Anyone find it gross that coaches used to get ridiculed for going for it on 4th and short?

[Flamma]

Dont get me wrong...I appreciate the math guys for solving the 4th and short issue...football is way more fun when played how Dan Campbell plays. His team is stacked....but the style is fun for fans and players.

All 4th and 1 situations are not the same. If you just got stuffed on 2nd and 3rd and 1 from midfield, hopefully you don't need analytics to tell you what to do up by 10 midway through the 4th.

Analytics probably has a role, I'm just not sure it's with 4th and 1 situations. They're not that complicated. Like asking a computer the likelihood of the contents of my refrigerator being cold. I just think in the past coaches were worried about being scrutinized over doing something outside the box.

 

[FanofJerry]

All 4th and 1 situations are not the same. If you just got stuffed on 2nd and 3rd and 1 from midfield, hopefully you don't need analytics to tell you what to do up by 10 midway through the 4th.

Analytics probably has a role, I'm just not sure it's with 4th and 1 situations. They're not that complicated. Like asking a computer the likelihood of the contents of my refrigerator being cold. I just think in the past coaches were worried about being scrutinized over doing something outside the box.

Kudo's...great point. I dont have the vision to see that.

Please tell me your answer is punt? :/

 

[Flamma]

Kudo's...great point. I dont have the vision to see that.

Please tell me your answer is punt? :/

Of course it is punt.

 

[atlantacowboy]

With today's bigger, muscular QBs, QB sneaks are lot tougher to stop. We didn't have Qbs like Hurts, Mahomes, or Josh Allen in 80's. I mean, Dan Fouts probably couldn't have scrambled to the sideline without getting winded.

 

[FanofJerry]

Of course it is punt.

na na na na na...dont play me like that ha

my head had to work for it

im not perfect

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

in the above situation with like 2 minutes left?

everyone knows the possible outcomes and what has to happen...you dont need better information. maybe if it was early 4th quarter.

i dont think you do what you say you are advocating for in my above situation.

missing that 2 pointer turns it into another 2 possession game and makes things way harder with the onside kick. makes no sense and I dont think even many coaches would agree with analytics in a crunched situation.

youre using smart words to make it sound gospel. how is better information in that situation beneficial? I dont think good info, which usually rules, trumps the scenario I provided.

your talking modeling momentum and getting scienc-y, im talking I have 2 minutes here and I dont want to have to make a 2 possession game a 3 possession game with an onside kick...in 2 minutes just to tie.

I dont think youre doing it just to sound like a smart guy on the podium and say "well, it didnt work, but analytics has my back so I dont care what you all think"

Youre turning a large mole hill to climb into a mountain in a 2 minute situation because you chose analytics.

I am just not interested in entertaining your anecdote. If you want to find meaning go ahead.

 

[FanofJerry]

I am just not interested in entertaining your anecdote. If you want to find meaning go ahead.

lol

your answer sums it up...

pretty sad the illusion spreads deep lies like that.

'the better info' excuse which is what the analytics guys leaned into sounds good...but, even my dumb butt sniffed it out.

and youre still pushing it and wont come off it. youre a bot.

ive given an example i dont think any analytics guy can trump.

 

[DallasEast]

lol

your answer sums it up...

pretty sad the illusion spreads deep lies like that.

'the better info' excuse which is what the analytics guys leaned into sounds good...but, even my dumb butt sniffed it out.

and youre still pushing it and wont come off it. youre a bot.

ive given an example i dont think any analytics guy can trump.

A difference in opinion is not automatically lying.

 

[FanofJerry]

A difference in opinion is not automatically lying.

lame...

how do you weigh 'better info' more heavily than 'turning a mole hill into a mountain'

i think youre just gonna side-step as a desperate gaslight...grifting for gaslighting...

this board is losing me with all the trash.

lies, refusing to answer people with decent points, dak and jerry hate...

its grifting....and its pathetic and you know it.

if you could make a cent off a squirrel...you would be banging a stick against a tree right now. its pathetic

 

[DallasEast]

this board is losing me with all the trash.

Do you have a set level of trash? How much more do you need? I can volunteer all the trash you believe you need.

 

[FanofJerry]

Do you have a set level of trash? How much more do you need? I can volunteer all the trash you believe you need.

Hey...at least you didnt ban me this time.

I respect that.

 

[DallasEast]

Hey...at least you didnt ban me this time.

I respect that.

That is nice to read but it does not answer the question(s).

 

[FanofJerry]

Me being the reasonable person...

I think its more fair for you to answer why you think its ok to offer trash, and then reinforce it with offering as much as anyone needs?

Does that sound like its good for existence?

It sounds anti-social? As a mod on a forum that supposedly is a symposium for 'multiple people to discuss Cowboys'...how can you be anti-social in a social environment unless its all a lie and your grifting?

 

[DallasEast]

Me being the reasonable person...

I think its more fair for you to answer why you think its ok to offer trash, and then reinforce it with offering as much as anyone needs?

Does that sound like its good for existence?

It sounds anti-social? As a mod on a forum that supposedly is a symposium for 'multiple people to discuss Cowboys'...how can you be anti-social in a social environment unless its all a lie and your grifting?

That is a long reply to simply not answer questions posed to you.

 

[FanofJerry]

That is a long reply to simply not answer questions posed to you.

You took it to unreasonable...not me

 

[DallasEast]

You took it to unreasonable...not me

Unreasonable? You stated:

this board is losing me with all the trash.

That reads as if your tether to the site is about to snap. And 'trash' is the catalyst to snapping that tether. The amount of trash that can severe the connection is the only unknown variable. I am curious. And can volunteer whatever remaining amount of trash is needed.

It is not healthy to cling to uncomfortable things. I am trying to help. Let me.

 

[DallasEast]

Well. I have refreshed my screen way too many times for far too long, lol.

@FanofJerry. @FuzzyLumpkins is a long-time, excellent CowboysZone poster. His way of communicating has never changed.

It may not be easy to accept (I know he has put me in a corner or two over the years ) but he has always been sincere with his posts given from his perspective.

Just a point of view, knowing a disagreement (again) is not necessarily a lie. Certainly, that was not the case in this instance.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well. I have refreshed my screen way too many times for far too long, lol.

@FanofJerry. @FuzzyLumpkins is a long-time, excellent CowboysZone poster. His way of communicating has never changed.

It may not be easy to accept (I know he has put me in a corner or two over the years ) but he has always been sincere with his posts given from his perspective.

Just a point of view, knowing a disagreement (again) is not necessarily a lie. Certainly, that was not the case in this instance.

I just do not feel like unpacking his anecdote. If he doesn't believe in analytics I do not care. If he feels that anecdote is a compelling argument against statistical analysis I can live with it.

Generally speaking, when someone presents such a magic bullet in argument my brain rejects it automatically. To each their own.

I started here talking about NFL culture in the modern era. I am not even sure why I have to take a side. Now I am being demonized. Seems a bit over the top.

 

[gtb1943]

a fourth and one decision has the factors I list and anyone who wants to can add them:
your team coachin
time of the game
the score
the weather
the kicker
the QB
the rest of the Offense

the defense
the other teams coaching

who is injured and how good are their backups playing

how good is everyone playing

how important is this game for both teams

how secure is the coaches on both teams in their jobs

how is the game itself going for both sides

anyone got any more?




The finest computer ever is what is between our ears.
and it does not run on strictly logic.
hunches and feelings and your gut.


show me a computer program that does all that.

 

[FanofJerry]

lol