Benching Malcolm Butler was a mistake

[atlantacowboy]

The hero of the Pats win 3 years ago was told he would only play special teams just minutes before the game. In his place stepped Eric Rowe who was given the task of covering Alshon Jeffrey. WHOOPS! Nice to see even the great coaches make arrogant mistakes on occasion. Jeffrey dominated Rowe early, and the Patriots where forced to put Gilmore on him............which worked but not until Jeffrey already did his damage.

Just a small slice of what went wrong for NE last night.

 

[Stryker44]

Belichick doesn't make mistakes. Ever. Butler must have done something to dishonor New England.

 

[atlantacowboy]

Belichick doesn't make mistakes. Ever. Butler must have done something to dishonor New England.

His defense gave up 600 yards and 41 points in a super bowl. I'd say he made a lot of mistakes.

 

[nightrain]

Butler did not make the team flight to Minneapolis. Whether his excuse was legit or not, it did not sit well with the coaching staff. Give Belichick credit for sticking to his team first policy (unlike his LT days). No telling whether Butler would have made a difference. The two defenses were awful last night and I don't think Butler would have made a difference.

 

[lukin2006]

Maybe, just maybe Belichick arrogance finally caught up with him...

Big deal he missed the team flight...

As long as he gets to Minneapolis at his expense should have been good enough...

Fine him, why punish the entire organization for a mistake...

 

[nightrain]

Maybe, just maybe Belichick arrogance finally caught up with him...

Big deal he missed the team flight...

As long as he gets to Minneapolis at his expense should have been good enough...

Fine him, why punish the entire organization for a mistake...

Let all the players do what they want. Why even have a team flight? Just get there and then we will figure it out. Brilliant!

 

[atlantacowboy]

Butler did not make the team flight to Minneapolis. Whether his excuse was legit or not, it did not sit well with the coaching staff. Give Belichick credit for sticking to his team first policy (unlike his LT days). No telling whether Butler would have made a difference. The two defenses were awful last night and I don't think Butler would have made a difference.

Butler played over 95% of the defensive snaps this season, and he has a history of coming up big in big games. He claims he was sick and in the hospital when he missed the flight. So, i'd say it was a harsh punishment and one that clearly hurt the team. The Pats would have had Butler on Alshon Jeffrey instead of Eric Rowe.

Though the defenses were awful, it was a defensive play that sealed the win for philly. NE sure could have used a defensive playmaker last night. Philly's defensive is what got them to the game and Brady's performance against it just proves how powerless defenses are against him.

 

[nightrain]

Butler played over 95% of the defensive snaps this season, and he has a history of coming up big in big games. He claims he was sick and in the hospital when he missed the flight. So, i'd say it was a harsh punishment and one that clearly hurt the team. The Pats would have had Butler on Alshon Jeffrey instead of Eric Rowe.

Though the defenses were awful, it was a defensive play that sealed the win for philly. NE sure could have used a defensive playmaker last night.

So, knowing all that you know, you believe you are in a better position to make a decision on the situation than Belichick?

 

[atlantacowboy]

So, knowing all that you know, you believe you are in a better position to make a decision on the situation than Belichick?

Knowing what you know, you don't think its obvious? The entire Boston media is questioning Bill this morning, not just me. Even the great ones make mistakes, and he laid an egg last night.

 

[nightrain]

Knowing what you know, you don't think its obvious? The entire Boston media is questioning Bill this morning, not just me. Even the great ones make mistakes, and he laid an egg last night.

What's obvious about it? Please enlighten me with your insight on the situation. The Boston media is questioning Bill? Good Lord, Belichick is arguably the best coach in NFL history. the Boston media is spoiled with HIS successes. Until there is some clarity on what happened, I can't get too emotional about the situation.

 

[atlantacowboy]

What's obvious about it? Please enlighten me with your insight on the situation. The Boston media is questioning Bill? Good Lord, Belichick is arguably the best coach in NFL history. the Boston media is spoiled with HIS successes. Until there is some clarity on what happened, I can't get too emotional about the situation.

Well, you are defending Bill and attacking me for daring to criticize a move he made, and your only counter argument is to refer to his reputation. Got it.

I'd say you feel pretty strongly about it and dare I say "emotional".

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Whether Butler could have covered Jeffrey better is unknown, since he didn't cover him. He could have given up 3 tds to Jeffery if he'd played him.

I agree Butler probably could have covered him better, but unless you can replay the game with Butler in there, there's no way anyone can say it would have made a difference.

Losing Cooks "could have" changed the game outcome also, but again, there's no way to tell.

I just don't like the "would have, could have" statements, unless it's the last play of the game, with the failure of a player to make a td catch, or make a fg/extra point, or totally miss an easy td throw, etc. Like Murray's fumble a couple of years ago, many say that was the reason the Cowboys lost the game, but it was in the third quarter, way too much time left in the game, who knows what could have occurred in the time left?

If the Vikings receiver had fallen down in field of play in the NFC championship game, that's a play that determined the outcome of the game. Most of these types of discussions need to be noted as being pure supposition, not definitive "mistakes that blew the game"...

 

[atlantacowboy]

Whether Butler could have covered Jeffrey better is unknown, since he didn't cover him. He could have given up 3 tds to Jeffery if he'd played him.

I agree Butler probably could have covered him better, but unless you can replay the game with Butler in there, there's no way anyone can say it would have made a difference....

Oh my god, this is not a hard concept. The Patriots benched their season long starter and former super bowl hero in favor of a back-up they got off the scraps wire. It is not hard at all to imagine they left the better player on the bench. The Patriot realized they made a mistake. So its not even a question of IF they made a mistake. After Jeffrey torched Rowe a few times, they switched Gilmore on him and Jeffrey's night was over.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Oh my god, this is not a hard concept. The Patriots benched their season long starter and former super bowl hero in favor of a back-up they got off the scraps wire. It is not hard at all to imagine they left the better player on the bench. The Patriot realized they made a mistake. So its not even a question of IF they made a mistake. After Jeffrey torched Rowe a few times, they switched Gilmore on him and Jeffrey's night was over.

Again, you're saying that Butler would have no doubt been the better player on Jeffrey, but that's impossible to tell. Butler could also have pulled a hammy on his first coverage of Jeffrey and been out the rest of the game, he could have botched a coverage, he could have tried for and missed an interception, and on and on.

I'm just saying it's supposition, not fact. Very likely, but not a certainty.

 

[diefree666]

Again, you're saying that Butler would have no doubt been the better player on Jeffrey, but that's impossible to tell. Butler could also have pulled a hammy on his first coverage of Jeffrey and been out the rest of the game, he could have botched a coverage, he could have tried for and missed an interception, and on and on.

I'm just saying it's supposition, not fact. Very likely, but not a certainty.

if you want absolutes go to another universe

this is the same kind of reasoning Idgit and others have for keeping red ball

"WE MIGHT GET SOMEONE WORSE so do not even try"

The past history of Butler and his ability and then the clear evidence of Rowe not being able to get it done frankly makes your argument pathetic

 

[John813]

If Brady missed the team flight he still would of started. Along with Gronk.

I get setting a message, but to basically bench your starting corner for the entire game is something that will now be questioned all offseason now that they lost.

 

[Roadtrip635]

If he violated team rules, I understand not starting him, but the way their Def was getting torched, maybe at some point make a change. What they were doing was obviously not working and if Butler could have helped prevent even one of those 3rd or 4th down conversions, of may have ended differently. Even when Chung got injured, they still opted to play lesser talent over Butler.

Why punish the rest of the team at that point. Seems a classic "cutting off your nose to spite your face" decision. Of course, all the facts are not out yet, but seems very curious.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

"if you want absolutes go to another universe"

Didn't say I wanted absolutes, you're missing my point entirely.

Your "if Butler started he'd have done better" reminds one of the old quote "If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas"

Would Butler have done better? PROBABLY, LIKELY, 95% HE WOULD HAVE, etc. But a certainty?

No. In hindsight, yes it was a mistake, if that's your point, I agree. But hindsight is always 20-20.

In an alternate universe Butler started and shut down or greatly reduced Jeffrey's effectiveness, but we can't access alternative universes. All we KNOW is that Rowe didn't play well against Jeffrey, that's not a point of contention.

We're not going to agree on this discussion, but to call my view "pathetic" is uncalled for...

 

[LACowboysFan1]

If he violated team rules, I understand not starting him, but the way their Def was getting torched, maybe at some point make a change. What they were doing was obviously not working and if Butler could have helped prevent even one of those 3rd or 4th down conversions, of may have ended differently. Even when Chung got injured, they still opted to play lesser talent over Butler.

Why punish the rest of the team at that point. Seems a classic "cutting off your nose to spite your face" decision. Of course, all the facts are not out yet, but seems very curious.

Ah, that's the question, isn't it? We may find out more later. The punishment of not playing AT ALL except for special teams, for missing a team flight, does seem a bit overdone, maybe not starting for a series or a quarter, but the whole game? I wouldn't have done that....

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Also, if Butler had shut down Jeffrey, then the iggles would have gone to someone else, who MIGHT have done even better than Jeffrey.

But again, that's supposition, we could bring up other scenarios all day, not worth the time..