Anonymous Scouts speak out Part 3

Chocolate Lab

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RBs
Jonny : 4/20/2009 11:12 pm
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Georgia's Knowshon Moreno and Ohio State's Chris "Beanie" Wells of Ohio State, the leading running backs, symbolize the overriding theme of the 2009 National Football League draft.

After sizing up this group of running backs, director of player personnel Trent Baalke of the San Francisco 49ers put it this way: "There's value to be had throughout. There's just no superstar."

Moreno, 5 feet 10 1/2 inches and 213 pounds, is an energetic, attacking type of ball carrier who scored 32 touchdowns in his two years at Georgia.

"He's Walter Payton," said one AFC personnel man who was scouting when "Sweetness" came out of Jackson State as the No. 4 pick in 1975. "He looks like Payton, his attitude is just like Payton's and he's got Payton's balance and leaping ability."

Wells, 6-1 and 237, put up 30 touchdowns in his three seasons for the Buckeyes, breaking long run after long run with his see-you-later speed.

"Just like your Larry Johnson, your Steven Jackson," Chicago general manager Jerry Angelo said. "In that mode. Very gifted. He's got great feet for a big man."

Surely, then, both players must be ticketed for the first five or 10 picks in a draft that's so weak at the top?

It sure doesn't look that way four days before the drafting begins.

The problem, at least according to many personnel people, is that each player has a major flaw hindering his chance to become a game-changing back.

Moreno doesn't have great speed. Wells hasn't been durable amid whispers that he isn't tough.

"I thought this group was going to be better," another longtime scout said. "Then when they ran and didn't perform as well as they should . . . it's a very average group. But one of these guys will be the star."


Quote:
"(Moreno) runs hard, he's patient behind his blockers and he's explosive," another AFC scout said. "But do I think he will be all-pro? No. He doesn't have great speed or great size."

Moreno finished No. 1 in a Journal Sentinel survey of 15 personnel men with a national orientation. Each was asked to rate the top five backs, with a first-place vote worth five points, a second worth four and so on.

In a close vote, Moreno edged Wells, 67-64, although each player had seven first-place votes. The other first went to Connecticut's Donald Brown, who totaled 37 points.

Following, in order, were: Pittsburgh's LeSean McCoy, 32; Iowa's Shonn Greene, 19; North Carolina State's Andre Brown, four; and Alabama's Glen Coffee, two.

The top five vote-getters all are underclassmen, a trend that is becoming stronger. All seven backs taken in the first round in the last two drafts were underclassmen as well.

Running backs know better than anyone else that they only have so many hits in them. Since the NFL first welcomed large numbers of juniors in 1990, 31 of the 63 (49.2%) first-round backs have been underclassmen.

Wells was called "kind of a drama queen" by one personnel man who grew tired of watching him come on and off the field because of nagging injury. He didn't miss any games until last season, when a toe injury in the opener knocked him out of the next three games.

Without Wells, the Buckeyes were annihilated by Southern California, 35-3.

"I think that really dinged him in the minds of many," one AFC personnel man said. "But the people at Ohio State that I talk to seem to think it was pretty legitimate. They liked him."


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RUNNING BACKS
Name School HT. WT. 40-Yd. Dash Rd.
1. KNOWSHON MORENO Georgia 5-10 1/2 213 4.54 1
Joined Herschel Walker as the only Georgia players to gain 1,000 yards in two straight seasons. "He's an attack runner," Buffalo VP Tom Modrak said. "He's (always) the first one up, too. That doesn't mean he always comes through things with his size, but he doesn't back down. He's a downhill runner who can make moves without gathering, without slowing it down. He can cut it back. He'd be a great screen runner." Plays with incredible energy and will even hurdle tacklers. "He dances around. He has fun," one scout said. "He just makes play after play after play. Excellent receiver. He's excellent on the goal line because he can dive like Walter (Payton) did. He blocks. He's the whole thing . . . but he's not explosive. He doesn't make long runs." A third-year sophomore who finished with 498 rushes for 2,734 yards (5.5-yard average) and 30 TDs along with 53 catches for 645 (12.2). "He's not a great big guy and he's not a real speed merchant," another scout said. "He seeks out tacklers as opposed to eluding them. Is he big enough to take the constant pounding?" Scored 13 on the 50-question Wonderlic intelligence test. First name is a combination of his parents' names, Freddie "Knowledge" and Varashon.
2. CHRIS "BEANIE" WELLS Ohio State 6-1 237 4.46 1
Third-year sophomore from Akron, Ohio. "Eddie George could create," St. Louis VP Tony Softli said. "This kid is a little bit stiffer. He needs that lane to get going. Once he gets that head of steam, I mean, watch out. Not only will he run you over, but he's probably got the most powerful stiff-arm I've ever seen. It's almost like a punch. He's a hell of a running back in space. He just runs away from people." Finished with 585 rushes for 3,382 (5.8) and 30 TDs plus 15 receptions. "His physicalness comes from his size, not from his explosiveness," former Cleveland GM Phil Savage said. "He'll get tackled and fall forward, but he doesn't really explode through people." Fumbled 10 times, losing eight. Missed three games in '08 with a toe injury, adding to his reputation as a soft player. "My question is, how durable is he and how much of a competitor is he?" one scout said. "Sometimes 'Beanie' runs out of bounds, but Franco Harris ran out of bounds, too, and he was pretty good. And I've never seen him catch the ball to be a really good player." Wonderlic of 22. Led RBs at the combine with a 10-8 broad jump. "I think he will keep getting hurt," another scout said. "Just his run style. He's upright and straight-line. Can't protect his legs, can't protect his body."
3. DONALD BROWN Connecticut 5-10 210 4.49 1-2
Led the nation in rushing in '08 with 2,083 yards. "He's really a complete back," Baltimore personnel director Eric DeCosta said. "Vision. Toughness. Great hands. Good pass pro. Runs good routes. Great kid. Tremendous intangibles." Fourth-year junior with a 41 1/2-inch vertical jump and a Wonderlic of 24. "Maxes out on every play, just about," said Modrak. "At the end of the day, he always had 100 yards. He does everything pretty well." Finished with 698 rushes for 3,800 (5.4) and 33 TDs along with 48 receptions for 276 (5.8). "He's the hot man now for a lot of people," Seattle scout Charles Fisher said. "More so because of his personality and who he is as a person. He is a tough runner and a very smart runner." Split time until '08. "I'm torn," one scout said. "He just doesn't look like he plays big. I don't see him breaking tackles. I see him being elusive and quick. I see him being a guy who comes in a game and does some good things and goes back out. I don't see him as being your bell cow."
4. LeSEAN McCOY Pittsburgh 5-10 1/2 204 4.51 2
"I have no idea why he's fallen off the map," one scout said. "He's electric. He has change-of-direction and burst. He's shifty, fast, strong. Catches the ball. He's the best of all of them." Third-year sophomore who turned in pathetically low efforts in the vertical jump (29) and broad jump (8-11) at pro day. "It shows you what you see on tape," another scout said. "He's not an explosive guy. He's not a darter. He can't stick his foot in the ground and go the other way." Two-year player with 584 rushes for 2,816 (4.8) and 35 TDs along with 65 receptions for 549. His quickness reminded one scout of Reggie Bush. "He's very unique and really, really good," Chicago GM Jerry Angelo said. "He gets that ball upfield north and south. Fun to watch." Wonderlic of 11 but is fine on assignments. "It wouldn't have surprised me several months ago if he went in the top 15," said Savage. "Then he didn't run as fast as people thought he would. He does have some spectacular runs." Acquired the nickname "Shady" as an infant.
5. SHONN GREENE Iowa 5-10 1/2 227 4.58 2
Fourth-year junior. "He turned around that team single-handedly," Tennessee scouting coordinator Blake Beddingfield said. "He had a big-time year." First Big Ten player since Curtis Enis in 1997 to surpass 100 yards in every conference game. Sixth in Heisman Trophy voting and Big Ten MVP in the Big Ten after carrying 307 times for 1,850 (5.9) and 20 TDs. "He's got excellent vision and short-area burst," Washington scout Shemy Schembechler said. "I think he will pound like Ladell Betts. Maybe a little more burst than Ladell coming out, but in a lot of ways they're similar." Academically ineligible in '07, he moved furniture before being reinstated in '08. "He's one of those guys who hammers the line and pretty soon somebody stays on a block for an instant and he breaks an arm-tackle and he's got eight or 12 yards," one scout said. "I like the durability factor. But he doesn't have great speed." Iowa's first consensus All-American RB since Nile Kinnick in 1939. Just 11 receptions. "That (passing game) will be the thing that holds him back," another scout said. "Got to still sub him. Maybe he'll get a little bit better but he's not a good catcher." Wonderlic of 18. Has small hands (8 1/2). "I felt like I was shaking half a hand," a third scout said. "Short, stumpy looking guy. I was disappointed after seeing him play and then seeing him physically."
6. ANDRE BROWN North Carolina State 6-0 226 4.45 2-3
Should be the first senior RB selected; Matt Forte (44) was the first in 2008, Kenny Irons (49) was the first in '07. "Great measurables," one scout said. "He's a little bit lacking in top-level toughness. They expected big things from him and he did OK for them but he never broke out to be the guy they really wanted him to be. He's got the size and speed." Rushed 523 times for 2,539 (4.9) and 22 TDs along with 70 receptions for 631. Wonderlic of 11 but is said to learn well. "I have questions about his durability," another scout said. "He's been hurt a lot and he doesn't really play through that stuff. I could see a team getting really frustrated with him."
7. GLEN COFFEE Alabama 6-0 1/2 209 4.53 2-3
Fourth-year junior. "If Denver gets him they will lead the league in rushing next year," one scout said. "He has the NFL run style. One cut, get downhill and go. Doesn't waste time. Not elusive or anything. He sees a hole and hits it hard." Rushed 410 times for 2,107 (5.1) and 14 TDs and caught 42 for 351. "He averaged 6 yards a carry last year," said Savage. "He could be a surprise for somebody." Led the top backs on the Wonderlic with 27. "Early on, he was a young kid that had all the answers," another scout said. "But he kind of matured and grew up. He's helped himself. He's got some stiffness in his lower body but he's going to run hard. I don't know if he's got that second burst, and he may be a fumbler (seven, lost four)."
8. JAVON RINGER Michigan State 5-9 204 4.54 3
Played on a bad knee in 2008, had arthroscopic surgery in January and worked out at 80% at the combine. "I like him, but not as a marquee guy," San Diego GM A.J. Smith said. "Just a solid running back who could be part of your mix and probably help you win. Tough guy. Doesn't have the great speed." Rushed 843 times for 4,398 (5.2) and 34 TDs and caught 96 for 719. "He's like (Brian) Calhoun, but better," Tennessee scout Johnny Meads said. "Even though he doesn't have the size, he played more like a banger this year." Tremendous worker and high-character person, but injuries and number of carries might drag him down. "He's the Mike Hart of this year's class," one scout said. "A million carries but small and slow. You can't be small and slow in the NFL."
9. CEDRIC PEERMAN Virginia 5-9 1/2 213 4.38 3-4
Compact, tough inside runner. "He's a traditional Virginia single-back type," Fisher said. "His M.O. is to run hard. He's strong. He's not a big shake guy." Carried 382 times for 1,749 (4.6) and 15 TDs; caught 67 for 344. "More of a straight-line guy," one scout said. "Tough. Hard-nosed." Bounced back from Lisfranc foot surgery in '07. "Not a starter but catches the ball well," another scout said. "Reliable. Smart. Lot of positives."
10. RASHAD JENNINGS Liberty 6-1 231 4.61 4-5
Transferred from Pittsburgh after one season in which he gained 411 yards for the lower level of play at Liberty. "Everybody says, 'Level of competition,' " one scout said. "I say, 'Well, the linemen at Liberty weren't the best, either.' He ran through tackles. Backs come from everywhere. It's like (Matt) Forte. He played at Tulane, and everybody said, 'Well, Tulane.' Hell, (Forte) was one of the best backs in the NFL as a rookie." Carried 719 times for 4,044 (5.6) and 43 TDs; caught 48 for 557. "Kind of a straight-line, upright guy," another scout said. "Big question marks would be toughness and durability."

OTHERS: Marlon Lucky, Nebraska; James Davis, Clemson; Mike Goodson, Texas A&M; Kory Sheets, Purdue; Ian Johnson, Boise State; Jeremiah Johnson, Oregon; Javarris Williams, Tennessee State; P.J. Hill, Wisconsin; Aaron Brown, Texas Christian; Joshua Vaughan, Richmond.

FULLBACKS
Name School HT. WT. 40-Yd. Dash Rd.
1. TONY FIAMMETTA Syracuse 6-0 242 4.59 3
Two-year starter. "Love him," one scout said. "He can do everything. He's tough, competitive, smart (26 on the Wonderlic), he can catch, block. He'll be a starter." Finished with 16 carries for 89 (5.6) and 28 catches for 202. "Really great kid," another scout said. "He can catch the ball a little bit. He's a try-hard blocker. Doesn't have a lot of pop to him but he tries." His father spent 24 years in the Marines. Has a brother at the U.S. Naval Academy.
2. QUINN JOHNSON Louisiana State 6-1 249 4.79 4-5
"Finally there's a fullback," one scout said. "Best blocking fullback I've seen in a couple years. He was a linebacker that they moved (in '06). He doesn't ever run the ball or catch the ball but he's powerful." Backed up Jacob Hester for two seasons before starting in '08. Finished with 16 carries for 34 (2.1) and three TDs and five catches for 54. "Big man," another scout said. "He attacks you and has some power."
3. BRANNAN SOUTHERLAND Georgia 6-0 244 4.71 4-5
Started 25 of 47 games as Moreno's blocking back. "Does some good things," one scout said. "He's got a big body. He runs well. He's got some run skill. But my guess is he's going to flunk some physicals." Underwent shoulder surgery in 2005. Also, he has had two operations on the same foot in the last 18 months. "Super smart (26 on the Wonderlic)," another scout said. "He can do a lot of things in your offense from the standpoint of motion. You don't ever have to worry about this kid." Finished with 83 rushes for 171 yards (2.1) and 17 TDs and 35 receptions for 287.
4. EDDIE WILLIAMS Idaho 6-1 247 4.75 6
Started 11 games in '08 before blowing out his knee. "He's got three months to go on an ACL repair, so that will hurt him," one scout said. "He's a West Coast fullback or H-back." Far from a heavy-duty blocker. More of a finesse player who is smart (28 on the Wonderlic) and catches everything. Finished with 19 carries for 195 (10.3) and 100 receptions for 1,205 (12.1) and 11 TDs.
5. GARTRELL JOHNSON Colorado State 5-10 219 4.71 6-7
Every-down back with 472 carries for 2,471 (5.2) and 18 TDs and 45 receptions for 396. "Football's important to him," one scout said. "Team-first guy. One of the toughest guys on the team. He's just a rough, rugged, north-south runner. But teams won't be fired up about having a guy who ran in the mid-4.6s as their No. 1 back. He'd be a good No. 2 back." Might even be too slow for that, so he could project to FB, the position at which he started five games in '07. "Runs with an attitude," another scout said. "I thought he had a really good East-West Game and his bowl game was really dynamic. He wore Fresno State out (285 yards rushing)."

OTHERS: Brock Bolen, Louisville; Marcus Mailei, Weber State; Chris Pressley, Wisconsin; Jason Cook, Mississippi; Eric Kettani, Navy; Chris Ogbonnaya, Texas.
 

BAT

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I just laugh at all the doubters regarding Moreno. All anyone has to do is watch him play. He, like Emmitt & Payton, is the real deal. Forget his size or 40, just watch him play.


Greene is also underrated.
 

Chocolate Lab

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2. QUINN JOHNSON Louisiana State 6-1 249 4.79 4-5
"Finally there's a fullback," one scout said. "Best blocking fullback I've seen in a couple years. He was a linebacker that they moved (in '06). He doesn't ever run the ball or catch the ball but he's powerful." Backed up Jacob Hester for two seasons before starting in '08. Finished with 16 carries for 34 (2.1) and three TDs and five catches for 54. "Big man," another scout said. "He attacks you and has some power."
What about this guy?
 

irvin4evs

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He looked very athletic at LSU's pro day. I haven't actually seen him play. Seems like a more sensible FB option than Casey and we wouldn't need to take him nearly as high.
 

Bob Sacamano

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BAT;2742089 said:
I just laugh at all the doubters regarding Moreno. All anyone has to do is watch him play. He, like Emmitt & Payton, is the real deal. Forget his size or 40, just watch him play.


Greene is also underrated.

I agree about Knowshon, people knocked him for his average time at the Combine, and I just chuckled because Moreno didn't make his name on busting out 60 yard runs, he was getting caught from behind alot

he just gets yards in chunks
 
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