Backshoulder throws

[OmerV]

Hen the obvious answer would be then Dak just isn’t very good at anticipating that kind of throw why else would you not throw it. Or we don’t have the WRs to do it. I mean Carolina played cover 1 primarily, we should have seen 2-3 of those throws in the first half

I think there are several things to consider, the first of which is we are only 2 games into the season, so we really don't know what the pattern is going to be. Second, as someone suggested in another post, the NFL goes through new innovations, such as the back shoulder throw, which can be very effective for awhile, then teams and players adjust to it, and the league moves on to the next thing. There may be some of that coming into play. But on top of that, there is a real timing element that goes with the play, and it can be hit or miss. Like the new receivers coach has indicated, he prefers the idea of running crisper, cleaner routes where the QB can count on exactly where the receiver will be rather than throw behind receivers and count on them being able to turn just right to make it work.

 

[Bleu Star]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

Look for this particular throw to re-emerge now that Brice is back. Familiarity breeds success. They connected in several fashions last year.

 

[OmerV]

agree that they have to be on the same page or bad things are gonna happen. just saying when i watch some teams around the league, most notably GB, i was convinced it was an in route adjustment based on coverage. Sure it can be a designed or called play but I did not get the impression that most teams ran it that way.

Either way, i do think we need to at least have them in our tool bag. Got to make defense think you are capable of anything.

I agree there are reads, but I think in general those reads are a response to the coverage the QB and receiver see at the line of scrimmage rather than starting to run a deep streak downfield and changing midstream depending on how well the CB covers it. In other words, even though the back shoulder throw may not be the original play call, the QB and receiver get on the same page before the ball is snapped, maybe through an audible by the QB, or a predetermined plan on how they will adjust to different coverages.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I know it came up during the off-season and WR coach Sanjay Lal isn't a big fan of back shoulder throws.

It has a place in the scheme, but he prefers to focus on precise route running in order to get open.

I like routes that hit receivers on the move with a chance for more.

 

[blumayne38]

I think there are several things to consider, the first of which is we are only 2 games into the season, so we really don't know what the pattern is going to be. Second, as someone suggested in another post, the NFL goes through new innovations, such as the back shoulder throw, which can be very effective for awhile, then teams and players adjust to it, and the league moves on to the next thing. There may be some of that coming into play. But on top of that, there is a real timing element that goes with the play, and it can be hit or miss. Like the new receivers coach has indicated, he prefers the idea of running crisper, cleaner routes where the QB can count on exactly where the receiver will be rather than throw behind receivers and count on them being able to turn just right to make it work.

But this hasn’t been just the last 2 games Dak has been very suspect going all the way back to last year. Aside from the ball to tayvon 8 qtrs of football and only 1 Passing TD to show for it going back to last year I can count the number of TDS Dak has thrown using 1 hand

 

[OmerV]

But this hasn’t been just the last 2 games Dak has been very suspect going all the way back to last year. Aside from the ball to tayvon 8 qtrs of football and only 1 Passing TD to show for it going back to last year I can count the number of TDS Dak has thrown using 1 hand

The lack of TD passes doesn't necessarily have anything to do with back shoulder throws, and in fact we tried a lot of those with in the end zone with Dez last year.

 

[Bluefin]

I like routes that hit receivers on the move with a chance for more.

Definitely!

Tavon Austin, Deonte Thompson, Cole Beasley and Ezekiel Elliott are all good options for RAC yards.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

It's chemistry, it's Dak, it's also the WRs.

Aside from Hurns, who hasn't been doing much generally, I don't think that most of the WRs are good fits. I'd want size and hands. Williams doesn't have the hands, other guys don't have much size.

 

[buybuydandavis]

The lack of TD passes doesn't necessarily have anything to do with back shoulder throws, and in fact we tried a lot of those with in the end zone with Dez last year.

Our QB nor our WRs make those back shoulder jump balls in the red zone a poor option. It's a two man game that negates our strengths and plays to our weaknesses.

We should be read option with a pass option as well. Throwing should be the 3rd option on the play, not the first and only.

 

[OmerV]

Our QB nor our WRs make those back shoulder jump balls in the red zone a poor option. It's a two man game that negates our strengths and plays to our weaknesses.

We should be read option with a pass option as well. Throwing should be the 3rd option on the play, not the first and only.

I was really thinking more of the ones where Dez would start to the corner of the endzone and Dak would throw behind him rather than the fades to the corner. In any case, while I recognize they can be effective at times, I hate both those plays. Especially the corner fade. It seems to me more is working against the receiver than for him.

 

[Verdict]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

They are over rated. We only threw those to Dez because it was harder for him to mess those up.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I was really thinking more of the ones where Dez would start to the corner of the endzone and Dak would throw behind him rather than the fades to the corner. In any case, while I recognize they can be effective at times, I hate both those plays. Especially the corner fade. It seems to me more is working against the receiver than for him.

It relies on the WR and QB just being good enough to execute a tough play. With Tony and Dez at his best, it was a percentage play. We don't have the personnel to make that a percentage play now, particularly relative to just giving the ball to Zeke.

 

[charron]

False.

Try watching him throw and you'll understand.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

Those take time.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Where are they?

With all of the cover 1 & 3 defenses we see I would think it would be a staple in the offense.

Do they not trust Dak to make that throw?

Is there just not enough chemistry with the WR's on the roster?

If there were back shoulder throws Dez would still be here

 

[G2]

Try watching him throw and you'll understand.

No, you said he can't make the back shoulder fade. That is not true.

 

[charron]

No, you said he can't make the back shoulder fade. That is not true.

He can't. He is terrible at ball placement...

 

[exciter]

They wanted to run Dez out, something he was great at. But I don't know if it's Dak's strength

They used it in 2016 and Dak and Dez built some decent chemistry towards the end of the season, torched the lions with it. Then for whatever reason they stopped using it last year. Don't think it had anything to do with Dak!

 

[4lifecowboy]

I like routes that hit receivers on the move with a chance for more.

I like routes that gain chunks of yards and I like a QB that can recognize and have the confidence to make those down the feild throws in tight windows. My 14 year old could hit a receiver in stride that has broken coverage.

 

[T-RO]

Cowboys WR Coach: We No Longer Live In Back-Shoulder World

That’s not what Lal said. He said he didn’t want a reliance on that...to overdo it.