Broaddus Breakdown: Guards/centers

[Stash]

Also, to say Romo was solely the product of Payton is silly. First of all, without Parcells there is no Sean Payton in Dallas. Parcells brought Payton to Dallas when his coaching stock was at an all time low and he had been demoted in New York. It was David Lee, not Sean Payton, who groomed Romo during the offseasons and completely reworked his throwing motion. Parcells provided Romo with Testeverde as a mentor, who Romo credits with teaching him how to go about being a professional NFL QB. Parcells perfectly groomed Romo, not rushing him and ruining him. The bottom line is that if not for Parcells, there is no Tony Romo as a Dallas Cowboys. End of Story.

Regarding Romo, I think he was referring to Payton's connection to Eastern Illinois as being the big factor in Romo deciding to sign with the Cowboys as an undrafted free agent.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Regarding Romo, I think he was referring to Payton's connection to Eastern Illinois as being the big factor in Romo deciding to sign with the Cowboys as an undrafted free agent.

thank you. Mike Shanahann was desperatley trying to get Romo to Denver....Payton was very instrumental in getting Romo to Dallas.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Wow, could you please post transcripts of the Dallas War Room, since you seem to have access, and let us know what the discussions were when they drew straws and decided who was responsible for which pick. Seems like they took turns "Okay, now it's your turn to make a pick Jerry. I'll get the next one." Seems a rather silly and simplistic outlook to me.


Also, to say Romo was solely the product of Payton is silly. First of all, without Parcells there is no Sean Payton in Dallas. Parcells brought Payton to Dallas when his coaching stock was at an all time low and he had been demoted in New York. It was David Lee, not Sean Payton, who groomed Romo during the offseasons and completely reworked his throwing motion. Parcells provided Romo with Testeverde as a mentor, who Romo credits with teaching him how to go about being a professional NFL QB. Parcells perfectly groomed Romo, not rushing him and ruining him. The bottom line is that if not for Parcells, there is no Tony Romo as a Dallas Cowboys. End of Story.

I get your sarcasm. But I like everyone else...goes by the bits and pieces we pick over time...if you are PAYING attention.

I can tell you are a big Parcells guy...so WAS I. In the end it was time for him to go. The Seattle game was a GLARING example of that fact. We played not to lose...and we lost. The gameplan was to play not to lose..and we lost. And the bottom line is that if Parcells was still in Dallas...we would NOT have averaged 11-5 over the last 3 years (something he NEVER did). And this team would not be on the cusp of something special. You might not want to credit, Jerry, Wade or whomever. But the management team we have in place NOW...is better than the one we had in place when Parcells was here. That is a fact Jack!

 

[Stautner]

not so fast.

Parcells in his FIRST year had the benefit of a top 5 pick (Newman) and a 5-11 schedule. We started out 8-3 and PROMPTLY cratered as soon as we started seeing better teams.

Parcells for my money receives credit for Barber, Witten, Canty, Newman, Crayton and Bradie James.

Sean Payton receives credit for Tony Romo

Ray Sherman receives credit for Miles Austin

Jerry Jones receives credit for DeMarcus Ware. Parcells wanted Spears at #11 overall. Which means we would not have Demarcus Ware right now, and this team would be vastly different. In fact it has been reported that Parcells preferred Merriman over Ware.

Parcells receives blame for Jacob Rogers, (2nd round bust), Al Johnson (2nd round bust), Stephen Peterman (3rd round bust), Bobby Carpenter (1st round bust), Anthony Fasano (2nd round bust), Julius Jones (should have drafted Steven Jackson)

Jerry deserves blame for Pac Man, Roy Williams, Peerless Price, Eddie George, Isiah Stanback, James Martin (colossal 3rd bust)

Wade and company receives credit for Jenkins, Spencer, Scandrick, Free, Felix, Choice, Nick Folk. And Wade unleashed the talent Bill and Jerry brought in. Not to mention he made the defense more exotic and opened up the offense. Parcells was upfront with the fact he wanted no parts of a complicated defense. Mano vs mano and let the best man win was his style.

So contrary to POPULAR belief...the majority of our Pro Bowlers over the last 5 years were NOT Parcells disciples.

Again, his importance cannot be understated...he changed the culture, we became relevant again....he made guys play for pride again. But he was NOT a personell guru like people claim he is.

And let's not forget how DALLAS COWBOY legends were not embraced during the Parcells years....but we had former New York Giants running around our practice fields wearing Dallas Cowboy gear....DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I think this is an unfair picture. First, having a top 5 pick doesn't even remotely make up for a team that was so bad it was 5-11 for 3 straight years. If picking high in the draft makes up for it the team would have rebounded 2 years earlier.

Second, all this assigning who gets credit for what players is in inaccurate picture of how the process works. It isn't a number of coaches all working independently bringing in their own pet guys and pushing them down everyone else's throat until the team accepts them. It's a process involving everyone, and they collectively agree who they want to draft and what free agents to bring into camp, with Parcells having the final say in who stays and goes.

Do you have any idea how many free agents are brought in during training camp at the recommendation of one of the coaches or scouts or some college coach, and how many the head coach ends up cutting? Most of them. Do you really think every other head coach in the NFL is doing all the scouting and research on his own, and Parcells deserves less credit because he didn't handpick Romo? He still made the decision on whether to keep Romo around the first year, and in future years to give him a chance to develop, and he made the decision to eventually start him over Bledsoe.

It's just plain wrong to say Parcells deserves no credit because he is the guy that decided Romo's fate.

It's just as wrong to start pointing at who to blame for this player and that. I would agree that Jerry was primarily responsible for a select few like TO for example, but you can't do that with every player down the line.

It's just plain naive to think that everyone from the GM to the head coach to the assistant coaches to the scouts are all working indepenedently of each other and that you can assign an individual responsibility for every player brought in.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Sorry, but I think this is an unfair picture. First, having a top 5 pick doesn't even remotely make up for a team that was so bad it was 5-11 for 3 straight years. If picking high in the draft makes up for it the team would have rebounded 2 years earlier.

Second, all this assigning who gets credit for what players is in inaccurate picture of how the process works. It isn't a number of coaches all working independently bringing in their own pet guys and pushing them down everyone else's throat until the team accepts them. It's a process involving everyone, and they collectively agree who they want to draft and what free agents to bring into camp, with Parcells having the final say in who stays and goes.

Do you have any idea how many free agents are brought in during training camp at the recommendation of one of the coaches or scouts or some college coach, and how many the head coach ends up cutting? Most of them. Do you really think every other head coach in the NFL is doing all the scouting and research on his own, and Parcells deserves less credit because he didn't handpick Romo? He still made the decision on whether to keep Romo around the first year, and in future years to give him a chance to develop, and he made the decision to eventually start him over Bledsoe.

It's just plain wrong to say Parcells deserves no credit because he is the guy that decided Romo's fate.

It's just as wrong to start pointing at who to blame for this player and that. I would agree that Jerry was primarily responsible for a select few like TO for example, but you can't do that with every player down the line.

It's just plain naive to think that everyone from the GM to the head coach to the assistant coaches to the scouts are all working indepenedently of each other and that you can assign an individual responsibility for every player brought in.

I am not saying they work independently. But I am tired of everyone lamenting everything that goes wrong in Dallas is Jerry's fault. And everything that goes right is in SPITE of Jerry. So if people want to point to Pac Man, Tank Johnson, Peerless Price, Eddie George etc...then don't leave out all of the players we have acquired SINCE Parcells has left. I mean of out 13 Pro Bowlers a couple of years ago, do people realize how many were NOT on Parcells watch?

Flo - drafted before Parcells
Gurode - drafted before Parcells
Roy Williams - drafted before Parcells
Newman - drafted with Parcells here
Witten - drafted with Parcells here
Davis - brought in after Parcells
Hamlin - brought in after Parcells
Folk - drafted after Parcells
Ellis - drafted before Parcells
TO - brought in while Parcells was here
Barber - brought in while Parcells was here
Ware - brought in while Parcells was here
Romo - brought in while Parcells was here

7 were acquired without Parcells around

TO Parcells wanted no parts of

Romo was brought in at the behest of Payton

Parcells wanted Spears not Ware at #11

I mean this is not stuff that is made up. These are pretty much accepted facts. Let's give Jerry a little credit here folks.

 

[Cover 2]

I am not saying they work independently. But I am tired of everyone lamenting everything that goes wrong in Dallas is Jerry's fault. And everything that goes right is in SPITE of Jerry. So if people want to point to Pac Man, Tank Johnson, Peerless Price, Eddie George etc...then don't leave out all of the players we have acquired SINCE Parcells has left. I mean of out 13 Pro Bowlers a couple of years ago, do people realize how many were NOT on Parcells watch?

Flo - drafted before Parcells
Gurode - drafted before Parcells
Roy Williams - drafted before Parcells
Newman - drafted with Parcells here
Witten - drafted with Parcells here
Davis - brought in after Parcells
Hamlin - brought in after Parcells
Folk - drafted after Parcells
Ellis - drafted before Parcells
TO - brought in while Parcells was here
Barber - brought in while Parcells was here
Ware - brought in while Parcells was here
Romo - brought in while Parcells was here

7 were acquired without Parcells around

TO Parcells wanted no parts of

Romo was brought in at the behest of Payton

Parcells wanted Spears not Ware at #11

I mean this is not stuff that is made up. These are pretty much accepted facts. Let's give Jerry a little credit here folks.

Jerry changed after Parcells though, and that is what is important. Jerry is infinitely better post-Parcells as opposed to pre-Parcells.

 

[dcfanatic]

not so fast.

Parcells in his FIRST year had the benefit of a top 5 pick (Newman) and a 5-11 schedule. We started out 8-3 and PROMPTLY cratered as soon as we started seeing better teams.

Parcells for my money receives credit for Barber, Witten, Canty, Newman, Crayton and Bradie James.

Sean Payton receives credit for Tony Romo

Ray Sherman receives credit for Miles Austin

Jerry Jones receives credit for DeMarcus Ware. Parcells wanted Spears at #11 overall. Which means we would not have Demarcus Ware right now, and this team would be vastly different. In fact it has been reported that Parcells preferred Merriman over Ware.

Parcells receives blame for Jacob Rogers, (2nd round bust), Al Johnson (2nd round bust), Stephen Peterman (3rd round bust), Bobby Carpenter (1st round bust), Anthony Fasano (2nd round bust), Julius Jones (should have drafted Steven Jackson)

Jerry deserves blame for Pac Man, Roy Williams, Peerless Price, Eddie George, Isiah Stanback, James Martin (colossal 3rd bust)

Wade and company receives credit for Jenkins, Spencer, Scandrick, Free, Felix, Choice, Nick Folk. And Wade unleashed the talent Bill and Jerry brought in. Not to mention he made the defense more exotic and opened up the offense. Parcells was upfront with the fact he wanted no parts of a complicated defense. Mano vs mano and let the best man win was his style.

So contrary to POPULAR belief...the majority of our Pro Bowlers over the last 5 years were NOT Parcells disciples.

Again, his importance cannot be understated...he changed the culture, we became relevant again....he made guys play for pride again. But he was NOT a personell guru like people claim he is.

And let's not forget how DALLAS COWBOY legends were not embraced during the Parcells years....but we had former New York Giants running around our practice fields wearing Dallas Cowboy gear....DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!

David Lee gets just as much credit for Romo as Payton. He worked with Romo all day every day to help develop him.

 

[UnoDallas]

Parcells for my money receives credit for Barber, Witten, Canty, Newman, Crayton and Bradie James.

Sorry not Newman

2003 draft Newman

The night before the 2003 draft, scouts and personnel people wanted the team to draft Terence Newman, the cornerback from Kansas State, if he was available.

Parcells preferred Oklahoma State defensive tackle Kevin Williams.

Owner/general manager Jerry Jones took Parcells out to dinner and convinced him Newman was the better choice.

The next day, Dallas selected Newman as the No. 5 pick in the first round, and he's started every game since.
"It's been off and on," said Larry Lacewell, the Cowboys' retired scouting director, who worked with Parcells in his first two seasons in Dallas.

"Under Parcells, it was him. Before, it was scouts and whoever. ...

We got Jerry and Stephen [Jones] to take him out and made him mad and told him we're going to take Newman."

Coaches wanting one player and scouts wanting another is a common occurrence in NFL draft rooms.

By CALVIN WATKINS / The Dallas Morning News

 

[dcfanatic]

Parcells for my money receives credit for Barber, Witten, Canty, Newman, Crayton and Bradie James.

Sorry not Newman

2003 draft Newman

The night before the 2003 draft, scouts and personnel people wanted the team to draft Terence Newman, the cornerback from Kansas State, if he was available.

Parcells preferred Oklahoma State defensive tackle Kevin Williams.

Owner/general manager Jerry Jones took Parcells out to dinner and convinced him Newman was the better choice.

The next day, Dallas selected Newman as the No. 5 pick in the first round, and he's started every game since.
"It's been off and on," said Larry Lacewell, the Cowboys' retired scouting director, who worked with Parcells in his first two seasons in Dallas.

"Under Parcells, it was him. Before, it was scouts and whoever. ...

We got Jerry and Stephen [Jones] to take him out and made him mad and told him we're going to take Newman."

Coaches wanting one player and scouts wanting another is a common occurrence in NFL draft rooms.

By CALVIN WATKINS / The Dallas Morning News

Ok, so let's talk about it.

Terence Newman or Kevin Williams if you could do it all over again?

I take Williams all seven days of the week. And I know Newman has been an above average player for a long time. But Williams is a dominate force as a defensive lineman.

I will say this. If Newman had averaged 2 or 3 more INT's each season I would call it even.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

Ok, so let's talk about it.

Terence Newman or Kevin Williams if you could do it all over again?

I take Williams all seven days of the week. And I know Newman has been an above average player for a long time. But Williams is a dominate force as a defensive lineman.

I will say this. If Newman had averaged 2 or 3 more INT's each season I would call it even.

truthfully....and if you look at my history on this topic....I was under the impression Parcells was big on the kid that went #1 overall to the Jets....Dewayne Robertson. I know Parcells was not big on picking Terrance Newman, but I did not not feel like going there in my posts. This is the first I heard he wanted Kevin Williams...but anyway, this validates my point. Parcells was VERY necessary for this orgnization...but lets not act like everything he touched turned to gold. Again, if not for Jerry we would NOT have Demarcus Ware right now. I mean Parcells wanted Spears.....Spears at #11. Spears plays like a 3rd rounder to me. And to think we might have taken him #11 overall!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[InmanRoshi]

truthfully....and if you look at my history on this topic....I was under the impression Parcells was big on the kid that went #1 overall to the Jets....Dewayne Robertson. I know Parcells was not big on picking Terrance Newman, but I did not not feel like going there in my posts. This is the first I heard he wanted Kevin Williams

What? You didn't know Parcells wanted Williams? But I thought you had undisputed FACTS because you had been PAYING ATTENTION (your words, your all caps)


"Facts" = things that are just repeated over and over again on internet messageboards until no one questions it.

The bottomline is you don't know jack what went on in the war-rooms. You don't know who signed off on what. You honestly think Parcells stormed into the warroom and said "We're drafting Bobby Carpenter !!!! I knew his daddy !!!" and Jerry and the entire scouting department just cowered in the corner shaking and said "Yes sir. Anything you say." Please.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

truthfully....and if you look at my history on this topic....I was under the impression Parcells was big on the kid that went #1 overall to the Jets....Dewayne Robertson. I know Parcells was not big on picking Terrance Newman, but I did not not feel like going there in my posts. This is the first I heard he wanted Kevin Williams...but anyway, this validates my point.

Yep, the Kevin Williiams pick is big time revisionist history. At the time it was Robertson without a doubt that he'd have taken if he could've. Kevin Williams back then was a very fast riser who was seen as a late first rounder most of that year but had great workouts and moved up, but they didn't want to take him at #5. Even the Vikes taking him at #9 was seen as maybe too high back then, but they really needed a DT so they did it.

Anyway, when we couldn't move down, we took the best player on our (and pretty much everyone else's) board, which was Newman.

Now I don't doubt that Parcells wanted a big defensive lineman, because he always does. But the idea that he saw the greatness in Kevin Williams when no one else did and that was his number one choice is baloney. But Robertson was a huge bust, and Parcells is a legend, so naturally his mancrush on that player has morphed into him wanting the guy who turned out to be better.

One thing I don't like about Parcells is how he's always selling himself and putting out stories through his media buddies to make himself look good. This is one of those times.

And as big a Newman fan as I am, sure, I'd take Williams. He's an absolute stud.

But you never know how things work out. If we take him, maybe we don't need another NT/DE and we don't take Ratliff, for instance. I'd say things worked out pretty well for us the way they went.

 

[percyhoward]

"Facts" = things that are just repeated over and over again on internet messageboards until no one questions it.

:fact:

 

[Stautner]

Yeah, aside from Larry Allen, I don't recall Houck developing a lot of young offesnsive linemen for us. I seem to recall a lot of Clay Shivers, Derek Kennards, George Hegammen and Solomon Pages. And again, I would probably put Larry Allen in that Jackie Slater/Anthony Munoz/Bruce Matthews category of players who would have been great regardless of who was coaching them. It's not like Larry Allen was great because he was impeccable with his technique and fundamentals (he was great despite his technique and fundamentals). I guess to be fair I have to give him credit for Flozell's first few years of development.

This is a bit unfair because when Houck came the team already had Stepnoski, Newton, Gesek, Gogan, Tuinei and Erik Williams. Donaldson came in when Stepnoski left and the team never missed a beat.

And just as you would put Larry allen in the category of guys who would have been great regardless of the coaches, guys like Soloman Page and Clay Shivers would have sucked regardless of the coach. It's not like those guys were coached up to being good players with other teams after the Cowboys. A lot of poor drafting. Drafting O-linemen has been a sore spot throughout the Jerry Jones era (not saying it's Jerry's fault). We can only muster one quality lineman in the draft about every 4-5 years.

 

[21Savage]

Yep, the Kevin Williiams pick is big time revisionist history. At the time it was Robertson without a doubt that he'd have taken if he could've. Kevin Williams back then was a very fast riser who was seen as a late first rounder most of that year but had great workouts and moved up, but they didn't want to take him at #5. Even the Vikes taking him at #9 was seen as maybe too high back then, but they really needed a DT so they did it.

Anyway, when we couldn't move down, we took the best player on our (and pretty much everyone else's) board, which was Newman.

Now I don't doubt that Parcells wanted a big defensive lineman, because he always does. But the idea that he saw the greatness in Kevin Williams when no one else did and that was his number one choice is baloney. But Robertson was a huge bust, and Parcells is a legend, so naturally his mancrush on that player has morphed into him wanting the guy who turned out to be better.

One thing I don't like about Parcells is how he's always selling himself and putting out stories through his media buddies to make himself look good. This is one of those times.

And as big a Newman fan as I am, sure, I'd take Williams. He's an absolute stud.

But you never know how things work out. If we take him, maybe we don't need another NT/DE and we don't take Ratliff, for instance. I'd say things worked out pretty well for us the way they went.

True talk! Plus draft kevin Williams and put him in that Parcells dinosaur of a 3-4 and we'll be calling him a semi-bust right now alas Spears.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

What? You didn't know Parcells wanted Williams? But I thought you had undisputed FACTS because you had been PAYING ATTENTION (your words, your all caps)


"Facts" = things that are just repeated over and over again on internet messageboards until no one questions it.

The bottomline is you don't know jack what went on in the war-rooms. You don't know who signed off on what. You honestly think Parcells stormed into the warroom and said "We're drafting Bobby Carpenter !!!! I knew his daddy !!!" and Jerry and the entire scouting department just cowered in the corner shaking and said "Yes sir. Anything you say." Please.

you are making a jack*** of yourself. THere are plenty of posters who are providing you with info....NONE of us are in the waroom. So again, we piece together what we can because we PAY ATTENTION!

 

[superpunk]

Frankly I'm amazed that they even allow the Dolphins to still play in the NFL, with the buffoons they have running the organization in Miami.