Barry Church Thread

Lonestar94 · Aug 14, 2013

Barry Church only has 3 starts under his belt and is coming off an injury but actually how good is this guy? I haven't read or heard much about him this training camp.. I feel like people are automatically proclaiming him a solid starter and possibly a Pro Bowler. How good has he been in camp? Should the SS position have any concerns?

CATCH17 · Aug 14, 2013

He's always looked pretty good when he's been out there so until I see him consistently play bad I gotta believe he'll at least be a solid player.

CowboyStar88 · Aug 14, 2013

All you need to know is that you aren't hearing anything because he is doing his job. If he was having a bad camp or does not know his assignments we would be hearing about it. I know some people are pointing to a couple of bad angles he took during the Raider preseason game as oh no he isn't that good. But I am inclined to believe that it was just over excitement to actually be back out on the field. He did make a nice stick at the line of scrimmage on the RB after he settled down. I think that's the type of stuff you are going to see this season from him. He is a film junkie so I wouldn't be to worried. The guy has talent.

speedkilz88 · Aug 14, 2013

Will Allen has done nothing in this camp to make me think he should not be the starter when the squad lines up opening day against the Giants. I had my doubts during the OTA's and minicamps, but he has been steady in his play and, paired with Barry Church, has been the right fit there. In this camp, he has showed range not only to handle the ball to the deep outside, but as he was able to display on Tuesday, his ability to defend the ball in the air against a player the likes of Jason Witten. It speaks volumes of his worth. I have been impressed with the way he shows awareness in his play. It's rare that you see him fooled or out of position on the play. The way he manages the game deep will allow Church more of an opportunity to play down and help in the running game which in the end, is more of a comfortable position for Church. In the end, Allen will allow these young safeties to grow in their responsibilities and that is exactly what this club had in mind when they signed him.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/a...And-More/833a548c-9520-4efc-a411-79e62aa6a416

jday · Aug 14, 2013

Lonestar94 said:
Barry Church only has 3 starts under his belt and is coming off an injury but actually how good is this guy? I haven't read or heard much about him this training camp.. I feel like people are automatically proclaiming him a solid starter and possibly a Pro Bowler. How good has he been in camp? Should the SS position have any concerns?

The knock on Church is that he isn't very fast. But, he does have great football speed, instincts, heart, and passion for the game. I'm not sure if he will be a Pro Bowler (in fact, I highly doubt it), but I do expect he will be, at least, solid in his role.

CowboyStar88 · Aug 14, 2013

jday said:
The knock on Church is that he isn't very fast. But, he does have great football speed, instincts, heart, and passion for the game. I'm not sure if he will be a Pro Bowler (in fact, I highly doubt it), but I do expect he will be, at least, solid in his role.

We had some debates with other posters about his speed in the past. There still isn't any clear evidence that he is "slow" They did clock his forty time I believe at his pro day as a 4.4 or 4.5 I'm to lazy to go look it up. But I agree he has great football speed and agility and instincts. I said when he was a Rookie that he looked a bit and played a bit like Woody

Denim Chicken · Aug 14, 2013

I think the combo of Allen and Church will be stout in run support and decent in coverage, but would like to see someone with better ball skills (maybe Wilcox) eventually be inserted over Allen in hopes of forcing turnovers.

Deep_Freeze · Aug 14, 2013

Denim Chicken said:
I think the combo of Allen and Church will be stout in run support and decent in coverage, but would like to see someone with better ball skills (maybe Wilcox) eventually be inserted over Allen in hopes of forcing turnovers.

Yeah biggest problem is the turnover issue, just have to wonder what Allen can bring to the table to actually make plays since he hasn't had an INT in 8 years. JJ could help there, but there would be the issue of who would play the FS role more.

Basically both JJ and Church are very similar in their games (with JJ having more upside), and probably would play the same role in the D unless we force Church into the other role. Would this work out....who knows but I do see JJ as more of Church's replacement than Allen's replacement as of right now cause the coverage deep with Church would be lacking in a JJ/Church combo.

Denim Chicken · Aug 14, 2013

Deep_Freeze said:
Yeah biggest problem is the turnover issue, just have to wonder what Allen can bring to the table to actually make plays since he hasn't had an INT in 8 years. JJ could help there, but there would be the issue of who would play the FS role more.

Basically both JJ and Church are very similar in their games (with JJ having more upside), and probably would play the same role in the D unless we force Church into the other role. Would this work out....who knows but I do see JJ as more of Church's replacement than Allen's replacement as of right now cause the coverage deep with Church would be lacking in a JJ/Church combo.

Agree. I don't think we have a real FS type on our roster behind Allen.

superpunk · Aug 14, 2013

When the ball is in the air, Church is on his way there. Or he's there already. That's all you need to know. He's smart, stays in position, breaks on balls well and isn't afraid to tackle. At worst he's gonna be a solid starter for us for a few seasons.

Future · Aug 14, 2013

Denim Chicken said:
Agree. I don't think we have a real FS type on our roster behind Allen.

Wilcox might be a SS on the depth chart, but he is the kind of guy who is going to cause turnovers.

Deep_Freeze · Aug 14, 2013

Denim Chicken said:
Agree. I don't think we have a real FS type on our roster behind Allen.

The closest thing we have is Matt, but he is made of glass of course. A Matt/JJ combo has alot more potential for the future, but the problem is how long will it actually take for them to win the jobs. In JJ's case he just doesn't have the experience yet and in Matt's case he needs to be put in some chamber til then.

Safety is still a huge concern for this team, especially who can play the FS role long term. Allen is a decent JAG, but we do need some real talent back there with pedigree which we don't even come close to having.

speedkilz88 · Aug 14, 2013

CowboyStar88 said:
We had some debates with other posters about his speed in the past. There still isn't any clear evidence that he is "slow" They did clock his forty time I believe at his pro day as a 4.4 or 4.5 I'm to lazy to go look it up. But I agree he has great football speed and agility and instincts. I said when he was a Rookie that he looked a bit and played a bit like Woody

Not much debate he ran a 4.69 at the combine. I have Kiper's 2010 Draft Report.

Deep_Freeze · Aug 14, 2013

speedkilz88 said:
Not much debate he ran a 4.69 at the combine. I have Kiper's 2010 Draft Report.

Yeah, the 'debate' has always been interesting to me when there never really was one. He has good instincts, but he is in fact very slow for a safety. There is a reason we used him as a LB in the nickel....moving him back to SS is pushing it yet there are thoughts of moving him to deep coverage with JJ. Just makes me puke in my mouth a lil.

How it is easier to see we need more talent at other positions, but don't see it for safety is beyond me. Get a true deep safety on this team and we can finally be able to defend the pass.....something we haven't been able to do in years and years.

CowboyStar88 · Aug 14, 2013

speedkilz88 said:
Not much debate he ran a 4.69 at the combine. I have Kiper's 2010 Draft Report.

There was a debate about it because Church himself stated he ran a 4.4 I can't remember if it was at the pro day or not.

CowboyStar88 · Aug 14, 2013

Deep_Freeze said:
Yeah, the 'debate' has always been interesting to me when there never really was one. He has good instincts, but he is in fact very slow for a safety. There is a reason we used him as a LB in the nickel....moving him back to SS is pushing it yet there are thoughts of moving him to deep coverage with JJ. Just makes me puke in my mouth a lil.

How it is easier to see we need more talent at other positions, but don't see it for safety is beyond me. Get a true deep safety on this team and we can finally be able to defend the pass.....something we haven't been able to do in years and years.

Not much of a debate? Church himself said he ran a 4.4 we have no idea if he was injured or pulled up a bit when he ran at the combine. We haven't heard anything about how fast he has run since the combine

CowboyStar88 · Aug 14, 2013

Deep_Freeze said:
Yeah, the 'debate' has always been interesting to me when there never really was one. He has good instincts, but he is in fact very slow for a safety. There is a reason we used him as a LB in the nickel....moving him back to SS is pushing it yet there are thoughts of moving him to deep coverage with JJ. Just makes me puke in my mouth a lil.

How it is easier to see we need more talent at other positions, but don't see it for safety is beyond me. Get a true deep safety on this team and we can finally be able to defend the pass.....something we haven't been able to do in years and years.

Also he was used as a nickel LB to take advantage of his size and speed. Do you forget who was playing LB when we used him in the Nickel? Which is something he also did in college. Hey there was a guy named Woodson that was a converted LB. it just might be the guy has true talent and being at safety is where he belongs and needed a season to get some time under his belt.

SilverStarCowboy · Aug 14, 2013

They've come a long way with Achilles Surgery since the Kevin Smith or even the Greg Ellis Days. Problem is that players like Church and SanFrans' Crabtree weren't that fast to begin with.

I think it is still a set back..everyone knew Dallas was extremely weak at Safety and Oline going into the Draft...one pick of each, that fact hasn't changed very much.

Going into a Season banking on Rookies and Injured guys to start is pretty ridiculous, especially for an NFL GM with 25 years of experience.

Deep_Freeze · Aug 14, 2013

CowboyStar88 said:
Not much of a debate? Church himself said he ran a 4.4 we have no idea if he was injured or pulled up a bit when he ran at the combine. We haven't heard anything about how fast he has run since the combine

Just because a player says it doesn't make it true. Safeties who run a 4.69 go undrafted, like Church did.

Deep_Freeze · Aug 14, 2013

CowboyStar88 said:
Also he was used as a nickel LB to take advantage of his size and speed. Do you forget who was playing LB when we used him in the Nickel? Which is something he also did in college. Hey there was a guy named Woodson that was a converted LB. it just might be the guy has true talent and being at safety is where he belongs and needed a season to get some time under his belt.

No need to include Woodson, who actually did run a 4.4 and was drafted in the 2nd round. We can't just try to say every safety we have on the roster is the next Woodson.....do we have the next Larry Allen on this roster.....I think not and the same goes for safety.

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