News: Archer: Revisiting Shariff Floyd and Frederick/Williams selections

[Alexander]

the Escobar pick is the baffling one!

It is irritating to me each time I see him stumbling around on the field.

To think, we had Williams rated higher, but still took him. Fortunately, we were able to get Williams, who is looking like a future starter each week.

 

[yimyammer]

I prefer the odds of getting two players with one pick (wish they had done this instead of trading up for Claiborne and possibly gotten an additional pick/player in the process). The injuries and attrition are so high, I don't think a team can rely on a few superstars because it deteriates the quality of the rest of your team and puts you In a real bind if that superstar goes down or doesn't reach expectations. Not to mention getting married to high draft picks due to their draft picks and salary cost. They can have more flexibility with lower round players and more depth, IMHO.

Lastly, no team can win in this league without a quality QB and regardless of what you feel about Romo, they are committed to him for the next 3-4 years so its incumbent on the team to protect him with the best line possible, which can't hurt Romos replacement when that fast approaching day arrives.

 

[Kaiser]

It's hard to argue that Floyd wasn't a perfect match to a position of need.

It wasn't a position of need until Crawford and Bass were injured - which happened long after the draft. The team doctors were also telling them Ratliff would be healthy for the coming season at that point also.

OL was a huge, huge area of need but DL wasn't on the day of the draft. There was significant risk in moving down just like you point out, but the move clearly worked to the Cowboys advantage in this case.

 

[hornitosmonster]

We made the right choice on draft day. That is why Jerry is running the Cowboys and you guys are posting on a message board

 

[JD_KaPow]

It wasn't a position of need until Crawford and Bass were injured - which happened long after the draft. The team doctors were also telling them Ratliff would be healthy for the coming season at that point also.

OL was a huge, huge area of need but DL wasn't on the day of the draft. There was significant risk in moving down just like you point out, but the move clearly worked to the Cowboys advantage in this case.

Ratliff is 32, Hatcher is 31 and at the end of his contract. There is/was no evidence that Bass and Crawford were studs in waiting. It was clearly a position of need. Maybe not #1 on the list, but high enough that when the #5 guy on your board drops to you at that position, you would normally be ecstatic.

I'm not saying it wasn't the right call based on results. I'm actually really happy with how it worked out. It's the process by which we got there that concerns me. The Cowboys draft process has, IMHO, been much improved the last few years. I'm thinking (and hoping) that this move was an anomaly, one that didn't hurt us in the end.

 

[Kaiser]

Ratliff is 32, Hatcher is 31 and at the end of his contract. There is/was no evidence that Bass and Crawford were studs in waiting. It was clearly a position of need. Maybe not #1 on the list, but high enough that when the #5 guy on your board drops to you at that position, you would normally be ecstatic.

Normally you would, but if you are expecting Rat (four time Pro Bowler) and Hatcher (beast) to start and have seen Crawford, Bass and Hayden doing well in the off season practices, its not a big priority. You have a lot of option and Floyd might spend the season as third string in that scenario, which is apparently what Marinelli said on Draft Day.

I'm not disagreeing with your post, I just think OL was a huge, huge priority and if Floyd wasn't really a scheme fit, they were better off rolling the dice on a trade down. DL was a need, but it was more of a dashboard light flashing "Fasten your seatbelt" while OL was the smoke billowing out from under the hood of the car.

 

[Cowboys22]

Let's be careful here. We were picking at #18. If you believe the leaked draft board, we had the following players ranked as 1st-rounders and available to us:

5. Floyd
11. Rhodes
13. Patterson
15. Eifert
17. Werner

It's hard to argue that Floyd wasn't a perfect match to a position of need. By trading down, we passed up on the #5 player on our board (and all other first-rounders on our board) and ended up getting our #22 and #23 players (we were probably assured of getting Frederick, but there was no guarantee we'd get Williams the way we played it, so there's risk too). Going by the old trade value chart (I don't have a better way to value this), that's a 10% loss. And just in general, when your #5 player falls to you at #18 AND fits a need, you take him unless you're completely blown away by a trade offer. And that was not a mind-blowing offer. I can't imagine that they made this move based purely on their board and the values they saw.

I think it was a little bit of panic about all the OL flying off the board and a little bit of Kiffin/Marinelli being new coaches with a new scheme who weren't quite in perfect synch yet with the scouts yet. And so they were a little softer on Floyd than they normally would be on their #5 player, and they were a little desperate, and so a team that has been really good lately about drafting their board bent their rules. And I think they got lucky about how well it worked out. And I also think it will prove to be the exception rather than the rule: we followed our board very closely the rest of the way and I expect we'll be back to that next year.

None of that matters and they did not bend their rules. They simply liked what they thought they could get at 31 plus what they could get with an extra 3rd more than they liked what was left on the board. It's also a known fact that Kiffin and Marinelli were not as high on Floyd as the scouts were so when it came time to make the decision, Jones had lackluster support for a free falling player versus a less than stellar trade down offer. He chose the trade down to pick up the extra 3rd. It's not like he picked Frederick with Floyd still on the board.

 

[JD_KaPow]

None of that matters and they did not bend their rules. They simply liked what they thought they could get at 31 plus what they could get with an extra 3rd more than they liked what was left on the board. It's also a known fact that Kiffin and Marinelli were not as high on Floyd as the scouts were so when it came time to make the decision, Jones had lackluster support for a free falling player versus a less than stellar trade down offer. He chose the trade down to pick up the extra 3rd. It's not like he picked Frederick with Floyd still on the board.

What are we disagreeing about? They didn't draft their board like they usually do. Part of that is because their board wasn't as solid as it usually is.

 

[tecolote]

So Jerry makes a very good trade and people still complain because the player they did not pick isn't doing all that well? Jerry can't win.

 

[Cowboys22]

What are we disagreeing about? They didn't draft their board like they usually do. Part of that is because their board wasn't as solid as it usually is.

You keep saying they didn't draft their board but I don't believe you can say that when they traded down and got an extra pick. Not drafting your board would be staying at that spot and choosing a player that was not the highest rated on your board. Trading down does not equal "not drafting your board" in my book, it simply means you like the value of multiple picks over the guys available.

 

[Beast_from_East]

Week 9 and we're still talking about the draft..SMH

Or we could talk about how we finally won back to back road games and how we are separating ourselves from the rest of the division and how Garrett is really coming into his own just being a walk around head coach, the extra time he can devote to situational football is really paying off.

Oh wait.....................

 

[JD_KaPow]

You keep saying they didn't draft their board but I don't believe you can say that when they traded down and got an extra pick. Not drafting your board would be staying at that spot and choosing a player that was not the highest rated on your board. Trading down does not equal "not drafting your board" in my book, it simply means you like the value of multiple picks over the guys available.

Obviously I can't prove it, but when your #5 player is available to you at #18 and, rather than take him, you make a trade down that returns you less than favorable value by all the usual measures, you're not drafting the board as it sits there. It's clear to me that they either didn't believe in their board as much as they usually do or they decided to move away from BPA and toward a specific need. Probably a bit of both.

 

[Beast_from_East]

If it was up to Garrett we would have Floyd.

Exactly...............Garrett was beyond pissed on the war room cam. Both Jerry and Steven went over and talked to him after the trade down happened. Anybody can tell by just body language that Garrett was not on board with the decision. Of course he will never say that, but we all know.

 

[Beast_from_East]

We made the right choice on draft day. That is why Jerry is running the Cowboys and you guys are posting on a message board

1 playoff win in 17 seasons is not something to be pounding your chest over if you are Jerry.


In all seriousness, if you took one of us off this board and gave us 17 years with full control over the draft and free agency...............I think we could manage 1 playoff win in almost 2 decades.

 

[speedkilz88]

Floyd has 1.5 sks, it looks pretty clear he was not the pass rusher needed for this defense. Marinellia and Kiffin were proven correct.


Jason Hatcher playing the 3 tech in 8 games so far:
26 22 4 7.0

 

[visionary]

"The process might have been flawed but the results have been favorable...." is an indictment and is a good example of Jerry's way of thinking and part of the reason for our continued mediocrity

In successful systems a good process will bring good results whereas a flawed process will occ give good results but will fail a lot more

 

[Oh_Canada]

I still can't figure out what made people so excited about Floyd in the first place? To me Sheldon Richardson was the best tackle in the draft and it wasn't close. Star does look pretty good though and may end up being a better all-around player long term.

 

[dart]

At least we are talking about last year's draft (2013) and not yet talking about this years draft (2014) after 8 weeks.

they should be

 

[rags747]

I think Red wanted Eifert at 18, was he available or gone at 18? I think he was available but we traded down...correct me if I'm wrong here. At the end of the day I take Frederick and Williams over Floyd. Now usually the #5 rated guy I take but in this instance I did not see Floyd as a difference maker. I think we made out quite well whether by luck or by pure Jones draft prowess.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I prefer the odds of getting two players with one pick (wish they had done this instead of trading up for Claiborne and possibly gotten an additional pick/player in the process).

Given the history of the Claiborne trade and Fredbeard/TWill trade, it wouldn't surprise me if we move down and add another 3rd round pick next year.