Best defensive move? Trade down

[gimmesix]

If the draft were to fall the way drafttek.com has the top prospects, I think it would be in Dallas' best interest to trade down.

The only top 10 defensive player available would be LB Micah Parsons. However, if we trade down between 15-20, there are several good possibilities: S Trevor Moehrig, DT Christian Barmore, LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah ... and if for some reason all of them are gone, DT Daviyon Nixon.

It would also give us some good ammo in the second round to go after a player like S Richie Grant if we didn't get Moehrig or maybe LB Zaven Collins with a trade-up or to possibly take two of DTs Jay Tufele and Alim McNeil, S Andre Cisco and CB Greg Newsome Jr.

https://www.drafttek.com/2021-NFL-Draft-Big-Board/Top-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2021-Page-1.asp

 

[Bowdown27]

I’m all on the parsons train but if there’s a trade that lands us another first I’m all for it.

 

[Cowboyny]

If the draft were to fall the way drafttek.com has the top prospects, I think it would be in Dallas' best interest to trade down.

The only top 10 defensive player available would be LB Micah Parsons. However, if we trade down between 15-20, there are several good possibilities: S Trevor Moehrig, DT Christian Barmore, LB Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah ... and if for some reason all of them are gone, DT Daviyon Nixon.

It would also give us some good ammo in the second round to go after a player like S Richie Grant if we didn't get Moehrig or maybe LB Zaven Collins with a trade-up or to possibly take two of DTs Jay Tufele and Alim McNeil, S Andre Cisco and CB Greg Newsome Jr.

https://www.drafttek.com/2021-NFL-Draft-Big-Board/Top-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2021-Page-1.asp

I've recently done several mock simulations lately, best way to legitimately fix this defense is to trade back, but not too far back and get an additional 2 in the process. Likes of Horn, Collins, Bolton, Barmore should all be in that range. Rd 2 is all about getting our safety and one pressure player.

 

[gimmesix]

I've recently done several mock simulations lately, best way to legitimately fix this defense is to trade back, but not too far back and get an additional 2 in the process. Likes of Horn, Collins, Bolton, Barmore should all be in that range. Rd 2 is all about getting our safety and one pressure player.

I'm for a second defensive tackle rather than the pressure player.

Ideally for me, we'd land Barmore/Nixon, Grant and McNeil. There are some other names I could live with, but those would be my pick if we could trade down some and end up with another second.

 

[Cowboyny]

I'm for a second defensive tackle rather than the pressure player.

Ideally for me, we'd land Barmore/Nixon, Grant and McNeil. There are some other names I could live with, but those would be my pick if we could trade down some and end up with another second.

Barmore certainly can be in consideration in a trade down in rd 1. In my opinion, more of a 3T, but also could play that 4T DE, don't see him fitting as our NT.

I think in rd2 if we got the extra selection, one would be earmarked for either Moehrig/Grant if available and either a Edge or a DT3. Don't see the team drafting a two down NT this high like McNeil, where he and the other two could all be available in rd 3: Shelvin/Wilson. Now if they took Barmore already, I would put corner on the list.

Who would fit that Edge, DT3: Phillips, Basham, Onwu, Nixon (think many are overrating him as a 1st rd prospect), Tuefele. Something to also consider, team has two young prospects at the 3 that they do like, but who is behind Tank/Gregory? It wouldn't surprise me if they went in that direction.

 

[AKATheRake]

There's going to be 3 maybe 4 QB's taken in the top 10 this year.

Sewell the OT is going to get taken also. That's 4 to 5 players taken before we pick and Parsons is the only player worth the top 10 pick at that point?

Lamaar Chase is going to go in the top 10 also, so that's 5 or 6 players and 6 or 7 gone if Parson is taken before our pick.

So there's not 3 to 4 players worthy of the top 10 pick at their respective positions available?

Only way I trade down is 2 or 3 spots and pick up an extra 2nd because some team is steaming for a QB or whatever we're not wanting with our pick. Only so often do you get to add a top 10 pick to your roster on a rookie deal.

Especially when you believe you're going to do a deal with your QB.

 

[Ring6]

I'd trade down and try for Barmore. I'd even consider him if no tradedown partner happens.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I don’t believe Surtain and Farley will both be gone. Too many offensive players will be taken in the first round (QBs, WRs, and at least one OT). I’ll be surprised if at least one of the two aren’t there.

 

[cowboyblue22]

There's going to be 3 maybe 4 QB's taken in the top 10 this year.

Sewell the OT is going to get taken also. That's 4 to 5 players taken before we pick and Parsons is the only player worth the top 10 pick at that point?

Lamaar Chase is going to go in the top 10 also, so that's 5 or 6 players and 6 or 7 gone if Parson is taken before our pick.

So there's not 3 to 4 players worthy of the top 10 pick at their respective positions available?

Only way I trade down is 2 or 3 spots and pick up an extra 2nd because some team is steaming for a QB or whatever we're not wanting with our pick. Only so often do you get to add a top 10 pick to your roster on a rookie deal.

Especially when you believe you're going to do a deal with your QB.

i think the wide receiver from alabama will also go in the top ten

 

[BourbonBalz]

i think the wide receiver from alabama will also go in the top ten

I’ll be shocked if Philly doesn’t take a WR with their first pick. They have a lot of needs, but receiver is a glaring one and they’ll possibly have one of the top two available when they pick.

 

[AKATheRake]

i think the wide receiver from alabama will also go in the top ten

There you go. Devonta Smith. Even Waddle might be hovering.

 

[gimmesix]

Barmore certainly can be in consideration in a trade down in rd 1. In my opinion, more of a 3T, but also could play that 4T DE, don't see him fitting as our NT.

I think in rd2 if we got the extra selection, one would be earmarked for either Moehrig/Grant if available and either a Edge or a DT3. Don't see the team drafting a two down NT this high like McNeil, where he and the other two could all be available in rd 3: Shelvin/Wilson. Now if they took Barmore already, I would put corner on the list.

Who would fit that Edge, DT3: Phillips, Basham, Onwu, Nixon (think many are overrating him as a 1st rd prospect), Tuefele. Something to also consider, team has two young prospects at the 3 that they do like, but who is behind Tank/Gregory? It wouldn't surprise me if they went in that direction.

I'd have to go back and look at the list, but I think drafttek has both Shelvin and Wilson rated as second-rounders. I think Quinn is going to want some beef inside. We need someone who can get after the quarterback on the interior such as Barmore of Nixon, but we also need someone who can eat up some blockers like McNeil, Shelvin and possibly Wilson.

I prefer that we go after the first-round-rated DT (Barmore was around 18th, Nixon around 26th in these ratings) because we've been trying to get the interior fixed with second- and third-rounders, especially the 3-tech position, and have failed. (It's different with 1-techs because you can usually find big guys who aren't considered explosive pass rushers after the first round.) Obviously, though, we have to go with value, so if we can't trade down, it's either Farley, Surtain or Parsons unless the draft experts' ratings are off on the value of the DTs.

 

[gimmesix]

There's going to be 3 maybe 4 QB's taken in the top 10 this year.

Sewell the OT is going to get taken also. That's 4 to 5 players taken before we pick and Parsons is the only player worth the top 10 pick at that point?

Lamaar Chase is going to go in the top 10 also, so that's 5 or 6 players and 6 or 7 gone if Parson is taken before our pick.

So there's not 3 to 4 players worthy of the top 10 pick at their respective positions available?

Only way I trade down is 2 or 3 spots and pick up an extra 2nd because some team is steaming for a QB or whatever we're not wanting with our pick. Only so often do you get to add a top 10 pick to your roster on a rookie deal.

Especially when you believe you're going to do a deal with your QB.

I don't think trading down just two or three spots would land us an extra second.

As far as drafting in the top 10, to me it's all about value vs. need. Sure, we could probably draft a top 10 offensive tackle. One of the quarterbacks might be there. Maybe one of the receivers. But we have a much greater need on defense.

Of course, some of that need will depend on what we do in free agency, but if it's our typical signings, that won't be much. If either Farley or Surtain is available when we pick, I'd have trouble passing that up, even though I really want a first-round DT. I'm not as sold on taking Parsons at 10.

 

[Cowboyny]

I'd have to go back and look at the list, but I think drafttek has both Shelvin and Wilson rated as second-rounders. I think Quinn is going to want some beef inside. We need someone who can get after the quarterback on the interior such as Barmore of Nixon, but we also need someone who can eat up some blockers like McNeil, Shelvin and possibly Wilson.

I prefer that we go after the first-round-rated DT (Barmore was around 18th, Nixon around 26th in these ratings) because we've been trying to get the interior fixed with second- and third-rounders, especially the 3-tech position, and have failed. (It's different with 1-techs because you can usually find big guys who aren't considered explosive pass rushers after the first round.) Obviously, though, we have to go with value, so if we can't trade down, it's either Farley, Surtain or Parsons unless the draft experts' ratings are off on the value of the DTs.

Two down run stuffers aren't going high in the draft, the interior pass rushers will go ahead of them. Dane Bruglar has Shelvin rated as 93rd prospect, McNeil at 97 and Marvin Wilson outside of the top 100. Most big boards have McNeil as a top 50 pick, just don't see that for his skillset. Many see him similar to Justin Hargrove who was a 3rd rd pick by the Steelers several years ago. Any of these three prospects fill our need at 1 Tech.

The likes of Barmore, Onwuz, Nixon are your three tech's. Barmore is more of a trade down option, probably goes in the top 20. The other two could be available for us at our 2nd round pick, along with Tufele. I honestly don't see the team drafting another 3T for the 3rd year in a row, unless a quality option falls to them with a blinking light. They have very little depth at DE with just Armstrong and Anae who has only limited experience. Maybe a player who can have positional flex like Carlos Basham, who can play DE in the base and kick inside in the nickel. Him as a pass rusher is as good as any of those 3T's mentioned.

I want to trade back, acquire an extra 2 and land one of those top 3 corners in the process. That extra two would be for that pressure player, if it's a DT or DE, no matter.

 

[gimmesix]

Two down run stuffers aren't going high in the draft, the interior pass rushers will go ahead of them. Dane Bruglar has Shelvin rated as 93rd prospect, McNeil at 97 and Marvin Wilson outside of the top 100. Most big boards have McNeil as a top 50 pick, just don't see that for his skillset. Many see him similar to Justin Hargrove who was a 3rd rd pick by the Steelers several years ago. Any of these three prospects fill our need at 1 Tech.

The likes of Barmore, Onwuz, Nixon are your three tech's. Barmore is more of a trade down option, probably goes in the top 20. The other two could be available for us at our 2nd round pick, along with Tufele. I honestly don't see the team drafting another 3T for the 3rd year in a row, unless a quality option falls to them with a blinking light. They have very little depth at DE with just Armstrong and Anae who has only limited experience. Maybe a player who can have positional flex like Carlos Basham, who can play DE in the base and kick inside in the nickel. Him as a pass rusher is as good as any of those 3T's mentioned.

I want to trade back, acquire an extra 2 and land one of those top 3 corners in the process. That extra two would be for that pressure player, if it's a DT or DE, no matter.

It depends on who you're listening to. For the purpose of this exercise, like I said in the beginning, I'm using Drafttek's ratings (which I went back and looked at). Drafttek has Barmore at 19, Nixon at 28, Tufele at 42, Wilson at 45, Basham at 51, Shelvin at 53 and McNeil at 62.

IF Dallas has the players rated that way, then we would need to take them in the first two rounds if we want two of them.

I don't agree on not taking a 3-tech for the third year in the row. We haven't done what we have needed to do at the position, and that's take one of the best. Instead, we've grabbed a player on potential in the second row and spent some third-rounders on a couple. We have not made it a priority when it is a premium position.

I think we need to target the first-rounders (in Drafttek's ratings, that's Barmore and Nixon). Obviously, I don't believe that we should overdraft them, but I do believe we should try to trade down and get one of them, especially if the top two corners are gone. (I would not have a problem with us trading down even if one of the top two corners are three ... because like I said, there's a pretty group of defenders rated in that 15-20 range.)

It is possible (since the ratings could be wrong) that some of the top 1-tech types will be available in the third, but I'd rather get the best we can there in the second to really try to fix the position. We've been counting on third-round or lower DTs for years and it hasn't worked well for us.

Of course, our problem is that we really have too many defensive positions to fix in the draft. We need a starting free safety. We need a starting corner. We need two starting defensive tackles. We need a starting linebacker. Can't count on getting five quality starters in the draft. It's possible, but it isn't likely.

Hopefully, the Joneses understand this and at least really address two of those positions in free agency.

 

[cowboyec]

i'd be all for whatever it takes to walk out of round 1 with DT Christian Barmore.

at 10...surtain or slater.

trade down...barmore or basham...maybe grant because he is zoomin' up the boards.

 

[Cowboyny]

It depends on who you're listening to. For the purpose of this exercise, like I said in the beginning, I'm using Drafttek's ratings (which I went back and looked at). Drafttek has Barmore at 19, Nixon at 28, Tufele at 42, Wilson at 45, Basham at 51, Shelvin at 53 and McNeil at 62.

IF Dallas has the players rated that way, then we would need to take them in the first two rounds if we want two of them.

I don't agree on not taking a 3-tech for the third year in the row. We haven't done what we have needed to do at the position, and that's take one of the best. Instead, we've grabbed a player on potential in the second row and spent some third-rounders on a couple. We have not made it a priority when it is a premium position.

I think we need to target the first-rounders (in Drafttek's ratings, that's Barmore and Nixon). Obviously, I don't believe that we should overdraft them, but I do believe we should try to trade down and get one of them, especially if the top two corners are gone. (I would not have a problem with us trading down even if one of the top two corners are three ... because like I said, there's a pretty group of defenders rated in that 15-20 range.)

It is possible (since the ratings could be wrong) that some of the top 1-tech types will be available in the third, but I'd rather get the best we can there in the second to really try to fix the position. We've been counting on third-round or lower DTs for years and it hasn't worked well for us.

Of course, our problem is that we really have too many defensive positions to fix in the draft. We need a starting free safety. We need a starting corner. We need two starting defensive tackles. We need a starting linebacker. Can't count on getting five quality starters in the draft. It's possible, but it isn't likely.

Hopefully, the Joneses understand this and at least really address two of those positions in free agency.

-We can agree to disagree about slotting, I believe Drafttek isn't one of the more accurate boards throughout the years, but for this exercise, we will use it for the discussion.

-Here is my viewpoint about taking another 3T. Believe the team will sign a bridge, veteran fa starter at the position. Neither Hill nor Gallimore were expected to see starter reps as they had McCoy/Crawford ahead of them. The hope was to continue to develop playing on a rotational basis. There is a steep learning curve at the position on the next level where college players need to learn technique and get stronger, many players can no longer win just on athletic ability only. With three expected to be on the roster, what type of role would the prospect drafted have? Rotational at best? Barmore was very inconsistent in college and he is a work in progress against the run at this juncture, something this team has a major weakness in. I'm not using a top 20 pick on a nickel, rotational player in hope he develops as a better run defender. I bet in a normal DT class, he isn't even a 1st rd player. Nixon is more of a one year wonder, where some love him, some others don't think he's special. Both players would be trade down options and would be taken if they were the best players available.

-The 1 Tech you don't want to use a premium pick on unless he is a legitimate 3 down player. He has to offer pass rush abilities to stay on the field. Player like Shelvin, won't give you nothing in that area, but he is stout against the run. McNeil/Wilson might have some rush abilities, but not enough to keep them on the field in the nickel. Team just may wait until day 3 to find such a player as there isn't a Vita Vea type in this draft. DT as a whole is average at best.

-The team has always valued edge pass rushers, there is little chance they head into next season just having Tank and Gregory playing on a 1 yr deal. Certainly Aldon could be resigned, but he doesn't really move the needle. Anae is a total unknown at this point. All they have is Dorace Armstrong a total jag. They were going to draft Chassion last season if Lamb didn't fall in their laps. I think many should start talking up more about the Defensive Ends and less about adding another 3T. It's is very possible one can play both.

-Follow the footprints, three secondary players are free agents, none are expected to return, two of which are starters. Team just hired a new DC who runs a cover 3 scheme that requires a rangy free safety and they did hire a new defensive backs coach, passing game coordinator. Corner is a valued position and costs a lot on the open market, everything points to them drafting a corner in rd 1 and taking a safety sometime in day 2, although they haven't done that in a real long time. Don't think fa will bring in an significant piece, due to cap decreasing and Dak needing a contract.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

If the Cowboys are deadset on drafting defense trading down will be key. There is not 1 defensive player I feel confident in taking at #10, but as stated above plenty of guys I'd like around 15.
Guys floated around at pick 10.
Caleb Farley: Has all the tools and traits you look for in a #1 CB, with the speed and athleticism, but the injuries and lack of playing time makes him a guy I am not comfortable with at 10.
Patrick Surtain: Good size and production in the SEC, but lacks athleticism you'd covet from a top 10 pick at CB.
Micah Parsons: Great size and athleticism but the positional value and off-field issues make him a guy I wouldn't touch at 10 and maybe not until the 20' at the earliest.
15-20
JOK: A very athletic guy who can be a swiss army knife on the defense playing LB, box S, slot and can do them all at a high level. Going to be interesting where he weighs in at come pro day and his testing is going to have to be off the charts.
Jaycee Horne: I wouldn't put him far behind Surtain and could possibly be the better CB among the 3.
Christian Barmore: The dude had a great college football playoff run, but there are not enough wins for him for me to take him top 10 and even in this ballpark might be a slight reach but if it pans out it's a good move.

The benefit of moving back is you get 2 players vs 1 in the top 96 picks which mitigates the risk vs the reward, especially in what's going to be a very weird off-season with no combine and no face-to-face meetings. The more darts you have the better chances you have to hit.

 

[Cowboyny]

If the Cowboys are deadset on drafting defense trading down will be key. There is not 1 defensive player I feel confident in taking at #10, but as stated above plenty of guys I'd like around 15.
Guys floated around at pick 10.
Caleb Farley: Has all the tools and traits you look for in a #1 CB, with the speed and athleticism, but the injuries and lack of playing time makes him a guy I am not comfortable with at 10.
Patrick Surtain: Good size and production in the SEC, but lacks athleticism you'd covet from a top 10 pick at CB.
Micah Parsons: Great size and athleticism but the positional value and off-field issues make him a guy I wouldn't touch at 10 and maybe not until the 20' at the earliest.
15-20
JOK: A very athletic guy who can be a swiss army knife on the defense playing LB, box S, slot and can do them all at a high level. Going to be interesting where he weighs in at come pro day and his testing is going to have to be off the charts.
Jaycee Horne: I wouldn't put him far behind Surtain and could possibly be the better CB among the 3.
Christian Barmore: The dude had a great college football playoff run, but there are not enough wins for him for me to take him top 10 and even in this ballpark might be a slight reach but if it pans out it's a good move.

The benefit of moving back is you get 2 players vs 1 in the top 96 picks which mitigates the risk vs the reward, especially in what's going to be a very weird off-season with no combine and no face-to-face meetings. The more darts you have the better chances you have to hit.

The defensive strength in this draft is from say 15-60, there will be a lot of similar graded players in this class.

 

[Daygoboy6191]

The defensive strength in this draft is from say 15-60, there will be a lot of similar graded players in this class.

100% agree, and that why I think if you can stack another day 2 pick and with all the picks we have we can maneuver to move up to get the guys we want.