Big difference between 90s oline and today's

[ghosttown cowboy]

I wish we had the money to sign them all and still get an elite pass rusher...

 

[Titleist]

Why not put Collins at RT next season? He was an excellent LT in college

 

[windjc]

In 1991 Mark Tuinei was 31 years old (played for Dallas until age 37, last pro bowl at 35), Kevin Gogan was 27, Mark Stepnoski was 24 (last played for Dallas at age 34, last pro bowl at age 29 with Houston), Nate Newton was 30 (played for Dallas until age 37, last pro bowl at 37).

Erik Williams became a starter in 92, and he was 24.He played for Dallas until age 32, and his last pro bowl was at 31.

Larry Allen became a starter in his rookie year in 1994. He was 23, but by this time Tunei was 34, Newton was 33, Stepnoski was 27. He played in Dallas until age 34 and was a pro bowler last at age 35.

Right now Zack Martin is 26, Travis Frederick is 25, Collins is 23, Smith is 26, Leary is 27. Chaz Green is 24.

This line could very well be productive for another 10 years... It's unfortunate a decision needs to be made regarding Leary now, because, I don't see us re-signing him. Would have been nice if Collins could have competed at RT.

Note: Doug Free is 32.

Our line today is better than the 90s line. It just is. Our offense is better too. If we had the defense of the 90s we'd be winning most games by 20+ points. We didnt blow too many people out in the 90s. It was similar to today, methodical wins. Because as great as our offense was it wasn't as good as the current unit.

 

[windjc]

I swear to my heavenly father if we don't resign Leary.

Do. not. break. this. O-line. up.

I agree. I am not so sure Collins can perform better than Leary. Not sure where the performance improvement could possibly show up. Leary is a mad dog, down and dirty type that loves physicality. Collins is good athletically, but maybe we keep Leary and trade Collins for a #1 and then some.

 

[xwalker]

Tony Wise did a heck of a job with that unit, biggest line in football at the time but they could move. Tui was the most underrated at LT, E Williams was the best before the accident, just a nasty great player.....should have been a HOFer like Allen if not for that. Step was undersized but held his own, Nate became a star by Madden but was agile and quick, Gesek was solid and Gogan was a monster.

Jerry should have made Tony Wise an offer he couldn't refuse to stay or to have returned at some point. Hudson Houck was Way overrated.

 

[Plankton]

Jerry should have made Tony Wise an offer he couldn't refuse to stay or to have returned at some point. Hudson Houck was Way overrated.

Wise wanted to leave to coach with his best friend, Dave Wannstedt. I don't think he would have stayed.

 

[JBell]

I swear to my heavenly father if we don't resign Leary.

Do. not. break. this. O-line. up.

This type of thinking will get us into cap trouble. I love Leary and think he's hands down a better player than Collins, but If the value's not there, no sense in overpaying, especially when you have to pay Zack the following year. This line runs through Tyron, Fred, and Martin.

 

[viman96]

Man do I miss Larry "Chu Chu" Allen!

Many forget to mention or do not know that Jimmy and Jerry built the 90's team before there was a salary cap. It seemed like those teams were 2 or 3 deep at every position. Then 1994 and the salary cap happened.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Right now Zack Martin is 26, Travis Frederick is 25, Collins is 23, Smith is 26, Leary is 27. Chaz Green is 24.

This line could very well be productive for another 10 years... It's unfortunate a decision needs to be made regarding Leary now, because, I don't see us re-signing him. Would have been nice if Collins could have competed at RT.

Note: Doug Free is 32.

Remember our excellent line in 2007-2009? All of them (except Free) turned 32 in 2010. Everyone here was saying, "Oh, they're offensive lineman, they can play well into their late 30s," citing examples of specific players. But it's not true, and sure enough, that line fell apart that year. Sure, some lineman keep their skills into their mid-to-late-30s, but those guys are the exception, not the rule. You do not want to be making plans around 32+-year-old linemen. IN 5-6 years, the roster needs to be in a position to absorb losing Smith/Martin/Fred, without knowing which one will go first. The good news: 5-6 years is an eternity.

 

[xwalker]

Wise wanted to leave to coach with his best friend, Dave Wannstedt. I don't think he would have stayed.

 

[Plankton]

"I'm a second-team guard from Ithaca who couldn't get a high school job. Dave was drafted , a major-college player, highly recruited," Wise said. "Jackie Sherrill hired me at Pitt because he thought I was a good coach, but he also thought I was pretty funny, a little bit of a court jester. I do a lot of needling. As a head coach, you have to be careful."

Wannstedt found that out when he accepted the Bears job before the Cowboys played the 1992 Super Bowl. He and Wise talked about every assistant except offensive line.

"It was denial," Jan said. "I don't know if Dave was waiting for Tony or Tony was waiting for Dave, but it didn't come up."

Finally, the conversation got to offensive line over a few pops at the Wannstedt home.

"Well, I guess I've got to come to Chicago because I can't let you go up there and screw that thing up," Wise said.

"So I got mad and told him if that's how he felt, he didn't have a job in Chicago," Wannstedt said. "He left and I went to bed. I couldn't sleep so I got up and drove to his house in shorts and a T-shirt. He was in his living room and we hashed things out."

"I think they yelled at each other over there and it was probably good," Jan said.

Wise had no professional reason to leave Johnson and the Cowboys. He was coaching a line of Pro Bowl stars who were poised to make another Super Bowl run.

"It was more than a business decision and that was special," Wannstedt said.

"It's a unique relationship," Jan said.

"I guess three words sum it up most," Wannstedt said. "I trust him."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...tony-wise-dave-wannstedt-coaching-conventions

 

[KJJ]

I wish we had the DL's we had in the 70's and early 90's to go along with our OL.

 

[viman96]

^very unlikely that could not happen with the salary cap

 

[Galian Beast]

Remember our excellent line in 2007-2009? All of them (except Free) turned 32 in 2010. Everyone here was saying, "Oh, they're offensive lineman, they can play well into their late 30s," citing examples of specific players. But it's not true, and sure enough, that line fell apart that year. Sure, some lineman keep their skills into their mid-to-late-30s, but those guys are the exception, not the rule. You do not want to be making plans around 32+-year-old linemen. IN 5-6 years, the roster needs to be in a position to absorb losing Smith/Martin/Fred, without knowing which one will go first. The good news: 5-6 years is an eternity.

Not sure what line you saw in 2009....

In 2009, Kosier was the weakest link on the line and he was tied for youngest at 31. Flozell Adams was already 34 years old...

This line was pretty good at run blocking but they were atrocious at pass pro.

 

[JD_KaPow]

Not sure what line you saw in 2009....

In 2009, Kosier was the weakest link on the line and he was tied for youngest at 31. Flozell Adams was already 34 years old...

2009 was the age-31 season for Kosier, Gurode, Davis and Colombo, all of whom were counted on as starters in 2010. The cracks were showing in '09 but the collapse came in '10 (or arguably in the MIN playoff game). Kosier lasted one more season with Dallas, the others were all gone in 2011.

 

[xwalker]

"I'm a second-team guard from Ithaca who couldn't get a high school job. Dave was drafted , a major-college player, highly recruited," Wise said. "Jackie Sherrill hired me at Pitt because he thought I was a good coach, but he also thought I was pretty funny, a little bit of a court jester. I do a lot of needling. As a head coach, you have to be careful."

Wannstedt found that out when he accepted the Bears job before the Cowboys played the 1992 Super Bowl. He and Wise talked about every assistant except offensive line.

"It was denial," Jan said. "I don't know if Dave was waiting for Tony or Tony was waiting for Dave, but it didn't come up."

Finally, the conversation got to offensive line over a few pops at the Wannstedt home.

"Well, I guess I've got to come to Chicago because I can't let you go up there and screw that thing up," Wise said.

"So I got mad and told him if that's how he felt, he didn't have a job in Chicago," Wannstedt said. "He left and I went to bed. I couldn't sleep so I got up and drove to his house in shorts and a T-shirt. He was in his living room and we hashed things out."

"I think they yelled at each other over there and it was probably good," Jan said.

Wise had no professional reason to leave Johnson and the Cowboys. He was coaching a line of Pro Bowl stars who were poised to make another Super Bowl run.

"It was more than a business decision and that was special," Wannstedt said.

"It's a unique relationship," Jan said.

"I guess three words sum it up most," Wannstedt said. "I trust him."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...tony-wise-dave-wannstedt-coaching-conventions

I'm aware of the Wannstedt-Wise connection.

They've worked together about 7 times including Wannstedt's HC tenures at Chicago, Miami and Pitt.

If an OL coach is making 200K and Jerry offers him 1M then even Wannstedt would tell him to work for Jerry.

 

[xwalker]

Man do I miss Larry "Chu Chu" Allen!

Many forget to mention or do not know that Jimmy and Jerry built the 90's team before there was a salary cap. It seemed like those teams were 2 or 3 deep at every position. Then 1994 and the salary cap happened.

The cap was somewhat of an issue but many of the problems were injuries and behavior.

Novacek and Haley had back problems. Kevin Smith had an Achilles problem. Erik William was never the same after the 1994 car accident. Some of the OL declined due to age or injury. Tolbert had bad knees.

With Jimmy gone there was nobody to keep the party guys contained to the "white house" and that led to constant problems.

Once the Jimmy players started to depart or decline, Jerry and Lacewell couldn't pick good players to replace them even if there was plenty of cap space.

 

[Ashwynn]

In 1991 Mark Tuinei was 31 years old (played for Dallas until age 37, last pro bowl at 35), Kevin Gogan was 27, Mark Stepnoski was 24 (last played for Dallas at age 34, last pro bowl at age 29 with Houston), Nate Newton was 30 (played for Dallas until age 37, last pro bowl at 37).

Erik Williams became a starter in 92, and he was 24.He played for Dallas until age 32, and his last pro bowl was at 31.

Larry Allen became a starter in his rookie year in 1994. He was 23, but by this time Tunei was 34, Newton was 33, Stepnoski was 27. He played in Dallas until age 34 and was a pro bowler last at age 35.

Right now Zack Martin is 26, Travis Frederick is 25, Collins is 23, Smith is 26, Leary is 27. Chaz Green is 24.

This line could very well be productive for another 10 years... It's unfortunate a decision needs to be made regarding Leary now, because, I don't see us re-signing him. Would have been nice if Collins could have competed at RT.

Note: Doug Free is 32.

In the salary cap era, keeping that line together with Dak and Zeke is going to tough, requiring creative cap management. And then you will want to spend a few dollars on the D too. Man, guess we will see how smart Stephen really is in a few years.

 

[Risen Star]

Why not put Collins at RT next season? He was an excellent LT in college

That's what I would do. It will be a big mistake if they don't.

 

[Q_the_man]

They need Erik Williams at RT...

Erik Williams was better than Allen but that car accident ruined his career. I still remember how he smacked Reggie White (RIP) around all game, then bam, car accident, never was the same.