Bryant and Owens

rocyaice said:
I don't know about that one. TO's hands weren't good enough to consider him one of the best. What exactly did TO do that Randy wasn't as good or better than?
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TO was just a better all around receiver. There wasn't a route that TO couldn't run. Moss didn't really go over the middle like TO did. And yet TO was also a huge downfield threat.

To illustrate my point, it it were 3rd and 6, who would you rather have? TO is the obvious answer.

Also, Moss never made a bad QB look great. TO made Donovan McNabb even look good (career passer rating with TO = 96.2 vs. career passer rating without TO = 85.8). Moss, however, would completely disappear without a decent QB.
 
ok we arent really comparing them. but i just saw a video of TOs best cowboy plays. man he was awesome here, took many to the house.

Dez bryant has way better catching ability and is a beast. but TO was a freak, boy he was fast.
 
rocyaice said:
I don't know about that one. TO's hands weren't good enough to consider him one of the best. What exactly did TO do that Randy wasn't as good or better than?
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Randy was a one route guy. TO was a way better all around WR than Moss.
 
LatinMind said:
Randy was a one route guy. TO was a way better all around WR than Moss.
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You can put TO up there with the greats of all time.

The only things that i would put Dez better at is Hands and jumping ability. The rest TO was better. And in TO's prime the margin is bigger. And in TOs prime defenses were allowed to play defense and hit you.
 
Yakuza Rich said:
Owens was about the same size as Dez, but much faster. They were probably the same in terms of getting off the jam. TO was a better route runner as he didn't have that hop out of the gate. Dez has far, far better hands. He's a better blocker and doesn't get as frustrated when he's getting doubled and we can't get the ball to him. Dez is also far, far better in jump ball and closed quarters.

I think both were great after the catch, but went about it in different ways. Owens could blow by the defenders and was a tough guy to bring down with an arm tackle and he could run right thru it. Dez won't run thru the tackler, but will shuck them off.

Even if you took the Owens' attitude out of the equation (and I still don't think he was a problem), I would prefer Dez because of his superior hands. Much more consistent and reliable.





YR
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In spite of all TOs "stuff" .... The dude wanted to win.

We wasted part of Romo's and Wittem's prime and the last couple of years Owens had left. He was good, real good with us. If we would have reeled Romo in and stayed dedicated to running game, ball control we could have stolen one(Super Bowl).

Owens got robbed of a Super Bowl by McNabb "choking" errrrr.... I mean puking

And
the eagles got robbed by patriots cheating!!
 
theogt said:
TO was just a better all around receiver. There wasn't a route that TO couldn't run. Moss didn't really go over the middle like TO did. And yet TO was also a huge downfield threat.

To illustrate my point, it it were 3rd and 6, who would you rather have? TO is the obvious answer.

Also, Moss never made a bad QB look great. TO made Donovan McNabb even look good (career passer rating with TO = 96.2 vs. career passer rating without TO = 85.8). Moss, however, would completely disappear without a decent QB.
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I agree with everything other than the QB thing.

I don't think I'd ever confuse Dante Culpepper with a decent QB.

He sucked.

The only reason he looked good was cause he could throw it up to Moss and it made him look good.
 
theogt said:
TO was just a better all around receiver. There wasn't a route that TO couldn't run. Moss didn't really go over the middle like TO did. And yet TO was also a huge downfield threat.

To illustrate my point, it it were 3rd and 6, who would you rather have? TO is the obvious answer.

Also, Moss never made a bad QB look great. TO made Donovan McNabb even look good (career passer rating with TO = 96.2 vs. career passer rating without TO = 85.8). Moss, however, would completely disappear without a decent QB.
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Don't forget that McNabb was throwing to Pinkston and Freddie Mitchell for awhile, he was surrounded by trash. If you take a star receiver away from a QB I bet you their passer ratings drop.
 
Dale said:
Owens ran like a deer. Great at yards after the catch, particularly on crossing routes and such. Profilic scorer, although he did it differently than Bryant. Not nearly the jump-ball guy Bryant is.

Owens would regularly get 12-15 targets a game. The offense really ran through him, and he'd let you hear about it if he only got, say, 7 looks.
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I think Owens benefited from more quick hitting passes ( slants & crosses). Yes, he was a deep ball threat, but as we have seen that hasn't been part of our attack until recently.
 
Frozen700 said:
10 cent head or not. That title belongs to Moss. No WR was built like him, and could do what he could do. Period
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I think Moss as well, followed by Rice. TO could have been in that conversation if he did things just a bit differently.
 
REDVOLUTION said:
In spite of all TOs "stuff" .... The dude wanted to win.

We wasted part of Romo's and Wittem's prime and the last couple of years Owens had left. He was good, real good with us. If we would have reeled Romo in and stayed dedicated to running game, ball control we could have stolen one(Super Bowl).

Owens got robbed of a Super Bowl by McNabb "choking" errrrr.... I mean puking

And
the eagles got robbed by patriots cheating!!
Click to expand...

I never had a problem with TO outside of him getting duped by Mr. Blue Suit's con game.

To me, Owens is like many great athletes...some that I've been around in my lifetime. If they aren't 'getting the ball' they have no problem if it means they win the game. But, when they lose the game and don't get the ball...that's when they get ticked off. And I can't say I blame them. They are paid because of the abilities and the coaches are more worried about outsmarting the opponent instead of just winning the game.

What I liked about Owens is that he was honest to a fault. I can deal with that fault rather than the guy that acts one way towards you and then says stuff behind your back. That's why I could never buy into Mr. Blue Suit's article....if TO really had a problem with Romo and Witten...he would have made it known because he simply couldn't help himself.





YR
 
BraveHeartFan said:
I agree with everything other than the QB thing.

I don't think I'd ever confuse Dante Culpepper with a decent QB.

He sucked.

The only reason he looked good was cause he could throw it up to Moss and it made him look good.
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In 2004 Culpepper threw for 4700 yds, 39 TDs, 11 INTs, and completed 69.2% of his passes. I don't think he sucked at all, injuries decimated his career but he was very accurate and had a good arm.
 
theogt said:
TO was just a better all around receiver. There wasn't a route that TO couldn't run. Moss didn't really go over the middle like TO did. And yet TO was also a huge downfield threat.

To illustrate my point, it it were 3rd and 6, who would you rather have? TO is the obvious answer.

Also, Moss never made a bad QB look great. TO made Donovan McNabb even look good (career passer rating with TO = 96.2 vs. career passer rating without TO = 85.8). Moss, however, would completely disappear without a decent QB.
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haha, you're kidding right? Where was daunte culpepper without moss? from all pro to out of the the league. where were guys jeff george, gus ferrote without moss? jobless. matt cassel owes randy moss at least HALF of that big contract he got from the chiefs off that one good year in new england. tom brady and randall cunningham just HAPPENED to have the best numbers of their career (by FAR) and lead 2 of the 3 highest scoring offenses ever with who? randy moss.

I think the last point is probably the most salient example of the 'moss effect'. He put up monster numbers, but his teams benefitted enormously from them. With TO, yeah he was good, but he would ***** and whine even when he wasn't open, putting pressure on qbs to FORCE it to him to the detriment of team at times. Romo had a lower qb rating throwing to TO than his overall QB rating. Part of that were TO's drops, another part were all the interceptions Romo accrued from forcing it to TO. Has tony and the dallas offense suffered since he left? not really. have new england ever gotten that big deep threat since moss left? minnesota? no. Oakland was and is always going to be a cesspool
 
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Tenkamenin said:
In 2004 Culpepper threw for 4700 yds, 39 TDs, 11 INTs, and completed 69.2% of his passes. I don't think he sucked at all, injuries decimated his career but he was very accurate and had a good arm.
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Yeah sucked is probably too strong on my part.

He had one really great year and then he was mostly average the rest of the time.

I never cared much for him and I truly believed that having the WR's he had was really the only reason he ever looked any good at all.
 
As terrible a teammate as Owens was, there's a reason he's a legendary WR. He had a great work ethic that he learned from Jerry Rice, he had freakish talent when it came to speed, he could run all the routes, and even if his hands aren't better than Dez's (I've seen him drop some easy ones far too often as well though), Owens' hands weren't bad.

Like others have said, Dez is a more physical WR with amazing leaping ability. I would like him to become a little better with his route running, but he has improved a great deal since coming into the league. That's really all you can as for with a player, to just improve each and every year. I won't count Dez's yards against him, we just spread the ball more than most teams in the league, the fact that Dez gets 80-90 balls a year is incredible.

Owens wins on talent alone, but what separates Dez from Owens is the attitude. Owens, just like Moss, could have been better WRs than Rice (Especially Moss). Sadly, he was and still is an egomaniac that could never build true chemistry with a QB. He talked his way off multiple teams until the day he retired.
 
theogt said:
TO was just a better all around receiver. There wasn't a route that TO couldn't run. Moss didn't really go over the middle like TO did. And yet TO was also a huge downfield threat.

To illustrate my point, it it were 3rd and 6, who would you rather have? TO is the obvious answer.

Also, Moss never made a bad QB look great. TO made Donovan McNabb even look good (career passer rating with TO = 96.2 vs. career passer rating without TO = 85.8). Moss, however, would completely disappear without a decent QB.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute now lol. McNabb was actually a good quarterback in this league. Randy Moss is one of the reasons why Miami passed up Drew Brees and gave Daunte Culpepper a 100 million dollar contract. Moss made Culpepper look all-world.

McNabb was a solid quarterback prior to TO. He was taking James Trash and Stinkston to the playoffs year in and out.

LatinMind said:
Randy was a one route guy. TO was a way better all around WR than Moss.
Click to expand...

He was a one route guy because that's all he had to be lol. No one could stop him on that one route he ran. TO had no hands lol.
 
rocyaice said:
Wait a minute now lol. McNabb was actually a good quarterback in this league. Randy Moss is one of the reasons why Miami passed up Drew Brees and gave Daunte Culpepper a 100 million dollar contract. Moss made Culpepper look all-world.

McNabb was a solid quarterback prior to TO. He was taking James Trash and Stinkston to the playoffs year in and out.



He was a one route guy because that's all he had to be lol. No one could stop him on that one route he ran. TO had no hands lol.
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wonder how Owens basically ranks only behind Jerry Rice is most wr career stats with no hands.
 
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