Boylston: Combine is a bunch of crap...

[trickblue]

From The Huddle Report...

The combine is coming up and for me it helps to confirm some positives and negatives about a player but to be honest with you some of it I think is a bunch of crap. I mean as a scout and a team if you haven’t got a pretty good idea who can play at the next level and who cannot then you are in for a bad draft. I guess it would mean more to the teams who have new head coaches but that should be about it.

In most cases, because I actually look at film, I have a good feel if a player is athletic enough already. To confirm this at the combine may affect what round a player is taken in the draft but for me it does not affect my personal profile of a player and his abilities to be successful at the next level.

What always confuses me is the fact that there are surprises that come out of the combine and how teams react to them. Now most of it is because scouts and GM’s are trying to manipulate the system. But some of it is just plain crazy. A couple of years ago Terrell Suggs went to the combine and did not run a very good 40 yd dash. Because of this he dropped like a stone. Now let’s think about this for a minute. You mean to tell me that nobody ever timed this kid as they were scouting him? I mean most of the time players have to run for their college teams at some point! It also doesn’t take a genius to know that Terrell as a pass- rushing DE is not going to run 40 yds and catch anybody, he is going to run 10 to 15 yds and isn’t that more important? Quickness off the line at the snap isn’t that more important? Leverage isn’t that more important? Brains and the ability to learn quickly, isn’t that more important? Character and how he deals with authority figures isn’t that more important? Because scouts were surprised that Terrell wasn’t very fast led me to believe that some of them though that he could be a linebacker! Well let me tell you this If you thought that Terrell Suggs had the ability to be a linebacker in your system and you had scouted him then you would have timed him way before the combine! Ok so let’s say you did time him and he ran a 4.8 like he did at the combine. Did you really think he was going to run a 4.6 a few months later? My point is that it should not have been a shock what time he ran at the combine. That little bit of information should have been known before the combine and if it came as a surprise to some teams well all I can say is no wonder you think that the draft is no better then a 50/50 chance of getting a good player. The only surprise at the combine should be if a player does way better then what you expect and even that should throw up a red flag because either the kid is on something or your scout is not. If I’m an owner paying people to scout players and a first round player does something that surprises my scouts at the combine, well you all know what Donald Trump would say and so would I! That’s right “Your Fired”!​

 

[Cowboy from New York]

Its a very valid point that the results coming out of the combine are way overblown. However, the truth is that those results do drastically effect some players so in a paradoxical way they do matter. Even the writer admits that when he speaks of T Suggs. So while it can be argued that what goes on at the combine should matter very little the fact is two or three guys are going to come out of no where and rocket up the draft boards because of what they do there, that fact alone makes the combine quite important as the postion f the prospects we like will change, in some cases, significantly. Changes that could effect our philosohopy of trading up, down or staying put.

 

[Derinyar]

Its a very valid point that the results coming out of the combine are way overblown. However, the truth is that those results do drastically effect some players so in a paradoxical way they do matter. Even the writer admits that when he speaks of T Suggs. So while it can be argued that what goes on at the combine should matter very little the fact is two or three guys are going to come out of no where and rocket up the draft boards because of what they do there, that fact alone makes the combine quite important as the postion f the prospects we like will change, in some cases, significantly. Changes that could effect our philosohopy of trading up, down or staying put.

I think we would be wise to find the workout warrior and avoid that player entirely. Very few of them ever turn into much of anything.

 

[nathanlt]

I think we would be wise to find the workout warrior and avoid that player entirely. Very few of them ever turn into much of anything.

Right. The combine performances are kind of a good to know thing, but if a guy can't play football, the combine is a chance to artificially boost his status.

If a guy already has the stats and the skills, the combine can make his stock legitimately rise.

 

[lkelly]

Oh, where to begin...

For the mental midget at the huddle report, when exactly would NFL teams have the chance to time Suggs before the combine? It might be possible for him to run for teams at a pro day as an underclassman, but usually pro teams are only working out the draft eligible prospects at those meetings. Players don't have private workouts for teams before the combine (that I know of). As for measuring his quickness over 10-15 yards, that's why they run the shuttle drill. Suggs measured relatively poorly in that drill as well. Please get a clue. It doesn't mean he CAN'T be an effective player, but it does give teams another factor to the consider. Suggs went #10 overall in the draft. How that constitutes a freefall is beyond me. The only other DE that went before him (at spot #9) has played pretty well too - Kevin Williams.

Is this the time where the annual lineup of people come out of the woodwork to denounce the combine and tell us how useless it is? Funny, but last time I checked all 32 teams show up to check out the players. Maybe those scouts, coaches, and general managers haven't yet heard the reality that it is a big waste of time. Think of the time and money they could be saving. Andy Reid could probably eat a few more cheesteaks if he wasn't wasting his time in Indianapolis.

 

[joseephuss]

Oh, where to begin...

For the mental midget at the huddle report, when exactly would NFL teams have the chance to time Suggs before the combine? It might be possible for him to run for teams at a pro day as an underclassman, but usually pro teams are only working out the draft eligible prospects at those meetings. Players don't have private workouts for teams before the combine (that I know of). As for measuring his quickness over 10-15 yards, that's why they run the shuttle drill. Suggs measured relatively poorly in that drill as well. Please get a clue. It doesn't mean he CAN'T be an effective player, but it does give teams another factor to the consider. Suggs went #10 overall in the draft. How that constitutes a freefall is beyond me. The only other DE that went before him (at spot #9) has played pretty well too - Kevin Williams.

Is this the time where the annual lineup of people come out of the woodwork to denounce the combine and tell us how useless it is? Funny, but last time I checked all 32 teams show up to check out the players. Maybe those scouts, coaches, and general managers haven't yet heard the reality that it is a big waste of time. Think of the time and money they could be saving. Andy Reid could probably eat a few more cheesteaks if he wasn't wasting his time in Indianapolis.

Good post.

The combine serves a good purpose for teams. Should they soley rely on it? Of course not. Teams use the combine, all star games, film study and scout evaluations to decide what players they want. The coaches can not attend every single private work out. There are not enough scouts to go to every college game during a season and coaches really never get to see players in game action other than on film. The combine affords coaches the opportunity to view many players at least doing something. It helps their evaluation.

 

[AdamJT13]

For every workout warrior whose value is inflated because of the Combine, and for every future All-Pro whose stock dropped at the Combine, there is a college All-American who is exposed at the Combine for what he really is -- undersized, unathletic and incapable of making an impact in the NFL.

Face it, at some point, NFL teams have to get accurate measurables on prospects. In college, you can be a 5-11, 219-pound middle linebacker who runs a 4.95 but plays well enough to be All-ACC or such. Your school will list you at 6-1, 235 and say you run a 4.7. If the NFL didn't have a chance to measure and test players, there would be a lot more draft busts -- not fewer.

 

[dallasfaniac]

From The Huddle Report...

That's all I needed to know.

dallasfaniac:The Huddle Report is a bunch of crap.

 

[Derinyar]

For every workout warrior whose value is inflated because of the Combine, and for every future All-Pro whose stock dropped at the Combine, there is a college All-American who is exposed at the Combine for what he really is -- undersized, unathletic and incapable of making an impact in the NFL.

Face it, at some point, NFL teams have to get accurate measurables on prospects. In college, you can be a 5-11, 219-pound middle linebacker who runs a 4.95 but plays well enough to be All-ACC or such. Your school will list you at 6-1, 235 and say you run a 4.7. If the NFL didn't have a chance to measure and test players, there would be a lot more draft busts -- not fewer.

Definately a valid point.

 

[lkelly]

Another point - everyone gushes over the Patriots and their philosophy of drafting good, hardworking guys. They don't draft "cancers" (or so the conventional wisdom would have you believe). Where do you think they find out personality info on all these guys? Do they travel around to every college on a Grateful Dead-esque roadtrip and personally visit the kids and their coaches? Somehow I doubt it. Odds are they get a good bit of personal exposure to players at the combine just like every other team. They give them tests, conduct interviews, and see how they come across.

There are other ways to interview players and find out information about them, but the Combine is a perfect time to do most of the dirty work.