Are we over thinking guard?

[CowboyoWales]

Most of us on the board don’t believe the Cowboys should just draft a guard at 24. The Cowboys should do what has made them successful in the last two drafts. We all remember the last time we reached for a need in the first round and his name is Taco.

....drafting Johnson or Green at 24 isnt a reach. It you look at our 30 visits as a guide to the draft strategy, it's one of them or EZEUDU (3/4th)- doesnt overpower and is developmental.

 

[morasp]

If this was last year I'd agree but picking where we are is a little different. Martin was one of the better picks we've had in round one 1 and given the chance they'll probably look to repeat that.

 

[tm1119]

A good shot isnt good enough, we need it and need it now....when your offense cant perform due to: an inability to create a running game: inability to block and an inability to give your QB the time that he needs, the non-premium becomes a priority.

Sorry, i'd be more inclined to go 0-Line with 2 of the first three picks.

Its just not how good teams are built. You have to go into a draft flexible to take the best guy available. Forcing a pick because the front office is too inept to sign a free agent is a good example of why this franchise hasn’t gotten to a conference championship in close to 3 decades

 

[sdfidaho]

1) They’ve paid their QB top dollar.
2) They’ve removed/lost 2 of their 3 (arguably) top WR’s.
3) If they don’t find a plug and play OL in the 1st to fill their most glaring need to help protect their QB, then why did they do #1?

I’m not a fan of forcing a pick because of need, but I think they’ve painted themselves into a corner here

 

[quickccc]

When was the last time we drafted a good OL outside round 3? Doug Free?

Makes since Free was a developmental type from a small school.
And that was before McClay's time as draft director.

McClay is not likely to get a small college prospect in the early or mid rounds.
He wants a bigger impact, bigger level of competition, and more NFL readiness with the early to mid round picks.

i would think a small school prospect would have to be Larry Allen super exceptional for McClay to draft differently.
Developmental project QB Ben Dinucci (in the 6th or 7th round?) may have been the last small school draftee by McClay.

Probably a better question is when was the last time we had success drafting an OG outside Zack Martin.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Its just not how good teams are built. You have to go into a draft flexible to take the best guy available. Forcing a pick because the front office is too inept to sign a free agent is a good example of why this franchise hasn’t gotten to a conference championship in close to 3 decades

it's not forcing a pick, Green and Johnson are both expected to go early 20's. It's exactly what we need.
I would say drafting the 5-7 best player at their position is hardly improving especially as our opposition are drafting the better prospects.
This team needs to improve its main weaknesses- O and D Line.

 

[baltcowboy]

....drafting Johnson or Green at 24 isnt a reach. It you look at our 30 visits as a guide to the draft strategy, it's one of them or EZEUDU (3/4th)- doesnt overpower and is developmental.

I am backing down on Green and Johnson not being good picks after hearing that he is as good as a prospect as Martin was in 2014. Also the Cowboys might be looking at Green as a center. I just would draft Lloyd/Karl or one of the top 5 receivers over the guards.

 

[chicago JK]

I think so. Obviously having Zach Martin should show us the value of a guard, but I am more concerned with our tackles and center. I am sure you can find stop gap centers who are solid players and be just fine. That is not to say I would pass on a generational guard but I would probably prefer to look at another position at 24.

 

[Sydla]

Taco was not reaching for a need. He was BPA.

I don't think that's accurate. I seem to recall at the time we had a couple of other players rated higher, including a CB, but they made the determination that the draft was deeper at defensive back than DE, so they took the DE thinking they would then come back with a defensive back.

 

[Sydla]

I do not think we are overthinking OG. Shoot, I have advocated before that it's bizarre how we have to use so many #1 picks to get a good OL when other teams are building great OLs with less of an investment.

That being said, when you look at the draft, our needs, where we are picking, OL just makes a lot of sense. There should be a couple of good options available at 24. The other option at 24 could be WR but honestly, it's hard to justify a team using three first round picks in four years on WRs. What do you have to show for that kind of investment? Zero.

Personally, I would love to see a nice DE or DT at 24. But it doesn't appear one will be there and it seems 24 is the sweet spot in this draft for quite a few of the interior OL options - Green, Linderbaum, Johnson.

 

[quickccc]

Martin could play OLT, I have no doubt, and he'd be decent there.

Larry Allen was a pro bowl OLT one season.

I think Allen would've been an a very solid OT, maybe an eventual pro bowl OT, but he was also the type that would have to eventually moved inside as he got older
and more condition reluctant.
Of course, moved and starting inside early in his career, he became the most dominant OG in NFL history, ..imo.

- Zack may have had the athleticism to "play' at OT, ..but would he have been dominant as he was at OG ?
I can say the same with both of these guys.

- And underline this, ..it really pays to have the coaches that best see and position players where they can best excel.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I am backing down on Green and Johnson not being good picks after hearing that he is as good as a prospect as Martin was in 2014. Also the Cowboys might be looking at Green as a center. I just would draft Lloyd/Karl or one of the top 5 receivers over the guards.

Not as good as the best Guard in football. Lol. I've not heard anything that we want Green as a Centre, isn't that the one O-Line position he hasn't played.
No point having one of those top 5 WR's (none of which would be our WR1), if teams sit in coverage as we haven't a running game and defences can rush our O-Line with 4.
Then again some fans can't see beyond WR's and Pash Rushers.

 

[quickccc]

I don't think that's accurate. I seem to recall at the time we had a couple of other players rated higher, including a CB, but they made the determination that the draft was deeper at defensive back than DE, so they took the DE thinking they would then come back with a defensive back.

Supposedly CB Kevin King (per Fish) ... is he still with the Packers ?

Yeh, i tend to recall that draft thinking of McClay. Cowboys were so worried about not having a suitable DE in the 2nd round.- along with the attempt to please Marinelli,
that led to the infamous Taco pick over Watt.

Rest is history

 

[baltcowboy]

Not as good as the best Guard in football. Lol. I've not heard anything that we want Green as a Centre, isn't that the one O-Line position he hasn't played.
No point having one of those top 5 WR's (none of which would be our WR1), if teams sit in coverage as we haven't a running game and defences can rush our O-Line with 4.
Then again some fans can't see beyond WR's and Pash Rushers.

Sorry mixed Green and Zion up. Zion is the center. Green has pro bowl guard potential and had similar grades as Martin when he came out. It’s just a projection as nobody thought Martin would be a Hall of Fame guard.

 

[quickccc]

I do not think we are overthinking OG. Shoot, I have advocated before that it's bizarre how we have to use so many #1 picks to get a good OL when other teams are building great OLs with less of an investment.

That being said, when you look at the draft, our needs, where we are picking, OL just makes a lot of sense. There should be a couple of good options available at 24. The other option at 24 could be WR but honestly, it's hard to justify a team using three first round picks in four years on WRs. What do you have to show for that kind of investment? Zero.

Personally, I would love to see a nice DE or DT at 24. But it doesn't appear one will be there and it seems 24 is the sweet spot in this draft for quite a few of the interior OL options - Green, Linderbaum, Johnson.

I could see the concern of over-thinking " reaching" for an OG, ..just because of the sake of needing one so badly.
This is where i am counting so very much on Wil McClay,.. and we need him to be the CeeDee Lamb over K'Lavon Chaisson ... instead of Taco over Watts.

- If the Cowboys do not have an OG prospect that is in their Group A ... then do not force that pick for the sake of need.
They are likely gonna have an OG prospect on their draft board, that is in their Group B and a chance to be available in the 2nd round.
OGs tend to fall like that.

- Frankly i do not want to chance picking OG at the bottom of the 3rd round. That's where i think quality level is gonna fall off.

- I tend to be with those that are saying Do not be surprised if we actually draft an OT, who the Cowboys envision starting out as an interior OG, and eventually moving outside to OT
- per heir apparent to Tyron Smith.

- Nothing wrong with two regarded prospects competing for the eventual LT role.(ala Josh Ball) ..at the least we'd still have that OT turn OG still starting.
And hopeful successful one.

 

[Sydla]

I could see the concern of over-thinking " reaching" for an OG, ..just because of the sake of needing one so badly.
This is where i am counting so very much on Wil McClay,.. and we need him to be the CeeDee Lamb over K'Lavon Chaisson ... instead of Taco over Watts.

- If the Cowboys do not have an OG prospect that is in their Group A ... then do not force that pick for the sake of need.
They are likely gonna have an OG prospect on their draft board, that is in their Group B and a chance to be available in the 2nd round.
OGs tend to fall like that.

- Frankly i do not want to chance picking OG at the bottom of the 3rd round. That's where i think quality level is gonna fall off.

- I tend to be with those that are saying Do not be surprised if we actually draft an OT, who the Cowboys envision starting out as an interior OG, and eventually moving outside to OT
- per heir apparent to Tyron Smith.

- Nothing wrong with two regarded prospects competing for the eventual LT role.(ala Josh Ball) ..at the least we'd still have that OT turn OG still starting.
And hopeful successful one.

I tend to agree. If there isn't an OL at 24 graded on their board in that range, don't force the pick. But based on what we have seen from the various pundits and analysts and experts, that 20-27 range could have 3-4 OL available that are properly ranked there. So I don't see a scenario where they are picking at 24 and they don't have a good option along the OL.

Certainly, if someone falls like say a Jermaine Johnson or a Kyle Hamilton, you pounce on that. But if you have OL and WRs, for example, all rated in that 24 range, I think you have to go OL there. It's a bigger issue than WR IMO.

 

[quickccc]

I tend to agree. If there isn't an OL at 24 graded on their board in that range, don't force the pick. But based on what we have seen from the various pundits and analysts and experts, that 20-27 range could have 3-4 OL available that are properly ranked there. So I don't see a scenario where they are picking at 24 and they don't have a good option along the OL.

Certainly, if someone falls like say a Jermaine Johnson or a Kyle Hamilton, you pounce on that. But if you have OL and WRs, for example, all rated in that 24 range, I think you have to go OL there. It's a bigger issue than WR IMO.

i dunno where the Cowboys will be swirling with this.

I've Jerry talk about " Flex" so that got me thinking with an OT that could convert to OG.. which overall i'm not fond of , instead of going with the pure OG that has exceled at that position at
the college level thus draft grade as such.

 

[BourbonBalz]

There are 2 high level plug and play guards, Johnson and Green. If you want one then use 24. If you are OK drafting a guard that may need a year or 2 in an NFL strength training program, or may be as good as Connor Williams was, then don’t use 24 on a guard.

Kinnard is more than able from a strength standpoint. He’s a mauler.