Barry Bonds Returns To Rookie Form

[Yeagermeister]

Bonds was a great player without using anything. Would he have the home run record? Almost certainly not but his ability to hit was never an issue.

He was the rookie of the year and had 20+ home runs many times. His 70+ was absolutely insane. He had over 2500 walks and batted 298 for his career. The guy was absolutely a machine. I watched him in college and he was a stud from before day 1.

I also DONT doubt he sucks as a person. But I've heard just as bad stuff about other legends like Mickey Mantle that gets disregarded or ignored.

Records are made to be broken. Cheats own many records or will in short order. C'est la vie. This new generation isn't getting to play against just white/black players but is facing the entire world's best and also has to actually work at it year round.

It didn't hurt that he wore armor on his elbow so he crowded the plate and wasn't afraid to get hit. He was a jerk from everything I read and saw but there is no denying the guy could play. He didn't need the juice. He just took a short cut.

 

[jterrell]

It didn't hurt that he wore armor on his elbow so he crowded the plate and wasn't afraid to get hit. He was a jerk from everything I read and saw but there is no denying the guy could play. He didn't need the juice. He just took a short cut.

I am sure if he were beign honest he'd say he took the shortcut other guys like mark mcgwire/jose canseco/manny/arod et al took.

The list of guys in the top 10 for homers from 90-2000 is littered with known steroid users.

But you are correct that Bonds may have been the only guy still on that list without using anything.

 

[joseephuss]

I am sure if he were beign honest he'd say he took the shortcut other guys like mark mcgwire/jose canseco/manny/arod et al took.

The list of guys in the top 10 for homers from 90-2000 is littered with known steroid users.

But you are correct that Bonds may have been the only guy still on that list without using anything.

I don't agree with that. He along with all those other guys wouldn't be that high up on the homerun list without steroids. Those other guys would still have good power without the roids, but not as good obviously with them. McGwire, Canseco, Manny and ARod were all power hitters who amped up their games with Roids. Bonds was not a power hitter before the roids. He was an all-around player, but he wasn't a true power hitter.

 

[jterrell]

I don't agree with that. He along with all those other guys wouldn't be that high up on the homerun list without steroids. Those other guys would still have good power without the roids, but not as good obviously with them. McGwire, Canseco, Manny and ARod were all power hitters who amped up their games with Roids. Bonds was not a power hitter before the roids. He was an all-around player, but he wasn't a true power hitter.

huh? bonds hit 20+ homers for 19 years. he was absolutely a great hitter that included hitting for power. he was 1st in home runs as far back as 1993. he was over 30 routinely before the insane steroid take off. he would've had 250-300 homers without any steroid use for the 90-2000 span.

guys like canseco wouldnt have been in baseball without roids. he was a .266 batter that had horrible defensive acumen. if he didn't hit 40 home runs he had zero value.

mcgwire and bonds had similar homer totals before and after roids. difference was barry never missed seasons with injuries. mcgwire did and steroids are a great recovery agent.

sosa was not a power player at all in texas; same as rafael palmiero. that "developed". he didn't have over 15 home runs until his 5th year in the league, 1993.

arod didnt have but 5 home runs entering 1995. He wouldn't have been on the list either way.

bonds was called the natural before people realized he roided up. he was josh hamilton before roids. surly, odd and crazy good.

 

[joseephuss]

Bonds played for 22 seasons. After his first 7 years in the league he topped 30 home runs twice with 34 being his best. Then all of a sudden he exploded. He hit enough home runs to end up averaging 34 home runs per season for his entire career. At one point 34 was his best and then 34 became his average. This is not normal. He became a power hitter when before he was a great hitter that hit for some power. There is a difference.

McGwire was a power hitter. After his first 7 years in the league he had topped 40 home runs twice and had accumulated 44 more home runs than Bonds during that same time period. They both debuted in 1986.

As you pointed out Canseco could not do anything except hit for power. He was a power hitter. During that same 7 year span, Canseco hit 54 more home runs than Bonds. Canseco also topped 40 home runs twice during that span.

I think the steroid use started before most think it started. For Bonds that use could have come as far back as 1993. That is when his home run explosion began. For Canseco and McGwire it could have started in the 1980s.

I didn't mention Palmeiro or Sosa, so I don't know why you used them as examples. It is obvious their power numbers are just a product of steroids.

Both Manny and ARod hit more home runs than Bonds did after their first 7 years. Both topped 40 home runs during that first 7 years, Manny doing it twice and Alex 3 times. Steroids definitely could be a factor, but the point is that they were showing true power hitting numbers during a good portion of their career.

Seven years is a significant amount of time. You pretty much show what you are and are not likely to change significantly form that. Bonds did.

Steroids played a big part in MLB history. I for one don't care that much about it, but it's obvious Bond's power output changed drastically. Perhaps he would still have good totals averaging 25 to 28 home runs a year. That is a far cry from averaging 34 home runs a year as he did or the 39 he averaged per year after the 1992 season. And without PEDs, he could have worn down sooner as well.

 

[YosemiteSam]

ding ding.

 

[jterrell]

Bonds played for 22 seasons. After his first 7 years in the league he topped 30 home runs twice with 34 being his best. Then all of a sudden he exploded. He hit enough home runs to end up averaging 34 home runs per season for his entire career. At one point 34 was his best and then 34 became his average. This is not normal. He became a power hitter when before he was a great hitter that hit for some power. There is a difference.

McGwire was a power hitter. After his first 7 years in the league he had topped 40 home runs twice and had accumulated 44 more home runs than Bonds during that same time period. They both debuted in 1986.

As you pointed out Canseco could not do anything except hit for power. He was a power hitter. During that same 7 year span, Canseco hit 54 more home runs than Bonds. Canseco also topped 40 home runs twice during that span.

I think the steroid use started before most think it started. For Bonds that use could have come as far back as 1993. That is when his home run explosion began. For Canseco and McGwire it could have started in the 1980s.

I didn't mention Palmeiro or Sosa, so I don't know why you used them as examples. It is obvious their power numbers are just a product of steroids.

Both Manny and ARod hit more home runs than Bonds did after their first 7 years. Both topped 40 home runs during that first 7 years, Manny doing it twice and Alex 3 times. Steroids definitely could be a factor, but the point is that they were showing true power hitting numbers during a good portion of their career.

Seven years is a significant amount of time. You pretty much show what you are and are not likely to change significantly form that. Bonds did.

Steroids played a big part in MLB history. I for one don't care that much about it, but it's obvious Bond's power output changed drastically. Perhaps he would still have good totals averaging 25 to 28 home runs a year. That is a far cry from averaging 34 home runs a year as he did or the 39 he averaged per year after the 1992 season. And without PEDs, he could have worn down sooner as well.

ROFL. If you are going to use averages use them for everyone. Dont give me one players high total than anothers average as it fits an argument. Pre-steroid era 25 home runs was a POWER HITTER.

Again, I stated he would have had 250-300 home runs in 90-2000. Divided by 11 that gets to the same total you suggest.

Bonds didn't need magic pills to play until 2000. 2007? Maybe so. But if roids gave him longevity it certainly did the same for others.

McGwire was a great home run hitter but he didnt hit for average and had health concerns. He played that decade and was close to Bonds for total home runs. A more pure power hitter but one who was less consistent.

Bonds homer total went up all of 35%. From mid 30's to mid 40s. Without that extra 35% he is still EASILY top 20 all-time.

McGwire's totals from 1990-1995:
90: 39
91: 22
92: 42
93: 9
94: 9
95: 39

If you divide that up it is 26.67.

Bonds:
1990: 33
91: 25
92: 34
93: 46
94: 37
95: 33

34.67 homers per year.