Archer: For Vita Vea to make sense, Cowboys might have to do some convincing

[Alexander]

For Vita Vea to make sense, Cowboys might have to do some convincing
1:35 PM ET

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  Todd ArcherESPN Staff Writer

FRISCO, Texas -- The Dallas Cowboys finished the 2017 season with a struggling offense, but it appears the defense is still more of a concern if you ask ESPN Insider Mel Kiper Jr.

In his first mock draft, Kiper has the Cowboys selecting Washington defensive tackle Vita Vea with the 19th overall pick. Fellow ESPN Insider Todd McShay also had the Cowboys taking a defensive tackle in his first mock draft in Christian Wilkins, but he has elected to return to Clemson for another season.

Stephen Paea at nose tackle. Hayden was underrated in his time with the Cowboys, but he was not a dynamic interior player. Paea's first season with the Cowboys was cut short by a knee injury.

When the Cowboys lost Paea in 2017, they moved Maliek Collins to the nose tackle spot. He was OK, but the Cowboys came to love Collins his rookie year as the under tackle. He had to play out of position most of the season and was not able to replicate the success he had as a rookie.

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...ense-cowboys-might-have-to-do-some-convincing

 

[Sydla]

Seriously.......... screw Marinelli.

Stop listening to that over the hill geezer and pick the best player there and if it's a Vea or Payne, two run stuffing DTs, then ******* do it Jerry, you freaking knob head.

 

[Risen Star]

It would take a philosophical change on defense and that's hard to imagine without a change at defensive coordinator.

So, no.

We might get some cool new t-shirt designs though.

 

[Alexander]

I think it is just plain sad that a defensive coordinator has that much say on who is drafted.

But I cannot visualize any other DC in the entire league that basically can veto an entire player type all by himself.

That is simply a bad organizational practice as you are beholden to that coach and his system more than simply taking quality players. Once he is gone, you may be stuck with a customized group of players that a new coach will be asking to change out.

I cannot think of any defense Vea could not help. He is not your typical space eating blob.

Best interior DT of his kind since Ngata.

 

[Rayman70]

I want DaRon Payne from Bama or Vea. You build great defenses from the interior,period. Both present problems for opposing olines.

 

[reddyuta]

**** the Old man,he likes guys like Joey Ivey who cant even make the PS,i hope the FO has learned the lesson of not trusting his drafting acumen.

 

[Sydla]

I think it is just plain sad that a defensive coordinator has that much say on who is drafted.

But I cannot visualize any other DC in the entire league that basically can veto an entire player type all by himself.

That is simply a bad organizational practice as you are beholden to that coach and his system more than simply taking quality players. Once he is gone, you may be stuck with a customized group of players that a new coach will be asking to change out.

I cannot think of any defense Vea could not help. He is not your typical space eating blob.

Best interior DT of his kind since Ngata.

Here's how the conversation should go:

Jerry - Rod, we are going to take Vea at 19.

Rod - Who the hell is that?

Jerry - He's the big fat kid with long hair from Washington. He's a DT and can stop the run. He's Samoan or from Fiji or Jamaica.

Rod - I don't like it. We don't need a guy like that in our defense.

Jerry - Your defense has been mediocre, so zip it and I will take whomever I like.


The conversation will actually go like this:

Jerry - Rod, we may draft the DT from Washington at 19.

Rod - I don't need him. I have a guy from West Texas Christian Bible School I like better. I forbid drafting Vea.

Jerry - OK.

 

[btcutter]

It's time organization realize the Marinelli is NOT GOOD at picking DL

2014 Lawrence, Gardner, Bishop
2015 Gregory, Russell
2016 Collins, Tapper
2017 Taco, Ivie, Carrell

Lawrence is a hit. Collins (has some hope), Tapper (JAG), Taco (some hope).....Rest no longer on the team.

Time to let Will McClay do the grocery shopping.

 

[Risen Star]

I think it is just plain sad that a defensive coordinator has that much say on who is drafted.

But I cannot visualize any other DC in the entire league that basically can veto an entire player type all by himself.

That's not really true. You're not going to draft a pass rush LB if your coordinator's running a 4-3 base.

 

[Alexander]

**** the Old man,he likes guys like Joey Ivey who cant even make the PS,i hope the FO has learned the lesson of not trusting his drafting acumen.

You can look at Marinelli's track record with drafting defensive linemen and it is a very mixed bag. Once you get outside of Tampa, where I don't think he had nearly as much say on who they picked it is pretty mediocre.

Detroit - Ikaika Alama-Francis (3rd); Andre Fluellen (3rd); Cliff Avril (3rd); Landon Cohen (7th)
Chicago - Jarron Gilbert (3rd); Henry Melton (3rd); Corey Wootton (4th); Stephen Paea (2nd)

I would call it one true "hit" with Avril and it took him going to Seattle to prosper. Only Lawrence has shown a legitimate glimmer thus far in Dallas.

He does a much better job getting veterans to play harder and better than he does identifying young talent that can play well right off the bat.

 

[Sydla]

That's not really true. You're not going to draft a pass rush LB if your coordinator's running a 4-3 base.

It happens, probably infrequently though. Denver did with Von Miller. They had hired John Fox in 2011 and he switched them to a 4-3 defense and they still took Miller in the draft despite many thinking he was the best 3-4 rush LB in the draft.

 

[Alexander]

That's not really true. You're not going to draft a pass rush LB if your coordinator's running a 4-3 base.

I think that is a little different than this. A 3-4 team is not going to turn up it's nose at a 4-3 DT from college that is capable of two gapping and shifting to end.

Marinelli is eliminating an entire player type. He is basically calling out traits and saying if you are not "quick twitch" enough, you can't play in my defense. Meanwhile he has lumps like Nick Hayden, who was about as twitchy as a sloth, playing for years for him.

 

[Alexander]

It happens, probably infrequently though. Denver did with Von Miller. They had hired John Fox in 2011 and he switched them to a 4-3 defense and they still took Miller in the draft despite many thinking he was the best 3-4 rush LB in the draft.

There have been some of that type that transcend being pigeon-holed.

It means the pass rusher is special. Miller was like that. Myles Garrett was like that. Joey Bosa was like that. Clowney was like that.

Vea is a special DT.

 

[Risen Star]

It happens, probably infrequently though. Denver did with Von Miller. They had hired John Fox in 2011 and he switched them to a 4-3 defense and they still took Miller in the draft despite many thinking he was the best 3-4 rush LB in the draft.

A team's draft board is not a ranking of the best football players that particular year in ability alone but a combination of ability and team fit. If a team runs a man heavy scheme in their secondary they are not going to have a zone only CB very high on their board whereas the next team that runs more zone might. They could have the same opinion on his NFL future but one team just doesn't see him as a fit.

So in that sense, yes, your coordinators are influencing the picks. But who hires them? The head coach and the front office. So they ultimately are the guys responsible.

When they chose to retain Rod Marinelli they said no to a guy like Vea in the first round. It's not happening.

 

[JustChip]

Seriously.......... screw Marinelli.

Stop listening to that over the hill geezer and pick the best player there and if it's a Vea or Payne, two run stuffing DTs, then ******* do it Jerry, you freaking knob head.

Well said! Always take the BPA regardless. Makes the "next man up" mantra actually work.

 

[Risen Star]

I think that is a little different than this. A 3-4 team is not going to turn up it's nose at a 4-3 DT from college that is capable of two gapping and shifting to end.

Marinelli is eliminating an entire player type. He is basically calling out traits and saying if you are not "quick twitch" enough, you can't play in my defense. Meanwhile he has lumps like Nick Hayden, who was about as twitchy as a sloth, playing for years for him.

We agree. We both think it's dumb and a mistake. There's no question in my mind a monster like Vea would instantly make this defense better. I just believe that Rod will remain steadfast in his beliefs and the draft board will be stacked accordingly.

 

[Sydla]

A team's draft board is not a ranking of the best football players that particular year in ability alone but a combination of ability and team fit. If a team runs a man heavy scheme in their secondary they are not going to have a zone only CB very high on their board whereas the next team that runs more zone might. They could have the same opinion on his NFL future but one team just doesn't see him as a fit.

So in that sense, yes, your coordinators are influencing the picks. But who hires them? The head coach and the front office. So they ultimately are the guys responsible.

When they chose to retain Rod Marinelli they said no to a guy like Vea in the first round. It's not happening.

I am not arguing with any of that. Just pointing out that a team did in fact do what you said - draft a 3-4 pass rushing OLB when running a 4-3.

 

[Sydla]

Vea is a special DT.

The old fart will clearly disagree.

 

[Alexander]

We agree. We both think it's dumb and a mistake. There's no question in my mind a monster like Vea would instantly make this defense better. I just believe that Rod will remain steadfast in his beliefs and the draft board will be stacked accordingly.

If what you are saying about the board being constructed accordingly, then Will McClay is pretty complicit to what the coaches want and has no independent vision. In fact, he owes his very promotion to the whole Sharif Floyd scenario where they passed on the fifth rated player on the board based on Marinelli's input.

 

[Clove]

I said last year and I'll say it again this year, I don't give a spit what Marinelli says because he's failed getting a dominant Dline, so I'm picking who I want, and it's his job to coach and make them dominant.