Any Texas Tech fans?

[silverbear]

and where did any of us argue we should take Filani on the first day? I said in the mid rounds, maybe as early as the 4th...........

Read a little closer, somebody else put up a post claiming he was rated a mid to late third rounder... that's the first day...

that would be a risk worth taking, especially to those of us who have seen him play a lot more than others.

Because I'm a Texas boy, and I enjoy watching wide-open offensive football, I have long made it a point to check out Tech when they're on the tube nationally... so I have seen Filani play a few games over his career, and I've seen him have some fair to middling days...

Nice try at making it sound like I've never seen the guy play, though...

 

[ghosttown cowboy]

No, *** TT

 

[Txguy86]

"So using that logic, if I get straight A's in junior high school, that means I'm destined to get a Masters degree with honors..."

If your making A's in junior high your expected to make them at higher levels guy


"Not when you run a 4.7 40, they don't... there ain't too many SMUs or Southeast Louisianas on your averaage everyday NFL schedule... "



Texas Tech is in the BIG 12 Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska. National champions have been produced from these teams. All three have also produced excellent football players in the NFL. Tech faces these teams every yr.

Now Im not saying draft filani on the first day, but the boy can play, period.

 

[WDN]

So using that logic, if I get straight A's in junior high school, that means I'm destined to get a Masters degree with honors...

Don't be a moron. You know that it does make it easier.

Against a bunch of DBs, the majority of whom will never make it in the NFL... yeah, that means he's ready to use and abuse Terence Newman... LOL...

Again what is he supposed to do. Go out and show he could play. I'm sure he showed more to the scouts than some laymen.

And I'll reiterate that if you can't run faster than a 4.7 40, it's HIGHLY unlikely that you'll ever amount to anything as an NFL WR, no matter how good your hands are (and Filani's are excellent)... if you can't get open, you won't get many balls thrown your way...

Again, you fail to acknowledge the two different speeds. They don't make this stuff up.

Then provide us with a link to where you found the quote you shared with us... it makes a difference, whether the guy who said it is an acknowldged draft "expert", or just some fantasy football geek with his own blog...

I manange to cite MY sources as to his draft prospect (well, actually, my one source at this point)...

It was in this thread.

http://www.dallascowboyscentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32736

I believe it was rivals.com.

And that IS his "fault"... it's also the point I've been making all along...

No it's not his fault. It's the fixation with the big schools. Tech runs an offense that is considered gimmick. He will get unfair perceptions to begin with.

Colston was rated to go right about where he did by those folks... really, it's pretty clear that you've never been to that website (if you had, you'd know that they gave Colston a pretty fair write up), so it's kinda weak for you to try to dismiss them without knowing what they're about, just because you don't like what they had to say about your precious WR...

I know that website and do read it. That doesn't take away the fact that Colston was probably the best rookie receiver in the draft. I guess he should of been chosen in the top 10. I know the website is pretty good but it doesn't mean they get them all right.

And I'm saying that beating the slower, less talented DBs he saw in college is NOT the same thing as beating NFL DBs... he probably hasn't faced more than 6-10 DBs in his entire NFL career who are that good...

I guess that is the same with everyone. What would you say Crayton faced?

Not when you run a 4.7 40, they don't... there ain't too many SMUs or Southeast Louisianas on your averaage everyday NFL schedule...

If you look back Tech generally faces a tough non-conference schedule. Go look it up. Look me back up when he does his proday as I am sure that time is going to be a bit better.

 

[silverbear]

"So using that logic, if I get straight A's in junior high school, that means I'm destined to get a Masters degree with honors..."

If your making A's in junior high your expected to make them at higher levels guy

Yeah, because Math is every bit as tough to learn as Calculus is... LOL...

Texas Tech is in the BIG 12 Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska. National champions have been produced from these teams. All three have also produced excellent football players in the NFL. Tech faces these teams every yr.

As a lifelong Horns fan, I'm well aware of who plays in the Big 12, pal... and the level of DB play you'll find in that conference, indeed in ANY conference in the NCAA, is less than what you'll find in the NFL...

In the big show, ALL the DBs you'll be facing were the stars of their college secondaries, the best pass defenders their teams had... and the others on the team, well, let's just say they wouldn't make it in the NFL...

The biggest difference between the NFL prospects at DB in NCAA ball and those who will never be ready for prime time is almost always SPEED... you'll run into a lot more semi-slow DBs in the Big 12 than you will in the NFL... and given that Filani's pretty slow his own self, that will be a big problem for him when he attempts to make that jump...

Now, am I saying that no WR with that kind of subpar speed can EVER make it in the NFL?? Of course not, I vividly remember Mike Renfro, who was a slow WR, beating Darrell Green deep once during Darrell's time as the NFL's fastest man... he put a stop and go move on Green that Darrell bit on big time, and was five yards behind him when the pass got to him... so there is some validity to saying a 4.7 guy could play more like a 4.5 guy if he runs especially precise routes...

But what I will say is that the odds are VERY long against a 4.7 40 type WR making it in today's NFL... this is precisely why Joel isn't higher rated than he is right now... and frankly, I'm not eager to spend a draft pick on that kind of a long shot...

Now Im not saying draft filani on the first day, but the boy can play, period.

He can definitely play in college, but you simply don't know if he can carry that over to the NFL (of course, I also don't know that he can't, though I feel I have good reason to be skeptical about that)... given the number of Heisman Trophy winners who never amounted to hammered crap in the NFL, it's pretty clear that success in college does not carry with it a guarantee of success in the NFL... conversely, there are a bunch of players who never really did a lot in college who blossomed in the NFL...

I know you and the others who are arguing with me in here are rooting for the boy, most of you because you're Tech fans, and I can respect that, but don't expect me to jump on the Filani train any time soon...

Mind you, he's on my draft board, but rather low on it... Hicks is on that board too, but a bit lower still...

 

[silverbear]

Again what is he supposed to do. Go out and show he could play.

Hey, I agree he's doing all he can do... I'm just pointing out that he's not doing it against the best DBs that college ball has to offer, that in fact the Shrine game didn't seem to draw many of the top DBs this year...

Again, you fail to acknowledge the two different speeds. They don't make this stuff up.

Uhhh, what "two different speeds" are you talking about??

If you're trying to base your argument on "he plays faster in games than he times", then I'll say that's an opinion utterly unsupported by fact, and again point out the he'll be facing much faster DBs in the NFL than he has in college, which will make his lack of speed even more of a disadvantage...

It was in this thread.

http://www.dallascowboyscentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32736

I believe it was rivals.com.

Thanks for linking me, unfortunately the boys on that board don't seem to be real big on citing their sources... but I can say it sounds like somebody who's being paid to cover the game for some publication, not some fantasy football geek offering his opinions... but until I have a better idea as to who exactly is doing the analyzing, I can't hope to form any kind of informed opinion as to his bonafides as a draft analyst...

Mind you, none of that is your fault, you did exactly as I requested, and I appreciate it... I enjoyed reading that thread...

Turns out I'm registered over there, but I don't remember ever signing up with them... LOL...

No it's not his fault. It's the fixation with the big schools. Tech runs an offense that is considered gimmick. He will get unfair perceptions to begin with.

Yeah, that's true, but it's not the basis of my reservations... I will discount the numbers that quarterbacks put up in those systems, but a productive WR is a productive WR...

What I was saying was his "fault" was his relative lack of speed...

I know that website and do read it. That doesn't take away the fact that Colston was probably the best rookie receiver in the draft. I guess he should of been chosen in the top 10. I know the website is pretty good but it doesn't mean they get them all right.

No, they don't... but then again, show me ONE website that had Colston as high as his production this year suggests he should have been...

I'll also suggest that it's beyond silly to compare Colston to Filani, and to insinuate the Joel is that good...

If you look back Tech generally faces a tough non-conference schedule. Go look it up.

You probably should have done that before trying to go down that road... here's who they played in their non-conference schedule THIS year:

SMU-- 6-6 record

UTEP-- 5-7 record

TCU-- 11-2 record

Southeast Louisiana-- 2-9 record

Doesn't look like too tough a schedule to me... in fact, other than TCU (a game they lost), it looks like a succession of creampuffs... having attended UTEP my own self, it pains me to say that...

Look me back up when he does his proday as I am sure that time is going to be a bit better.

And if it is, I'll move him up my board a bit... but if he runs anywhere close to the 4.76 that is being attributed to him, then he'll remain a later round draft pick on my board, and I suspect, on most NFL teams' boards as well...

Look, it ain't like I hate the guy, or Tech football, or anything... like I said, I'm a fan of wide-open, offensive oriented football... but I do not believe that a wide receiver who runs the 40 in the 4.7 range does not stand a particularly good chance of being successful in the NFL...

 

[DandyDon]

I actually like the Guard from Tech - I think his name is Manual Ramirez.

 

[jterrell]

geez, missed this thread for far too long~

Joel Filani and Hicks are probably both late day 1/early day 2 guys.

Hicks is eerily similar to Antonio Bryant. Perhaps a step slower and a little less trouble but generally the same mold. He is skinny, tall and can really catch. Not a blazer and not a great team guy.

Filani is strong and runs great routes. Size, speed and hands put him in the league as a 3rd or 4th WR who might find a nitch somewhere and really excel.

Texas Tech may create system QBs(they recruit system QBs) but the WRs are very legit NFL type prospects because Tech can pick and choose what WRs to recruit.

Wes Welker, as mentionned above, was someone I noted as a return guy last year and Miami found a way to get him on the field in the regular offense. He was never a bigger target than Filani or Hicks at Tech but he was always a big part of the game play.

 

[jterrell]

SB, WDN:

Entertaining stuff.

Just a few notes.

Filani is 6'3" and 216 pounds. Being that big, he doesn't need to do more than run a 4.65 to go day 1.

nfldraftcountdown is solid enough, but they are not infalliable. all of the draftnik sites are amatuerish but even the blesto guys miss left and right. the best guide is your own eyes.... The draftnik sites will re-arrange their boards 20 times before the draft hits.

Thw 20th WR generally goes in round 5. nfldraftcountdown thus rates him as thus. Not that far off IMHO. I expect he goes in round 3/4.

With proper training few guys are limited to any 4.76 speed. I'll bet they have him running 4.5's at the training center and he runs under 4.65 at the pro day. Tech has a fast track.

He isn't Calvin Johnson by any means, but he can play ball as GDM suggests.

College DBs are all over the place, schemes are all over the place any discussion of who you play is rather silly because everyone plays crazy opponents in college.

I had one long argument with a draftnik site owner about Quinten Jammer. He didn't like him, I did. I wanted Dallas to draft him and not RW.
He was probably at least partially right. BUT, he suggested Phillip Buchanon was markedly better. WRONG! He suggested a small school guy was markedly better. WRONG!(that guy isnt even in the league any more) He used the numbers Reggie Williams posted against Jammer as his defense. 2 problems there. 1, I watched the game and Jammer was picked(not legal in a pro game) on 2 of the catches and Reggie Williams had put up better numbers against Miami with Buchanon, Rumph and Ed Reed in the seconary the same season. ROFL!

 

[silverbear]

SB, WDN:

Entertaining stuff.

Just a few notes.

Filani is 6'3" and 216 pounds. Being that big, he doesn't need to do more than run a 4.65 to go day 1.

Sorry, I think that's highly unlikely... give me a list of the WRs with that kind of 40 time who have gone on Day One in the last 5 years... or 10 years, or whatever time frame you might wish to choose...

Thw 20th WR generally goes in round 5. nfldraftcountdown thus rates him as thus. Not that far off IMHO. I expect he goes in round 3/4.

That sounds about right, as far as the current projection for the guy...

With proper training few guys are limited to any 4.76 speed. I'll bet they have him running 4.5's at the training center and he runs under 4.65 at the pro day. Tech has a fast track.

It was on that track that he posted the 4.76, apparently... which makes the time even worse, wouldn't you say??

I said it before, if with speed training he can get his time down to the 4.6 range, his draft stock will rise appreciably... however, I'm not as sanguine as you are about his chances of improving his 40 times that dramatically... my reasoning is that he knew last offseason that he was considered a bonafide pro prospect, and he knew what kind of 40 times he was running, and how those times would negatively impact his draft stock... so I rather expect that he did a bit of speed training last offseason...

He isn't Calvin Johnson by any means, but he can play ball as GDM suggests.

In college... you can't say with any certainty that he can carry that over to the NFL... again, indulge me with a list of the current NFL WRs who run 40s in the range that Filani does... even Anquan Boldin's times were a bit faster than that...

So I'll stand by my firm conviction that unless you're right, and he can get those 40 times down (and by a fairly significant amount), he not only will be a late round pick, he'll also have a problem sticking on a 53 man roster...

College DBs are all over the place, schemes are all over the place any discussion of who you play is rather silly because everyone plays crazy opponents in college.

My only point in bringing that up is that NFL DBs are better than NCAA DBs... for sure, they tend to be a lot faster...

Or do you disagree with that argument?? Do you think that he faced the same kind of competition at Tech that he'll face in the NFL??

 

[silverbear]

I actually like the Guard from Tech - I think his name is Manual Ramirez.

He's my favorite Tech draft prospect this year... he has what it takes to play in the NFL, IMO, but I don't know if the Boys will be interested in him, since they seem to be more focused on the quicker, agile lineman rather than good old fashioned maulers like Manny...

But if they call his name in the 2nd or 3rd round range, I'll certainly approve of the pick...

 

[Deputy493]

You probably should have done that before trying to go down that road... here's who they played in their non-conference schedule THIS year:

SMU-- 6-6 record

UTEP-- 5-7 record

TCU-- 11-2 record

Southeast Louisiana-- 2-9 record

At TCU is a game most in the Big XII would not take in their NCS and the Tech NCS was certainly much better than the A&M NCS this year (which was a joke) and UT outisde of OSU in Austin played North Texas, Sam Houston and Rice for their NCS........what WDN is refering to is Tech usually has one of the toughest NCS in the nation......the past two years have been the exception.......I remember in 2002 for instance when Tech had the toughest schedule in the nation, our NCS was at Ohio State, NC State (Phil Rivers), Ole Miss (Eli Manning), and before 2 seasons ago we played New Mexico every year....the next year we played NC State and Ole Miss again on the road, both still had Rivers and Manning......over the past several seasons we have opened up at Tennessee, at Penn State, at Georgia, Arizona State, Fresno State, Miami several years ago when I went there.....while UT and A&M were playing the likes of Rice, North Texas and Sam Houston..........I find it funny that after two years of deciding to play a lesser NCS Tech gets bashed, yet it is fine for A&M and UT to do it every year................the UTEP game this year was in El Paso and they were jacked up for that game, not a usual cream puff game................for a guy that keeps claiming you arent a Tech hater, you sure sound like one.

To Filani, as I said he is worth taking a flyer on in Day 2 there is a high risk reward, Robert Johnson the same.....Hicks does not have his head screwed on right so forget him....I was right when I said we should've signed Wes Welker a couple of years ago when many said he was system and too small and too slow, I think I am right again......as far as your earlier comment about me saying you haven't seen him play, I did not say that, I said you haven't seen him play nearly as often as myself (a Tech grad) or WDN and I can tell by your nit picking and your failure to see the difference between his straight 40 speed and his game speed.........if you only caught him on National TV that was not that often as Tech only played a few N TV games this year and last.

Manny would be a good pick, with all Tech O-Linmen though he would need to work on his run blocking mainly from lack of experience.

 

[Txguy86]

:shoot4:

 

[KDWilliams85]

I think it's rather sad that you knock him. So what he isn't speedy. His speed doesn't make him a threat. His ability to break away and keep himself elevated is what will make a killing.

It's not about how quickly you can cover ground. It's how effectively you can do so. Speed may give you an edge but if you can get trumped by someone equally as speedy, if not moreso, that edge you want has become a hinderance.

Filani offers an excellent set of hands. He can take a shot and keep moving. He can be a gamebreaker if you let him.

He deserves to be looked at in the 3rd round. Especially since all of your "elite" defensive backs are no bigger than 5'10" and about 190 lbs.

 

[silverbear]

At TCU is a game most in the Big XII would not take in their NCS and the Tech NCS was certainly much better than the A&M NCS this year (which was a joke) and UT outisde of OSU in Austin played North Texas, Sam Houston and Rice for their NCS........

It was also the ONLY even semi-tough team that Tech played outside of their conference, and I was responding to a claim that they played a tough non-conference schedule...

They didn't, period...

And when exactly did I claim that the Horns played a tough non-conference schedule?? As was the case with Tech, they played one good team out of conference this year...

what WDN is refering to is Tech usually has one of the toughest NCS in the nation......the past two years have been the exception.......

And the past two years have been the two most productive of Filani's career... you seem to be trying to argue with me, yet you're making more or less the point I've been making here...

the UTEP game this year was in El Paso and they were jacked up for that game, not a usual cream puff game................

Wow... I mean, wow... a team that wound up under .500 was all "jacked up" to play Tech... how did they EVER manage to come out with a W?? They certainly should have climbed at least 10 spots in the polls, after such a quality win...

for a guy that keeps claiming you arent a Tech hater, you sure sound like one.

I'm doing nothing but telling the truth... and mostly, I'm doing it in response to the arguments from you Techies... if telling the truth makes me a "hater" in your world, I reckon I can live with the accusation (knowing that there ain't a bit of truth to the accusation-- except, of course, any time Tech plays the Horns)...

 

[InmanRoshi]

Sorry, I think that's highly unlikely... give me a list of the WRs with that kind of 40 time who have gone on Day One in the last 5 years.

In Day 1? Lots. Larry Fitzgerald officially ran a 4.63 and he went with a Top 3 pick.

 

[silverbear]

I think it's rather sad that you knock him.

It's "sad" that I point out he has a deficiency which is liable to hurt his draft stock, and his chances of making it in the NFL??

Well, sorry, but as a draftaholic, when I make such analyses, it's not with any bias toward or against any team-- if the freakin' Sooners have a good player, he's on my draft board... and when I rate where I think the player will go, it's not based on MY opinions of his game, but rather on where the assorted draft gurus that I follow say they think he'll go...

So, it's not only MY criticism that his lack of speed will hurt him in the NFL, it seems to be the opinion of those doing the evaluating... think about it, look at the terrific numbers he put up in college, then ask yourself why Filani is NOT considered an elite draft prospect...

It's not because I'm a "Tech hater", it's because of that 4.76 40 time, and nothing else...

So what he isn't speedy. His speed doesn't make him a threat. His ability to break away and keep himself elevated is what will make a killing.

The problem you Filani apologists seem to refuse to recognize is that in the NFL, where the game is FASTER, he won't have that "ability to break away"...

Filani offers an excellent set of hands. He can take a shot and keep moving. He can be a gamebreaker if you let him.

I agree about his hands and his physicality, sincerely doubt that he'll ever be a "gamebreaker" in the NFL... try to think back a bit, see if you can think of some college "gamebreakers" who never amounted to much in the big show...

He deserves to be looked at in the 3rd round.

In your opinion, which is obviously so biased as to be safely discounted... excuse me if I go with the opinions of the draft gurus out there, over yours...

 

[silverbear]

In Day 1? Lots. I can name you one that went with a Top 3 pick. Larry Fitzgerald officially ran a 4.63.

4.63 is rather a different story than a 4.76... if a big WR runs crisp enough routes, I can live with him running in the 4.6 range...

 

[WDN]

4.63 is rather a different story than a 4.76... if a big WR runs crisp enough routes, I can live with him running in the 4.6 range...

So you are only going by one time?

4.65 here.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/college.php?DSTeamId=21&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC


4.70 here.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/wr/joelfilani.html


4.6s here

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=5260&Sport=1


There is 3 different ones for you to choose from. I did see another one that had him at 4.65 but I can't remember where it was. I chalked up that 4.76 as other issues.

 

[WDN]

As far as the last two years being the most productive years that was due to other receivers graduating. Not so much the lack of competition.