Backshoulder throws

[The Natural]

Obviously he doesn't dictate the plays we run, but because it's his receivers that have to run the patterns and catch the throws I'm sure he has some input.

You say the receivers have to run the patterns as if its a complex route. Its a pretty simple concept, and the QB can either deliver that throw or he cant. Sanjabi's take is irrelevant, his job is technique.

 

[blumayne38]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

Do you really prepare to throw a back shoulder throw, isn’t that something that is decided by the QB in the moment of releasing the ball. I’m going back shoulder be ready doesn’t happen. For example doing a remodel on a home is always difficult because of circumstances that occur that change the process in which you complete the remodel. Sometimes the plan changes 3-4 times during the process. Same with a playcall the back shoulder isn’t something you want to always do if a QB has it in the Repertoire that’s nice but you genuinely want the QB to deliver the ball in stride or on point...my opinion

 

[OmerV]

You say the receivers have to run the patterns as if its a complex route. Its a pretty simple concept, and the QB can either deliver that throw or he cant. Sanjabi's take is irrelevant, his job is technique.

Turning and adjusting to a ball is not always easy, and there is no given exactly where the ball will be placed, how much a receiver has to turn and/r or even come back to the ball. He probably thinks sharper routes and separation leads to higher completion rates. I don't know why an OC wouldn't want that kind of input. An OC going solo and ignoring the assistant coaches is not the way to put out the best product, just as a corporate Vice President ignoring the input of the managers under him would not be the best way to achieve success.

 

[OmerV]

Do you really prepare to throw a back shoulder throw, isn’t that something that is decided by the QB in the moment of releasing the ball. I’m going back shoulder be ready doesn’t happen. For example doing a remodel on a home is always difficult because of circumstances that occur that change the process in which you complete the remodel. Sometimes the plan changes 3-4 times during the process. Same with a playcall the back shoulder isn’t something you want to always do if a QB has it in the Repertoire that’s nice but you genuinely want the QB to deliver the ball in stride or on point...my opinion

Back shoulder throws are often preplanned. A receiver streaking down the sidelines would have no chance to make the play otherwise - his momentum would take him out of the play.

 

[blumayne38]

Back shoulder throws are often preplanned. A receiver streaking down the sidelines would have no chance to make the play otherwise - his momentum would take him out of the play.

That’s assuming you have a WR that can do that honestly....

 

[blumayne38]

Back shoulder throws are often preplanned. A receiver streaking down the sidelines would have no chance to make the play otherwise - his momentum would take him out of the play.

My point is QB throw to spots and during that process decide is the back shoulder is appropriate for the situation. I mean I agree with what you’re saying but how many times a game can you really do that? Unless you have AB or D hopkins OBJ a WR elite like that

 

[McKDaddy]

I'm not sure i go into a play thinking back shoulder fade but how much chemistry does it take for both the QB & Receiver to see the defender is deeper than the receiver? Seems like a pretty simple read for both parties. Since time is generally running out for QB, seems like the only option to salvage the play. And generally a pretty safe one at that. Receivers job is to adjust & keep himself between defender & ball. Incomplete is better than interception trying to force a ball when defender is in better position than receiver.

 

[OmerV]

My point is QB throw to spots and during that process decide is the back shoulder is appropriate for the situation. I mean I agree with what you’re saying but how many times a game can you really do that? Unless you have AB or D hopkins OBJ a WR elite like that

Sure there are pass patterns where a QB judges from the positioning of the defense and the cover man where to place the ball, but that's not what people are talking about with "back shoulder throws". They are talking about called plays where a receiver sprints downfield in an effort to get the CB to turn and run with him, knowing that he is looking for a throw to the backside while the CB is running with the expectation of a deep downfield throw, thus his momentum takes him out of the play. It doesn't take an elite receiver to run that play, but it obviously does help if the CB thinks of the receiver as a true downfield threat. It also takes very good timing and judgement on where to locate the ball - the receiver and QB have to be in sync.

 

[Dallasfann]

lol - i'll assume this was a tongue in cheek comment.

Haha a little bit. I should of put "one" of the reasons lol. What I'm trying to say is with Dak we will be able afford all of our wide receivers next year. With #9 we'd lose 2 or 3 of them to free agency next season due to not being able to afford them.

 

[Bluefin]

I know it came up during the off-season and WR coach Sanjay Lal isn't a big fan of back shoulder throws.

It has a place in the scheme, but he prefers to focus on precise route running in order to get open.

Cowboys WR Coach: We No Longer Live In Back-Shoulder World

Lal, who previously said he saw "inconsistencies" in Bryant's game last year, was asked if the receivers on the team can go down the field and go up and catch the ball.

“I would think so,” Lal said, via Hill, Jr. “I would rather have down-the-field guys that go run down a ball and score than live in the back-shoulder world. We want touchdowns. We have some of those.”

Lal is hopeful that life can be much easier on Prescott because he'll be throwing to receivers he's teaching to have better timing and route running.

“That is my job,” Lal told Hill Jr. “They will be where they are supposed to be and they will run detailed, nice-looking routes. We are going to turn the tape on and be proud of what we put on tape.”

 

[OmerV]

I'm not sure i go into a play thinking back shoulder fade but how much chemistry does it take for both the QB & Receiver to see the defender is deeper than the receiver? Seems like a pretty simple read for both parties. Since time is generally running out for QB, seems like the only option to salvage the play. And generally a pretty safe one at that. Receivers job is to adjust & keep himself between defender & ball. Incomplete is better than interception trying to force a ball when defender is in better position than receiver.

On deep throws the defender almost always starts out deeper than the receiver, and they can't abandon the deep throw because of it. If one decides to abandon the deep pattern and the other doesn't, it's a problem and results in no chance for a completion, and very possibly an INT. For the most part these are called as back shoulder throws, not downfield throws that get broken off.

 

[OmerV]

Haha a little bit. I should of put "one" of the reasons lol. What I'm trying to say is with Dak we will be able afford all of our wide receivers next year. With #9 we'd lose 2 or 3 of them to free agency next season due to not being able to afford them.

I don't disagree that Romo was a better passes, but we never lost 2-3 receivers with # 9 before.

 

[T-RO]

Back shoulder throws are often preplanned. A receiver streaking down the sidelines would have no chance to make the play otherwise - his momentum would take him out of the play.

Sometimes. And sometimes they are mid-play options depending on d-scheme and leverage.

 

[blumayne38]

Sure there are pass patterns where a QB judges from the positioning of the defense and the cover man where to place the ball, but that's not what people are talking about with "back shoulder throws". They are talking about called plays where a receiver sprints downfield in an effort to get the CB to turn and run with him, knowing that he is looking for a throw to the backside while the CB is running with the expectation of a deep downfield throw, thus his momentum takes him out of the play. It doesn't take an elite receiver to run that play, but it obviously does help if the CB thinks of the receiver as a true downfield threat. It also takes very good timing and judgement on where to locate the ball - the receiver and QB have to be in sync.

Hen the obvious answer would be then Dak just isn’t very good at anticipating that kind of throw why else would you not throw it. Or we don’t have the WRs to do it. I mean Carolina played cover 1 primarily, we should have seen 2-3 of those throws in the first half

 

[charron]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

Dak can not make that throw.

 

[G2]

Dak can not make that throw.

False.

 

[DCreppinBoysfan]

We never should’ve cut Chaz Green.

Yeah we should’ve traded him to the Eagles.

 

[DCreppinBoysfan]

We have no way of knowing how many are in the scheme itself. Dak has four, five possible targets on any pass play. And back shoulder passes are often just on-the-fly adjustments by QB/Receiver to the defense.

Back-shoulder passes are usually downfield throws and we’ve not yet had a lot of those.

They’re usually goal line throws when Romo was running things

 

[McKDaddy]

On deep throws the defender almost always starts out deeper than the receiver, and they can't abandon the deep throw because of it. If one decides to abandon the deep pattern and the other doesn't, it's a problem and results in no chance for a completion, and very possibly an INT. For the most part these are called as back shoulder throws, not downfield throws that get broken off.

agree that they have to be on the same page or bad things are gonna happen. just saying when i watch some teams around the league, most notably GB, i was convinced it was an in route adjustment based on coverage. Sure it can be a designed or called play but I did not get the impression that most teams ran it that way.

Either way, i do think we need to at least have them in our tool bag. Got to make defense think you are capable of anything.

 

[jterrell]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

Dak hit two guys in stride 35 yards down the field Sunday night.
You don't need to back shoulder throw a guy if he is fast enough to get open up top and we are collecting speed art WR now
Those deep throws were what was practiced all camp and we were told to expect.

Back shoulder fades are likely not a thing in this offense.