Bob McGinn - Draft Series (Based on scouting comments) - QBs

[perrykemp]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...pects-quarterbacks-b99258613z1-257586291.html

 

[MonsterD]

Ok so one guy said Manziel is better than Drew Brees and is Montana-like. Then I watch on NFLN and Shaun O'Hara calls him a project and Holmgren says he is a long shot for success. Aargh this is nuts how divided opinions are about him.

 

[DFWJC]

Lol
I've been asking people if anyone else also thinks Bridgewater reminds them of Geno Smith. Finally I found someone who agrees.

Teddy is better though, IMO.

Yeah, Thoughts on Manziel really are all over the map.

 

[xwalker]

99% of people are terrible at evaluating QBs for the draft.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Thanks for posting, always enjoy his articles at draft time!

 

[jterrell]

FWIW:
I have them:
Bridgewater--most ready to play now. may never be elite but little risk that he's a solid. got some troy aikman to his game in his desire for success over splashiness. --not as big or accurate as troy so calm down.
Manziel--highest ceiling player in entire draft(because of position). very, very similar to rodgers coming out. strong arm, better feet, spread system guy that is great on the move.
Bortles--great athlete, less sophisticated offense than most. needs time. Vince Young with sharper tools in passing game.
drop off
Carr--questionable ceiling but solid NFL back up is floor with him. David Carr is the obvious comparison.
Murray--injury knocks him out of elite status but did everything at Georgia. If you hit on him he could be a 10 year starter, but injury makes floor a scary one.
Mettenburger--has never played up to his potential but another high ceiling guy. elite arm, questionable head. A little knuckleheadedness in there.
Garrapolo--probably slightly overrated because of the Payton/Romo connection. Lower ceiling and floor than those above.
drop off
McCarron et al : The rest have huge holes in their game somewhere so are longer shots. McCarron isn't an NFL caliber athlete and lacks arm strength. --every single guy above him here could win titles QBing Bama and about 25 other QBs in college right now could as well. So that "winner" part is overrated. Winning where others have failed is impressive. Leading 5 star talent at every position to wins is expected.

 

[xwalker]

If you look closely, you can see McCarron behind the wheel.

 

[Alexander]

Ok so one guy said Manziel is better than Drew Brees and is Montana-like. Then I watch on NFLN and Shaun O'Hara calls him a project and Holmgren says he is a long shot for success. Aargh this is nuts how divided opinions are about him.

A lot of the opinions about him are clouded by the noise surrounding him.

 

[jterrell]

A lot of the opinions about him are clouded by the noise surrounding him.

yup.

it is hard to "enjoy" the fact the kid is hanging with lebron and drake, crashing frat parties and generally douching his way through college life(like 99% of college guys).
at the same time tom brady is a mucho celebrity and a lot of qbs are just flat self-absorbed jerks.
so it is a tough deal.
any cowboys qb that wins will be a celebrity and have manziel like status.
so does having that constitute a negative with us??

i think the kid is smart enough to do what needs to be done to succeed on the field.
he's never failed there yet so it is tough to trash him imo.
having arguably the best pro day of the qb prospects and having off the charts test scores suggest he has exceptional intelligence which will get him out of jams and that he can learn and apply what is taught at the next level.

all that said i can't blame 60 year old dudes for hating this kid that is tweeting OVO notes back and forth with Drake and taking online classes.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

All of the stuff that happened with Johnny Football, while at ATM is pretty incidental IMO. I mean, none of it is tragic or serious issues with the law so I don't really see it as a real draw back. I guess you could say that he does have a propensity to take the easy way out, so to speak. I think that's a valid criticism and I think that could be a bit of a worry at the next level but again, that can also be looked at in the reverse.

My real problem with him is that I don't see him as as good a talent as many do. He certainly has skills but it's more of how they translate into the NFL game IMO. I have serious concerns about if he can learn to extend plays and move in the pocket, more so then break the pocket and subject his body to NFL hits. He's too important to any NFL Franchise to get seriously injured. For us, his ability to sit and learn would be a concern for me. He doesn't strike me as a patient guy. IDK.

 

[jhamilton8]

Lol
I've been asking people if anyone else also thinks Bridgewater reminds them of Geno Smith. Finally I found someone who agrees.

Teddy is better though, IMO.

Yeah, Thoughts on Manziel really are all over the map.

They are both pass-first, black quarterbacks. The comparison of their style of play stops there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think Bridgewater is light years ahead in his development then Geno Smith was at comparative points in development.

 

[DFWJC]

They are both pass-first, black quarterbacks. The comparison of their style of play stops there.

Simplify things much?
What's their race, of all things, possibly have to do with anything?

Teddy is more polished though.

 

[jhamilton8]

Simplify things much?
What's their race, of all things, possibly have to do with anything?

Teddy is more polished though.

Because for two years people were touting Bridgewater as the undeniable best QB out of this class. Geno ran a spread at WVU and Bridgewater ran a pro-style pistol offense at U of L. Bridgewater completed a higher percentage of passes in an offense designed around throwing the ball 8-15 yards every play. Geno got his stats from screen passes and depending on his quicker wide receivers to make plays at the line of scrimmage. There is no comparison between the two other than they are both black. This isn't personal towards you, just something I have seen thrown around recently. As a Louisville fan, I watched Teddy and Geno throughout their entire careers.

 

[jterrell]

Because for two years people were touting Bridgewater as the undeniable best QB out of this class. Geno ran a spread at WVU and Bridgewater ran a pro-style pistol offense at U of L. Bridgewater completed a higher percentage of passes in an offense designed around throwing the ball 8-15 yards every play. Geno got his stats from screen passes and depending on his quicker wide receivers to make plays at the line of scrimmage. There is no comparison between the two other than they are both black. This isn't personal towards you, just something I have seen thrown around recently. As a Louisville fan, I watched Teddy and Geno throughout their entire careers.

Ultimately my gut said the same thing.
Don't think DFWJC is falling in a racial trap but comparing black QBs is awfully convenient and borders on annoying at this point.

Truth is they are very different as athletes. Geno is a 4.59 guy, Teddy a 4.79.
Teddy is more stand in the pocket and deliver.
Geno was more about creating monster plays.
Pro Day aside Teddy has always displayed the more accurate, consistent arm.

The closest QB to Geno in this class is Manziel imho, except Manziel is more accurate and has a stronger arm.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would actually say Logan Thomas.

 

[xwalker]

All of the stuff that happened with Johnny Football, while at ATM is pretty incidental IMO. I mean, none of it is tragic or serious issues with the law so I don't really see it as a real draw back. I guess you could say that he does have a propensity to take the easy way out, so to speak. I think that's a valid criticism and I think that could be a bit of a worry at the next level but again, that can also be looked at in the reverse.

My real problem with him is that I don't see him as as good a talent as many do. He certainly has skills but it's more of how they translate into the NFL game IMO. I have serious concerns about if he can learn to extend plays and move in the pocket, more so then break the pocket and subject his body to NFL hits. He's too important to any NFL Franchise to get seriously injured. For us, his ability to sit and learn would be a concern for me. He doesn't strike me as a patient guy. IDK.

His character and mental makeup wouldn't be big concerns at other positions, but the QB position is all about mental makeup. There have been countless guys with terrific physical ability that just could not get it together mentally to play QB in the NFL.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

His character and mental makeup wouldn't be big concerns at other positions, but the QB position is all about mental makeup. There have been countless guys with terrific physical ability that just could not get it together mentally to play QB in the NFL.

I don't think there is anything wrong with his mental ability or makeup. I think his problem is patients more then anything.

If I had to do a one word association with him, it would be wreckless.

 

[jhamilton8]

Ultimately my gut said the same thing.
Don't think DFWJC is falling in a racial trap but comparing black QBs is awfully convenient and borders on annoying at this point.

Truth is they are very different as athletes. Geno is a 4.59 guy, Teddy a 4.79.
Teddy is more stand in the pocket and deliver.
Geno was more about creating monster plays.
Pro Day aside Teddy has always displayed the more accurate, consistent arm.

The closest QB to Geno in this class is Manziel imho, except Manziel is more accurate and has a stronger arm.

I don't want to come off as malicious towards DFWJC at all, we are all on the same team here. But as a Louisville fan it is frustrating watching Teddy dominate the competition and now once the season is over he starts to free fall. Some of the throws he has on his tape are out of this world. It is confusing watching the talking heads talk about how pro days are nothing but a carnival, then turning around and downgrading Bridgewater because of his pro day. Teddy won a game with a broken wrist and high ankle sprain and people question his toughness. Not everyone is a workout warrior, but I hope the Cowboys take a chance on him if he is there at #16.

 

[jterrell]

His character and mental makeup wouldn't be big concerns at other positions, but the QB position is all about mental makeup. There have been countless guys with terrific physical ability that just could not get it together mentally to play QB in the NFL.

While what you say is true it is also fair from a science.
Rodgers fell due to mental makeup questions.

What part of Manziel's mental make up is really in question?

The spotlight is never too big, he never folded under pressure.
When criticized he handled it either with comedy or with a strong showing.
He is not a dummy, if wonderlic means anything and historically it has.
He is a gym rat that loves celebrity status and beautiful women.
Sounds like a lot of VERY successful QBs.