Biggest question mark can this defense improve their run def?

[Hawkeye0202]

What do they all have in common? Elite offenses that control the football.

True but the Commanders were still worst than ours. Also, intrestingly, (I spent some time studying this from various angles ) most, ( with the exception 1-3 ) of the top run defense teams run a base 3-4 scheme. I know we have heard some fans/posters say 3-4 scheme doesn't matter today......well the numbers don't lie. I'm not saying it's OUR answer but time and time again it was base defensive scheme of top run defense teams.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

T.O.P offense should help with this, that's assuming this is shottys plan for year 1 with this team..

I can see next years plan being the year they bring in quality D players to shore up the run d problem.

Can't fix all problems with one draft/season. The took a major step addressing the offensive run game with this draft. As mentionif we can control/improve TOP, that will go a long ways helping the D.

 

[Pass2Run]

-Cowboys Defense was 29th against the run last season
-Tied for the most rushing td's given up
-Dead last in red zone defense

Overshown out indefinitely, team lost their three top run defenders in DLaw, Golston and Kendricks. Murray who they traded for is on his third team in as many years, Sanborn is a former undrafted fa. Turner/Thomas are former 1st rd busts.

In a draft that was loaded at the DT position, they use a 7th rd pick at the position.

Tell me, how this run defense will improve? On paper they got much worse!

Well, you say the class was loaded with DTs. If that's the case, would Toia have gone sooner in another year's class?

I think so.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Yeah this is the massive question....Personally I really like some of what is happening on defense to better the pass game, but the run defense seems to be extremely suspect. Of your starting DL you really don't have a single plus run defender in the bunch as they're all pass first guys except your 1T who has been a bit of a black hole so far in his career.

That really is the issue for the Cowboys defense right now, a lot of one dimensional players that do one thing really well, but are liabilities in other areas. Up front we know they are pass heavy, at the 2nd level its probably a stretch to say that they have a true three down player. I like Murray, but he isnt a step up and fill type. Sanborn can be, but has questions about his abilities on passing down. Overshow will start on the IR. Liufau is probably the most qualified to start in the middle, but coming off an up and down rookie year and changing systems its a huge question how effective he is.

Looks like another year where the plan is to get ahead early, control TOP with the run game and force teams to throw it....good chance we see two very different defenses week to week as we've gotten accustomed to in recent years.

 

[Cowboyny]

I agree and understand most of your concern but I think fixing it has more to do with scheme, as well as several factors rather than one player ( in this case a top DT ).

You know I was pushing adding a DE, DT and Mike LB to overhaul the run defense.

 

[Cowboyny]

Well, you say the class was loaded with DTs. If that's the case, would Toia have gone sooner in another year's class?

I think so.

Probably a 4th rd pick, but not higher.

 

[Cowboyny]

True but the Commanders were still worst than ours. Also, intrestingly, (I spent some time studying this from various angles ) most, ( with the exception 1-3 ) of the top run defense teams run a base 3-4 scheme. I know we have heard some fans/posters say 3-4 scheme doesn't matter today......well the numbers don't lie. I'm not saying it's OUR answer but time and time again it was base defensive scheme of top run defense teams.

As you know on the draft zone, took a deep dive on what is needed to fix our run defense, it was about getting bigger personnel. Now we are back to a version of the Marinelli scheme, it's all about quick twitch and playing the run on the way to the QB. Much rather have a 3-4 read and react defense that has players that tie up blockers.

 

[gtb1943]

How do you figure and some of you really just don't always take into account things, like tank didn't even really play last year, so how are we worse when a man who wasn't even on the field? also not going to be on the field this year, but we're going to have a second year player in Kneeland, hopefully he'll be better.. I like our complete linebacker room this year more than last year as a matter of fact when we get Overshown back which I don't know where you got indefinitely from, he's going to be back sooner than later he'll be back before mid-season.

The fact is we did add that Rogers defensive tackle back into the mix right at the end of the season, so more Beef, you know we had lost him and we added beef, doesn't matter if there's a 7th round.. we got two big dudes as a matter of fact; I was watching a video not just him but feedback some of the mock drafts had this guy on their top 100 players. so he went in the 250s? so it sounds like just because we got a guy in the 7th round, much like a guy like Brock Purdy or Tom Brady in the 6th round, how do you know one of these defensive tackles aren't going to blow your mind ,how do you know finally we're not going to have some nose plug nose tackle true nose tackle right up over the nose, that can't be moved?

You're asking us how we're going to improve how could you get worse from 29 mostly because of injuries that's also not taken into account we have so many injuries last year most of them will be back this year plus the people they added back to the mix...​

I can mainly tell you this it'll improve just because our entire defensive staff has been replaced, the other one was only here for 1 year, had one off season, and then you had a bunch of injuries on that side of the ball.. they never got it going.. this is a defensive coordinator .that's also a linebacker friendly defense. he's a linebacker whisperer . Cried in a very good defensive tackle coach ,and he's picking these guys because he feels he could stop the run with them,

Every year is different I could have just said how do you know they're not going to be improved that stuff you listed is insane... Just because Thomas and Turner looked like bust elsewhere he doesn't mean they don't fit in here in some way but health alone improves this defense the coaching staff alone improves his defense it's a new year it's a different time you're counting on them not improving at all I just think from 29th we will be improved how much you want to bet it might only be 28th it could be 26 but you act like we're going to get worse than 29th of the league against the run I just don't see it...​

How about watch the games and that after game 17 we could have a discussion where the ranking is and then we can answer your rhetorical question because there is no answer we haven't even seen them in camp we haven't seen them in a scrimmage we haven't seen them in a preseason game and for sure we haven't seen them in a real game...

Sure many of you just want to look at this whole draft in all season is another bad one and you're going to predict we're going to be terrible against a run we're not going to be able to run to football so you might not even bother watching the games then...

how about living in the real world for a change?

 

[Coogiguy03]

excellent question my friend. Unfortunately, it's above my pay grade. I haven't a clue. I can only hope the new staff can squeeze a little extra production out of each guy- both the new guys and the holdovers.

you ain't never had a friend like me!

 

[gtb1943]

you ain't never had a friend like me!

what was that old saying?
"With friends like these...."

 

[Hawkeye0202]

You know I was pushing adding a DE, DT and Mike LB to overhaul the run defense.

Yea I know.........we added the DE. Really surprised we have NOT added a more quality Mike. As for the DT.....I'm going to trust Eberflus plan on this one, at least this year. Here's why.....

****We have to assume he stood on the table for Osa signing, especially how much AND we could easily replaced him with maybe a better, cheaper player in a draft stacked with his position.

**** Even AFTER signing Osa, Eberflus still could have stood on the for a top young DT within the 1st three picks but he didn't. He instead rolled with DE and CB. This tells me he's satisfied with the players and his scheme enough for improvement. The question is how much will we see......

*****I think it's safe to say they were neverr using 12 on DT. But here's my issue, there are teams with ALL-PRO DTs ( notice the team run defense chart in anothe post) still struggling with their run defense. Likewise, some the of the best run defense teams arer starting mid-level DTs. It's why I have said stop the run is more about a team efford than one player or position. But that just me

 

[dupree89]

you ain't never had a friend like me!

Thank God.

 

[Majic]

As you know on the draft zone, took a deep dive on what is needed to fix our run defense, it was about getting bigger personnel. Now we are back to a version of the Marinelli scheme, it's all about quick twitch and playing the run on the way to the QB. Much rather have a 3-4 read and react defense that has players that tie up blockers.

Maybe after this season the penny finally drops for the Jones boys

 

[blueblood70]

Yes, DLaw missed most of the season, but Golston played well in his absence, especially as a run defender. Even if Overshown returns, we have no idea if he comes back the same player, two major knee injuries with the last one being most severe. Relying on some many young players at the NT position is worrisome, especially two lat rd prospects.

The front office says every offseason they have to improve their run defense, but yet do little or nothing about it. All they have done is bring in depth type pieces, where they needed a major overhaul. Yes, there are needs throughout the roster, but they continue to neglect this important area of need. It won't matter ho good our pass rush is, when they will never get a chance to rush the passer!

You say they did nothing without any proof they did nothing they got players they got coaching staffs we've got a schedule to play but yet we have five months between now and then to put it together and then play some games how could you say they did nothing and not know if these players are actually going to workout or not in this system... Do you guys understand that right you're judging everything by a lack of names or names but they need to get through some of these camps otas training camp and just start working through the ingredients to try to make a gourmet meal we'll figure that out once we see the product on the field they'll know it i'm pretty sure when they go into preseason and all these scrimmages and camps and start seeing these guys play they'll have a better idea of what they might need to improve..

Still don't get it I mean you guys have a list like a shopping list and it has to have specific names on it or you think it's a disaster how about like Greenlaw I just saw that the other day everyone's like man we should have brought that linebacker in because we shouldn't have brought sandbar in oh man now the dudes got something torn and he's probably going to miss most of the season we saw this at the trade deadline last year how many receivers change teams and you said we all should get one most of them did nothing absolutely nothing to help their team get better I mean you guys live on these names on the back of the jerseys why don't we let this coaching staff we're picking these players out to draft and free ages let's see what they can do with them...

 

[Deep_Freeze]

T.O.P offense should help with this, that's assuming this is shottys plan for year 1 with this team..

I can see next years plan being the year they bring in quality D players to shore up the run d problem.

We have been waiting til next year for a very long time now.

It will be a glaring weakness, especially against the better teams in the league once again unless our 7th rounder turns into a HOFer

 

[Cowboyny]

You say they did nothing without any proof they did nothing they got players they got coaching staffs we've got a schedule to play but yet we have five months between now and then to put it together and then play some games how could you say they did nothing and not know if these players are actually going to workout or not in this system... Do you guys understand that right you're judging everything by a lack of names or names but they need to get through some of these camps otas training camp and just start working through the ingredients to try to make a gourmet meal we'll figure that out once we see the product on the field they'll know it i'm pretty sure when they go into preseason and all these scrimmages and camps and start seeing these guys play they'll have a better idea of what they might need to improve..

Still don't get it I mean you guys have a list like a shopping list and it has to have specific names on it or you think it's a disaster how about like Greenlaw I just saw that the other day everyone's like man we should have brought that linebacker in because we shouldn't have brought sandbar in oh man now the dudes got something torn and he's probably going to miss most of the season we saw this at the trade deadline last year how many receivers change teams and you said we all should get one most of them did nothing absolutely nothing to help their team get better I mean you guys live on these names on the back of the jerseys why don't we let this coaching staff we're picking these players out to draft and free ages let's see what they can do with them...

They could of spent fa money to upgrade our run defense, but they chose to go the low budget route again with depth signings. They had an opportunity to draft a high end DT at 12, but decided to add more high resources to our OL where they already had 2 1st rd picks invested.

Last year, Zimmer was begging for DT help and signed every old NT he could find late in fa where no options were left. I understand they have time before the start of the season, but their history suggests all they do is sign aging, low cost veterans year after year without no plan.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Much rather have a 3-4 read and react defense that has players that tie up blockers.

I was curious about the DT position(s) for other teams ranked in the top half of the league in run defense. So crossed referencened the top 15-20 run defense teams to see their starting DTs. To my surprise, most didn't have an ALL-PRO or Pro Bowl DTs that jumped out. In stead the most common factor was the 3-4 base defensive scheme.
I have heard Eberflus runs a hybrid scheme similar, which might explain his success as the Colts DC.

 

[RS12]

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Dont get me wrong I like the kid out of BC and do think he will be a player, however this defense looks to be built similar to the Quinn defenses we just had. It is built to play from ahead. All pass rush with run D an after thought. Problem is I dont think this team will be playing from ahead very often. I dont like the offense any better. You want to run the ball to keep the defense off the field? Opponents will stack the box and make Dak beat them from the pocket. We all know how that ususlly ends.

 

[Cowboyny]

Yea I know.........we added the DE. Really surprised we have NOT added a more quality Mike. As for the DT.....I'm going to trust Eberflus plan on this one, at least this year. Here's why.....

****We have to assume he stood on the table for Osa signing, especially how much AND we could easily replaced him with maybe a better, cheaper player in a draft stacked with his position.

**** Even AFTER signing Osa, Eberflus still could have stood on the for a top young DT within the 1st three picks but he didn't. He instead rolled with DE and CB. This tells me he's satisfied with the players and his scheme enough for improvement. The question is how much will we see......

*****I think it's safe to say they were neverr using 12 on DT. But here's my issue, there are teams with ALL-PRO DTs ( notice the team run defense chart in anothe post) still struggling with their run defense. Likewise, some the of the best run defense teams arer starting mid-level DTs. It's why I have said stop the run is more about a team efford than one player or position. But that just me

Those teams have game changing interior players that can wreck a game, we could of drafted our own this yr, but decided they don't have enough resources along their OL. You don't need 5 1st rd picks up front, that is what coaching is for.

 

[Cowboyny]

3-4 Scheme was designed to stop the run.

I was curious about the DT position(s) for other teams ranked in the top half of the league in run defense. So crossed referencened the top 15-20 run defense teams to see their starting DTs. To my surprise, most didn't have an ALL-PRO or Pro Bowl DTs that jumped out. In stead the most common factor was the 3-4 base defensive scheme.
I have heard Eberflus runs a hybrid scheme similar, which might explain his success as the Colts DC.