America and High Speed Rail

[Ranched]

America and Amtrak keep pushing high speed rail as a problem to deal with later, but i think they're both wrong and other countries are just passing them by.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

ICE is a wonderful system.

 

[Sarek]

For that reason, I don't think going high speed rail for the entire country would be practical, but certain routes would be. You've mentioned one in Dallas to Houston and back. Others would be Los Angeles and San Francisco -- New York and DC -- New York and Boston. Possibly also some like Chicago and Rockford, and Chicago and Springfield. I'd like to see Omaha and Kansas City as well as Omaha and Des Moines, but that might be pushing it. Maybe Los Angeles and Las Vegas could work as well.

These close city connections will be phase one. There's a video about it above/page 1 maybe. Phase two will expand and so on to phase 4. The goal is simple, pack a backpack, get on the high speed train, go somewhere for 1 or 2 nights see the sights, get on the next train, rinse and repeat till the person see's all of America maybe even Canada as well. Now that's a adventure without all the effort that goes in driving that whole experence. I'm not 25 anymore and i can't do all the driving now. I'm willing to bet that future generations would love exploring America/Canada this way.

You know what, we might aswell go ahead and add Mexico to this list, get rid of the bad elements there and this is all possible. Think big and reduce later if absolutley necessary.

March on!

 

[Sarek]

If all goes according to plan i will be on the Eurostar from London to Paris at the end of the year. I was looking into London to Berlin and saw the ICE train connection, i don't have the time this go around, hopefully i will get a chance in the future. When i looked it up, it says 2 trains and a total of 10 hours 40 minutes to do London to Berlin. Most likley i will do Berlin later without involving London, Probably Austria/Germany/Holland and back home.

 

[Turk]

A large segment of the younger generation who live in larger cities are not buying cars like previous generations have and ultimately, that is going to drive up demand for public (even if privately funded/owned) mass transportation services.

Despite the need for corporations to make money and the desire to do it the way they have always done it (aka: proven methods), consumers ultimately dictate what happens. It just takes longer to force changes that way.

As housing/rental costs increase due to demand increasing at a rate much faster than the introduction of new supply, younger people are spending more of their money on housing causing auto purchases to be less of a priority to them.

Services like Uber, Lyft, etc. are helping the younger generation live without vehicles in the short term and that will ultimately push transportation oriented companies to find new ways of generating revenue.

Those companies are already shifting their focus toward electric vehicles but those are only going to exacerbate the ever increasing cost of vehicles further reducing younger interest in owning vehicles.

I am sure they will attempt to force their existing systems (square pegs) to work for people in some way (round holes) through things like auto subscriptions, short term rentals/leasing, etc., but in the end they will fail because they cannot make those things cheap or simple enough.

Add to that a post-pandemic world of remote working and work-from-home and that need to own vehicles is going to continue to decline among the younger generation.

As the younger generation hits their 30s and 40s, the government and private industry will be forced to accept the transition of transportation whether they want to or not, much like they did decades ago when interstates and highway infrastructures became the main focus.

High speed rail networks are a proven transportation model in other countries and ultimately, the US will be forced to do the same.

what a fraction of the population does does not matter. Many cities already have mass transit. Now those SHOULD be improved no argument.

But the idea we can have high speed rail coast to coast is and always will be idiotic.

From cost to security to the plain simple fact that americans love their cars.

And you left out the fact that this covid stuff scared people INTO their cars that might otherwise have used mass transit.

While the work from home was definitely boosted there is no real sign there is a major change.

Moire pie in the sky from people who truly do not get the reality of the situation in the US.

 

[Sarek]

Moire pie in the sky from people who truly do not get the reality of the situation in the US.

The future is clay and it will be molded according to the will of those who know this. The fact that you think this won't happen proves to me that it will. If for some reason this doesn't happen it will only be because they have a better idea that moves people around at a even quicker speed at less cost and less congestion. If you think this world/country is stuck or going backwards your on a fools mission. I'd stop and take a good look ahead before deciding which way to go next, or not. Gluck.

Next topic, bring on the Boom Supersonic!

 

[Reality]

what a fraction of the population does does not matter. Many cities already have mass transit. Now those SHOULD be improved no argument.

But the idea we can have high speed rail coast to coast is and always will be idiotic.

From cost to security to the plain simple fact that americans love their cars.

And you left out the fact that this covid stuff scared people INTO their cars that might otherwise have used mass transit.

While the work from home was definitely boosted there is no real sign there is a major change.

Moire pie in the sky from people who truly do not get the reality of the situation in the US.

You are thinking in terms of a national/government/country-wide service, but that is not what I think will happen.

It will start with two cities cooperating, likely in reasonably close but too far to drive daily proximity.

If one company can complete a few of these, then the next logical step will be other companies, or even states, stepping in and connecting those through extensions, which could be federally subsidized.

Think of it like a web rather than building a complete interstate system from scratch.

As always, the first phase will have to solve current problems, not focusing on making the future better.

 

[dsturgeon]

what will suck is if these get built and you have to wear a mask and have a vaccine passport, because i will not get to ride

 

[Sarek]

what will suck is if these get built and you have to wear a mask and have a vaccine passport, because i will not get to ride

I wouldn’t worry about that. It’s gonna take years to build and there will be a few delays for sure.

 

[Ranched]

If all goes according to plan i will be on the Eurostar from London to Paris at the end of the year. I was looking into London to Berlin and saw the ICE train connection, i don't have the time this go around, hopefully i will get a chance in the future. Most likley i will do Berlin later without involving London, Probably Austria/Germany/Holland and back home.

Oh you're going to enjoy all 3 so much. Absolutely breathtaking. Austria's mountains, Germany's castles/churches & Holland's flowers/windmills. Have a wonderful trip my friend.

 

[John813]

Look at California and their failed attempt at a high speed rail/train.

Bloated, corruption, delays and the costs have blown up 4x the original budget.


I think certain areas it makes sense, and others it's just a waste of money due to demographics and population density

 

[CyberB0b]

The future is clay and it will be molded according to the will of those who know this. The fact that you think this won't happen proves to me that it will. If for some reason this doesn't happen it will only be because they have a better idea that moves people around at a even quicker speed at less cost and less congestion. If you think this world/country is stuck or going backwards your on a fools mission. I'd stop and take a good look ahead before deciding which way to go next, or not. Gluck.

Next topic, bring on the Boom Supersonic!

Supersonic isn't happening for a long time, for a number of reasons. There's a reason why the Concorde was scrapped with no replacement.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

Supersonic isn't happening for a long time, for a number of reasons. There's a reason why the Concorde was scrapped with no replacement.

You're correct. The Concorde was an awesome plane, but British Airways and Air France had trouble being profitable with it. For one thing, they couldn't do flights over land or they would drive people nuts with sonic booms. Then if a plane had to be grounded due to mechanical trouble, they couldn't just bump passengers over to another Concorde. Seats were also like small coach seats even though really highly priced. Someone traveling over to Europe could get a way more comfortable first class seat on a 747 even if it took longer.

I'm still bummed the Concorde didn't make it. I would have loved to have flown supersonic for the experience. It was supposed to be super quiet on board. After all, it was faster than sound.

 

[Sarek]

Look at California and their failed attempt at a high speed rail/train.

Bloated, corruption, delays and the costs have blown up 4x the original budget.


I think certain areas it makes sense, and others it's just a waste of money due to demographics and population density

Cost is very big problem, but it looks like there's a few phase one connections in talks now. SF to LA started and stalled, Florida looking at Miami to Orlando, Boston to NY, LA to Vegas, Houston to Dallas, Vancouver to Seattle to Portland. Not sure what Virginia is planning. Might be a few others out there as well. If these few can get done i think it will start a domino effect. NJ/NY are looking to build a new rail tunnel but i'm not sure what kind of rail they're thinking of building.

Supersonic isn't happening for a long time, for a number of reasons. There's a reason why the Concorde was scrapped with no replacement.

I agree that they're problems that need to be worked out.

What does "a long time" mean in terms of years? 5, 10, 20? If it goes that long i would guess they might invent something even better then supersonic boom and just pass this project right on by and go onto the next big thing whatever that might be.

The future is about more speed and comfort, it's unavoidable, what type of systems it all comes in is the only thing that remains to be answered.

 

[CyberB0b]

What does "a long time" mean in terms of years? 5, 10, 20? If it goes that long i would guess they might invent something even better then supersonic boom and just pass this project right on by and go onto the next big thing whatever that might be.

The future is about more speed and comfort, it's unavoidable, what type of systems it all comes in is the only thing that remains to be answered.

Probably like 20 years+. There has been very little innovation in the airline industry. Costs and bureaucratic red tape have stifled innovation. There have been very little improvements generally speaking, outside of things like fuel efficiency. The Airbus 220 is a new airplane, but it uses a lot of the same systems from the CRJ lineage. Something like what Boom is claiming simply won't happen in the next decade, that's why they've been delayed over and over again and have only produced a fighter type prototype.

 

[Turk]

You are thinking in terms of a national/government/country-wide service, but that is not what I think will happen.

It will start with two cities cooperating, likely in reasonably close but too far to drive daily proximity.

If one company can complete a few of these, then the next logical step will be other companies, or even states, stepping in and connecting those through extensions, which could be federally subsidized.

Think of it like a web rather than building a complete interstate system from scratch.

As always, the first phase will have to solve current problems, not focusing on making the future better.

Those beating this poor old horse to death were, if they were alive back then, fully on board with flying cars...

 

[Sarek]

Probably like 20 years+. There has been very little innovation in the airline industry. Costs and bureaucratic red tape have stifled innovation. There have been very little improvements generally speaking, outside of things like fuel efficiency. The Airbus 220 is a new airplane, but it uses a lot of the same systems from the CRJ lineage. Something like what Boom is claiming simply won't happen in the next decade, that's why they've been delayed over and over again and have only produced a fighter type prototype.

The timing question you answered in two different ways. First it was 20 years+, Second was "Something like what Boom is claiming simply won't happen in the next decade"

If they can get it done in 12 or 13 years i'd be good with that, 20 years+ is too long and by then they will probably have something better or at least in the works.

 

[CyberB0b]

The timing question you answered in two different ways. First it was 20 years+, Second was "Something like what Boom is claiming simply won't happen in the next decade"

If they can get it done in 12 or 13 years i'd be good with that, 20 years+ is too long and by then they will probably have something better or at least in the works.

Yeah, I won't pretend to be able to predict the future, but 12 years is nothing for airplane development when it comes to certifying a new type. The last major airline release I can remember was the A380 and it was a disaster. It was announced in 1988 and took the first passenger flight in 2007.

We have had major innovations in software since then, but even current types like the A220 I talked about earlier was launched in 2007 and flew passengers in 2017. This was an existing manufacturer with existing tooling.

I think 20+ years is the most likely time frame, but they will probably never get it off the ground if I am being honest. It definitely won't happen in a decade.

 

[Sarek]

Yeah, I won't pretend to be able to predict the future, but 12 years is nothing for airplane development when it comes to certifying a new type. The last major airline release I can remember was the A380 and it was a disaster. It was announced in 1988 and took the first passenger flight in 2007.

We have had major innovations in software since then, but even current types like the A220 I talked about earlier was launched in 2007 in 2017. This was an existing manufacturer with existing tooling.

I think 20+ years is the most likely time frame, but they will probably never get it off the ground if I am being honest. It definitely won't happen in a decade.

Looks like i'm gonna need those high speed rails even more then i thought. At least with faster planes maybe i'd just fly everywhere, no dice now.

 

[catiii]

Need rail from DFW ..actually..from Mid-America - all the way down I35 to S Texas. I35 is a death trap in a car and flying is too expensive. But we'll do it totally wrong. Instead of making a comfortable trip like other nations, we'll cram 6 across like sardines for maximum profit and no one will want to ride it. Corporate greed always stuffs up good ideas.
But we all know it will never happen.
Not to mention the armed Stasi at every stop that you mentioned.