOtero

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Jameill Showers Lol K.

You just crapped on the rest of your post by saying he gives the Cowboys more than Weeden. Yep, he's looking awfully good as the scout team safety. :rolleyes:
 

CATCH17

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28 Seconds in..

Murray would've scored cause last year teams stacked the box and he still did good.
 
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