Bruce Arians calls out your mama

[revospeed]

Absolutely, just make sure you show them the video of vicious smash hits and the few players who have been paralyzed by those hits and
then have them sign a complete waiver of responsibility on the part of the Team and the NFL if they get hurt. The player should then
take out an insurance policy to cover them if they choose to sign that contract to play. They have the money.

Reminds me of that scene in Cinderella Man where the promoter (D-Day from Animal House) makes Jim Braddock watch the film of Max Baer killing two guys in the ring before he allows the fight to go forward.

But in reality, that shouldn't be necessary. You'd have to be pretty dumb to know think that you couldn't be hurt playing football.

Heck, the military isn't forced to show videos of the horrors of war to prospects, instead they make it seem like summer camp with guns.

 

[LittleD]

Reminds me of that scene in Cinderella Man where the promoter (D-Day from Animal House) makes Jim Braddock watch the film of Max Baer killing two guys in the ring before he allows the fight to go forward.

But in reality, that shouldn't be necessary. You'd have to be pretty dumb to know think that you couldn't be hurt playing football.

Heck, the military isn't forced to show videos of the horrors of war to prospects, instead they make it seem like summer camp with guns.

You are right about the Military but, it is extremely hard to even think about suing them. NFL Teams and the NFL have to protect themselves
from all these lawyers looking for easy money and a way to make a name for themselves. I think many of these kids coming into the NFL have
little skills outside sports and without a competent agent would get taken on every detail of the contract they sign. If young guys want to make
the big money in NFL football, they have to understand and accept the risks that come with it.

 

[Longboysfan]

He's somewhat wrong. It's not just moms, it's dads to. I won't let my son play football. Let me first say he doesn't even want to because he's a 12 month a year baseball player. I played football in high school and have friends that coach youth football and I have always thought that no matter what two teams are on the field, there's at least one kid looking to hurt someone and there's usually a lot of adults behind him waiting to congratulate him for doing so. Watching Friday Night Tykes just solidifies my belief. Show after show has adults telling 10 and 11 year olds to go out and knock someone's head off or proclaiming their team is going to punish their opponent and make them hurt. They seem to not realize or care that the other kids are someone else's child. I know football can be a very brutal sport but it doesn't have to be and shouldn't be at the youth level. There is no way I'm putting my kid out there when you've got coaches and parents thinking their kid can earn a college scholarship at age 10 by laying out a kid that weights 40-50 pounds less then they do. I have a lot of friends/dads that feel the same way. A kid on my son's baseball team is the best 9U QB in the area and got knocked out of the championship game with a concussion. They had given the other team their only defeat during the season and the other team responded by purposely going after him on every play and even hitting him numerous times after the play was over. His parents say he will never play again because you just can't trust what others are teaching their kids. I applaud anyone and everyone that loves football and thinks this thinking is overblown and keeps their kids in the game. That means there will always be an NFL to watch but I would not be willing to risk my kid's well being on the football field.

It's not just football.
It's everywhere in all contact sports.

 

[revospeed]

You are right about the Military but, it is extremely hard to even think about suing them. NFL Teams and the NFL have to protect themselves
from all these lawyers looking for easy money and a way to make a name for themselves. I think many of these kids coming into the NFL have
little skills outside sports and without a competent agent would get taken on every detail of the contract they sign. If young guys want to make
the big money in NFL football, they have to understand and accept the risks that come with it.

I agree, but I also think that CTE is a huge boogeyman that Will Smith made seem like if you have CTE, you'll turn into a murdering madman, or some crazy guy and can't function in society if you have it and will ultimately die young. I'm not sure that is necessarily true. There are so many factors when it comes to a person's death, you can't just pin it on the NFL for allowing players to voluntarily play. A lot of former players get dementia, but so do a lot of non players. The only difference is that most non players were not compensated for the risk of dementia. Looking at the people who have been diagnosed with post-mortem CTE, there are a few guys who definitely exhibited strange behavior and died young, but there are some exceptions.

Earl Morrall died at 79. Can we really attribute his death to exclusively to CTE? Same with Lou Creekmur (82), Frank Gifford (84), Lew Carpenter (78), Willie Daniel (77), Cookie Gilchrist (75). Now the media is trying to attach CTE to the cause of Kenny Stabler's (RIP) death. Stabler died of colon cancer. He may have had CTE, but colon cancer caused more harm in his life. Why not try and figure out what caused his colon cancer and go after it/them? If you told me that I could play in the NFL, win championships and MVP award like Morrall and Gifford, but I'd die in my late 70s, I'd take that in a heart beat.

 

[Denim Chicken]

You think this isn't already in place?

You think it is? NFL has just recently hinted at a link between CTE. Their philosophy has been to ignore/deign.

 

[Cowboys22]

You think this isn't already in place?

I know its not because the NFL is being sued left and right over the concussion issue.

 

[Doc50]

I agree, but I also think that CTE is a huge boogeyman that Will Smith made seem like if you have CTE, you'll turn into a murdering madman, or some crazy guy and can't function in society if you have it and will ultimately die young. I'm not sure that is necessarily true. There are so many factors when it comes to a person's death, you can't just pin it on the NFL for allowing players to voluntarily play. A lot of former players get dementia, but so do a lot of non players. The only difference is that most non players were not compensated for the risk of dementia. Looking at the people who have been diagnosed with post-mortem CTE, there are a few guys who definitely exhibited strange behavior and died young, but there are some exceptions.

Earl Morrall died at 79. Can we really attribute his death to exclusively to CTE? Same with Lou Creekmur (82), Frank Gifford (84), Lew Carpenter (78), Willie Daniel (77), Cookie Gilchrist (75). Now the media is trying to attach CTE to the cause of Kenny Stabler's (RIP) death. Stabler died of colon cancer. He may have had CTE, but colon cancer caused more harm in his life. Why not try and figure out what caused his colon cancer and go after it/them? If you told me that I could play in the NFL, win championships and MVP award like Morrall and Gifford, but I'd die in my late 70s, I'd take that in a heart beat.

What we do know is that even tiny concussions cause cumulative effects.

The fact that some are sooner and more profoundly affected or that some may possess a protective mechanism remains to be studied and defined.

It's also clear that the NFL has tried to bury this association with chronic pathology, for obvious reasons.
They should have started doing something about it years ago, like using improved helmet technology with exterior impact absorbing material.

This problem holds true for other sports as well, including soccer.

 

[revospeed]

What we do know is that even tiny concussions cause cumulative effects.

The fact that some are sooner and more profoundly affected or that some may possess a protective mechanism remains to be studied and defined.

It's also clear that the NFL has tried to bury this association with chronic pathology, for obvious reasons.
They should have started doing something about it years ago, like using improved helmet technology with exterior impact absorbing material.

This problem holds true for other sports as well, including soccer.

While the NFL did try and bury some of information regarding concussions, it's pretty tough for NFL players to pull the babe in the woods routine and pretend they had no idea that there was a risk of head injuries and concussions.

Players have been trying experimental helmets for a long time with exterior shells to absorb the hit and protect their head, going back to the 80s and 90s with Mark Kelso and Steve Wallace. Riddell came out with their Revolution helmet in 2001 and there have been several improvements since then.

 

[Hoods]

I know its not because the NFL is being sued left and right over the concussion issue.

That's not how it works. Businesses always get waivers and have all sorts of disclaimers on products and services, but that doesn't make them enforceable (particularly in a situation like this where a person's health and livelihood is at stake). You think the NFL's lawyers haven't already thought about this?

 

[visionary]

Football is a collision sport
We love it but it's slow decline has started
You can slow it down but you can't stop it
You can bet NFL is concerned because they see that trend even if we don't

 

[Cowboys22]

That's not how it works. Businesses always get waivers and have all sorts of disclaimers on products and services, but that doesn't make them enforceable (particularly in a situation like this where a person's health and livelihood is at stake). You think the NFL's lawyers haven't already thought about this?

If players had to sign such a waiver we would know about it. It would have been defense exhibit #1 in the concussion case and discussed at length on ESPN, sports radio, and every message board out there. Since there has been no mention of it anywhere, I think it's safe to conclude there is no such waiver being signed by players before they can become eligible for the draft.

 

[Doc50]

While the NFL did try and bury some of information regarding concussions, it's pretty tough for NFL players to pull the babe in the woods routine and pretend they had no idea that there was a risk of head injuries and concussions.

Players have been trying experimental helmets for a long time with exterior shells to absorb the hit and protect their head, going back to the 80s and 90s with Mark Kelso and Steve Wallace. Riddell came out with their Revolution helmet in 2001 and there have been several improvements since then.

It's true that the history of injuries sustained and how they affect later years is well known. Players expect to have premature arthritis and degenerative joint disease, often requiring joint replacement; they've accepted that risk.

And many players retire a bit earlier than they had planned, just assessing their burden of injuries and deciding at a point in time to stop the level of debility where it is.

But none knew the connection to degenerative brain disease, the horrors experienced by so many of the cases like Seau and Webster.
This is not just normal or premature aging; these guys can't just sit in the rocking chair and enjoy their grandkids.
The misery they experience destroys them and their families. A glorious career is ruined in anguish and shame.

While helmet manufacturers have made advancements in internal padding and the physics of impact absorption and dispersion (see Xenith), none have instituted external crush zones or impact-absorbing material outside the helmet shell.

The NFL really didn't want to acknowledge this connection because it opens a new area of liability.

Further research needs to be done to identify those at-risk individuals, and the league should pay for that.
Of course, this must be done objectively and independently -- not directly supervised by the league.
One might hypothesize that CTE arises in association with concussions and adrenergic steroid use or tobacco use.
Maybe unexpected protectors such as heavy milk consumption or adequate sleep will come to light.

There is still much to be understood about CTE.

But it's time to stop the denial and foot-dragging, and get into the business of saving our game and its athletes.

 

[Hoods]

If players had to sign such a waiver we would know about it. It would have been defense exhibit #1 in the concussion case and discussed at length on ESPN, sports radio, and every message board out there. Since there has been no mention of it anywhere, I think it's safe to conclude there is no such waiver being signed by players before they can become eligible for the draft.

The NFL has the best lawyers in the country; if your local gym makes you sign a waiver (which again, are often not enforceable anyway for many reasons), you don't think the NFL has thought about doing the same? I guarantee you they have something as aggressive as legally permissible and as permissible by the NFLPA (remember, this contract would be highly negotiated). If it was as easy as saying "sign this contract and you abstain the NFL from all liability", it would have been done by now. There is a reason companies have to pay injury settlements and provide disability and it's not because they haven't thought of your idea. (By the way - this has been discussed by the public at lengths.)

 

[revospeed]

It's true that the history of injuries sustained and how they affect later years is well known. Players expect to have premature arthritis and degenerative joint disease, often requiring joint replacement; they've accepted that risk.

And many players retire a bit earlier than they had planned, just assessing their burden of injuries and deciding at a point in time to stop the level of debility where it is.

But none knew the connection to degenerative brain disease, the horrors experienced by so many of the cases like Seau and Webster.
This is not just normal or premature aging; these guys can't just sit in the rocking chair and enjoy their grandkids.
The misery they experience destroys them and their families. A glorious career is ruined in anguish and shame.

While helmet manufacturers have made advancements in internal padding and the physics of impact absorption and dispersion (see Xenith), none have instituted external crush zones or impact-absorbing material outside the helmet shell.

The NFL really didn't want to acknowledge this connection because it opens a new area of liability.

Further research needs to be done to identify those at-risk individuals, and the league should pay for that.
Of course, this must be done objectively and independently -- not directly supervised by the league.
One might hypothesize that CTE arises in association with concussions and adrenergic steroid use or tobacco use.
Maybe unexpected protectors such as heavy milk consumption or adequate sleep will come to light.

There is still much to be understood about CTE.

But it's time to stop the denial and foot-dragging, and get into the business of saving our game and its athletes.

I'll defer to you in regards to the science, Doc. I won't pretend like I understand it. I agree with everything you said. The NFL should help fund research for safer helmets and CTE treatment. I do think that CTE works differently in different players, look at Frank Gifford having affairs with 20 year old stewardesses in his 60s or Earl Morrall, who became mayor or Jack Kemp who was a VP candidate versus how CTE affected Seau. That's something that needs to be researched.

However, I do think that by at least the 1980s, players knew that too many concussions could leave them punch drunk, like old boxers (side note: isn't pugilistic dementia the same thing as CTE?). They knew there was a risk of concussions and they knew that it probably wasn't good for them. Today, I think that if every NFL player were given a lesson on CTE, most of them would come to the same conclusion of, "If I get too many concussions, there will be repercussions in the future". I think in the 1980s, a reasonable person would know that concussions can have long term effects on a person and players get concussions in football. They might not have known about CTE, but there was a consent to the risk.

Also, I think some of the 4,500 former players that joined a CTE-related suit against the NFL might be exaggerating their claims for a money grab. Some players that joined the suit, like Pat White, continued to play football even after joining the suit. I wouldn't think he would have standing. If his alleged injury is that the NFL didn't alert him to the dangers of CTE, it would be a moot point because even when he was alerted to the dangers, he showed that knowledge of CTE didn't effect his decision to play. And that's just one example.

But back to Arians' point about moms. I think that moms are more likely to try and prevent their son from playing than the dad just because most dads who played football up to the high school level are fine and their mentality is, "If I'm fine, he'll be fine". Mothers think in worst case scenarios. I will say that my mother was okay with me playing football, but she was also the one at high school booster club meetings lobbying and politicking for the football team to have the newest, best and safest helmets.

 

[Doc50]

Yeah, there's no question that there are one or more factors that are protective or detrimental in association with long term concussion consequences.

It creates a fertile research environment for discoveries that may influence other areas of neuroscience.

As for Dementia Pugilistica, it has been classified as a subset of CTE, and most football players agree that they would not expect to get hit in the head as often as a boxer, and they assume that they're better protected. Future liability will depend on such things as informed consent and failure to implement changes in equipment that have been shown in studies to be effective.

 

[DandyDon52]

I agree. I think the NFL should make players sign a waiver before becoming eligible for the draft that says they are fully aware of all the risks associated with playing football and waive all rights to sue any team, coach, player, or the league for any injury suffered during the normal course of playing or practicing. No one has a right to play in the NFL. It is a privately owned business which I think has the right to protect itself. They should do everything feasible to limit injury while maintaining the essence of the game but once that is done, you play and make millions at your own risk.

pro ball pays good so that isnt the issue, it is the pee wee leagues, jr high, high school , and college level which will see
a decline in the # of guys wanting to play.
What it will mean is the talent level may be lowered, and less guys to choose from in the lower levels of football.

 

[darthseinfeld]

This was a classic f-bomb-laden rant by Bruce Arians, and I thought it worthy of the Fan Zone because it affects all of us, the game we love, and our sacred Cowboys front and center.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...-cardinals-moms-afraid-let-sons-play-football



He said a whole lot more about how concussions are being wildly over-exaggerated, may be true to an extent, but not his extent.

Still, you can feel a palpable concern from Jerry Jones, Arians, Irsay, and others, who are greatly concerned about the future of football and the pipeline of free talent development from the high schools and colleges.

Football could be going the way of our military, where now only the poorest people with the fewest choices are signing up for the most part.

When I was in the Marines we used to call them "Mothers Of America"

Once someones Mom called their congressman about hazing and got 5 my platoon court martialed at 5 people thrown in the brig for 3 months over a fabrication.

Cost the Marine Corps a several reinlistments