Boston Herald on McGinest

[dbair1967]

FYI for those thinking its a slam dunk to sign him:

Patriots | McGinest wants to return
Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:43:03 -0800

John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports a source close to free agent LB Willie McGinest (Patriots) said McGinest's first choice is to return to the Patriots. As of Thursday, March 9, McGinest had not scheduled any visits with rival clubs. In an interview with ESPN Boston radio team president Jonathan Kraft said the Pats released McGinest so soon as a sign of respect. They could have kept him into next week and limited his options as free agency dollars disappeared.

 

[cowboygolfer]

I think McGinnest would cost us about twice what he is worth at this stage in his career. He has beena great player but I wonder what he has left, and what Bellicheck knows about him that we don't.

 

[dbair1967]

I think McGinnest would cost us about twice what he is worth at this stage in his career. He has beena great player but I wonder what he has left, and what Bellicheck knows about him that we don't.

I look at it this way...

1) if the Patriots dont want him and sign someone to replace him, that means two very very smart NFL people (Belichick and Pioli) think he isnt worth anything

2) you cant make the argument that "McGinest will sign here to play for a ring"...he has 3 of thm already, and is closer to another ring by taking whatever the Pats might want to give him to stay

3) I dont think you improve your team by filling holes with 30+ yr old free agents

if we signed him for the vet minimum to be a backup, fine...otherwise I dont want anything to do with him

David

 

[Da Hammer]

McGinest can still play, didn't he have like 4 sack in the playoffs???

 

[dallasfaniac]

McGinest can still play, didn't he have like 4 sack in the playoffs???

Yeah, and I think they were all against a 'just returning to action' Leftwich. Can't remeber though.

 

[ghst187]

McGinest can still play, didn't he have like 4 sack in the playoffs???

Yeah i think so, he was an animal, really stood out. People label him at OLB but he was lining up like a 3-4 DE and beating OTs to get to the QB.
He had 4 sacks in 2 games, while Ware and Ellis had 8 in 16. Do that math.
Yeah, he's old but he's still got at least two seasons worth of probowl play left.

 

[dbair1967]

Yeah, and I think they were all against a 'just returning to action' Leftwich. Can't remeber though.

you are correct

David

 

[Da Hammer]

so how many people think he actually signs here???

 

[dbair1967]

Yeah i think so, he was an animal, really stood out. People label him at OLB but he was lining up like a 3-4 DE and beating OTs to get to the QB.
He had 4 sacks in 2 games, while Ware and Ellis had 8 in 16. Do that math.
Yeah, he's old but he's still got at least two seasons worth of probowl play left.

you act like this guy is some elite player now, and he isnt...

last yr he had 57 tackles and 6 sacks for the season

the guys played 12 seasons, and in 8 of them had no more than 6 sacks

this will be yr 13...you people are obsessing again over a "name"

David

 

[cowboygolfer]

I am not saying he can't play, but how many 1-2 year guys do you want on your team?

You don't build a team with end of their career guys, you get young guys and mold them as a team IMO. I think the sheer fact that he would cost huge money makes him a terrible signing for the long run.

You want to give him an incentive laden contract based on total tackles etc. I am fine with that, heck if he leads teh team in tackles pay him but I think being the last stop and final payday for over the hill vets is a dangerous game to play.

 

[bbgun]

you act like this guy is some elite player now, and he isnt...

last yr he had 57 tackles and 6 sacks for the season

the guys played 12 seasons, and in 8 of them had no more than 6 sacks

this will be yr 13...you people are obsessing again over a "name"

David

:

 

[dallasfaniac]

Yeah i think so, he was an animal, really stood out. People label him at OLB but he was lining up like a 3-4 DE and beating OTs to get to the QB.
He had 4 sacks in 2 games, while Ware and Ellis had 8 in 16. Do that math.
Yeah, he's old but he's still got at least two seasons worth of probowl play left.

He only had one game with 4 or more sacks last year. Take away the 4 sack game against Leftwich who had been out half the year and was just returning to action and he had only 6 sacks on the year. That 6 sacks in the regular season. I like McGinest, but I am keeping it real as they say.

Ware had 8 sacks in a the regular season and it was his first year playing LB.
Ellis is a DE in the 3-4 now, they usually don't rack up sacks but he had 8 sacks as well, both better than McGinest over the regular season.

Having said that, I could see bringing him in for a contract equal to his production and age.

 

[kingwhicker]

He's a relic, which means he would fit in well here. I don't want any parts of him or that other dino dodo TO.

 

[Idgit]

He only had one game with 4 or more sacks last year.

:laugh2:

 

[Idgit]

I look at it this way...

1) if the Patriots dont want him and sign someone to replace him, that means two very very smart NFL people (Belichick and Pioli) think he isnt worth anything

It doesn't mean that at all. The question is one of value, not one of ability. See: Troy Brown, last year.

2) you cant make the argument that "McGinest will sign here to play for a ring"...he has 3 of thm already, and is closer to another ring by taking whatever the Pats might want to give him to stay

Not that anyone's making that argument, but you *can* make it. The object is always the ring. I also disagree with you about the Pats chances being better than the Cowboys this coming year, but that's a subject for another discussion.

3) I dont think you improve your team by filling holes with 30+ yr old free agents

if we signed him for the vet minimum to be a backup, fine...otherwise I dont want anything to do with him

You fill holes with ability and value. It doesn't really matter where the value comes from. The only difference is, if the player is older, the value won't last as long, and (because of the higher risk of injury) it's a bit less dependable during the time you have it. The upside with older players is that they're known commodities and, if you sign them right, they don't carry the same risk of a bust. Parcells, in particular, values this predictability, and I completely agree with him.

 

[dbair1967]

>>>It doesn't mean that at all. The question is one of value, not one of ability. See: Troy Brown, last year.<<<<

sure it means they think he cant play...if he is saying "I want to stay here" but the Pats are saying "no thanks" and sign someone to replace him, thats exactly what they are saying

>>>Not that anyone's making that argument, but you *can* make it. The object is always the ring. I also disagree with you about the Pats chances being better than the Cowboys this coming year, but that's a subject for another discussion.<<<

Bill Belechick is coaching them...Tom Brady QB's them...they won 3 in 4yrs and got to the 2nd rd this yr with a severely beaten up team...they are WAY closer than us

>>>Parcells, in particular, values this predictability, and I completely agree with him.[/QUOTE]<<<

yeah, Ryan Young, Eddie George, Marco Rivera and Jason Ferguson are all shining proof of that theory...

David

 

[Idgit]

sure it means they think he cant play...if he is saying "I want to stay here" but the Pats are saying "no thanks" and sign someone to replace him, thats exactly what they are saying

It means they don't want him at his original price at the tail end of a backloaded deal. Anything more and you're reading into it.

Bill Belechick is coaching them...Tom Brady QB's them...they won 3 in 4yrs and got to the 2nd rd this yr with a severely beaten up team...they are WAY closer than us

I'll take our coach, give you the QB. The Cowboys won 3 of 4 at one point, followed it up with a playoff year, too, before floundering. It's awfully hard to keep a roll like that going. I'd give us the nod on defense this coming year, and I like our chances of improving more via FA and the draft. The Pats aren't an elite team anymore, they play in a stronger conference, and they won't be WAY closer when the season starts.

yeah, Ryan Young, Eddie George, Marco Rivera and Jason Ferguson are all shining proof of that theory...

Eddie George wasn't a Parcells move. Ferguson was only a failure in the minds of some on this board (that was a 6 time probowler he was splitting with), Rivera was coming off an injury, so let's see what happens with him this year, and 'predictable' is not the same thing as 'guaranteed.' See Key, Glenn, A. Glenn, R. Anderson, Testaverde, and the first three signings of this off season as the counter to your argument.

 

[dbair1967]

It means they don't want him at his original price at the tail end of a backloaded deal. Anything more and you're reading into it.


I'll take our coach, give you the QB. The Cowboys won 3 of 4 at one point, followed it up with a playoff year, too, before floundering. It's awfully hard to keep a roll like that going. I'd give us the nod on defense this coming year, and I like our chances of improving more via FA and the draft. The Pats aren't an elite team anymore, they play in a stronger conference, and they won't be WAY closer when the season starts.


Eddie George wasn't a Parcells move. Ferguson was only a failure in the minds of some on this board (that was a 6 time probowler he was splitting with), Rivera was coming off an injury, so let's see what happens with him this year, and 'predictable' is not the same thing as 'guaranteed.' See Key, Glenn, A. Glenn, R. Anderson, Testaverde, and the first three signings of this off season as the counter to your argument.

nice spin job there...let us know when you wake up from fantasy land

David

 

[Idgit]

nice spin job there...let us know when you wake up from fantasy land

David

Nice spin job? Where? How? Oh, wait, that just your way of saying you got nuthin', right?

I'll set my alarm to wake me when the first signings start happening. How's that sound?