BTB: FISH on FOOTBALL: A Top-10 X's And O's, Cowboys And Falcons Style

[NewJCowboy]

4. As the guys at ESPN wrote it, Patrick Crayton "just wishes somebody would have told him about his demotion.'' ... Crayton feels he was "in the dark about the change'' ... and Crayton "just feels that, as a six-year veteran, he deserves an explanation.''

Nope. No you don't. One thing about football: Nobody deserves anything. Your explanation, Patrick, came when you showed up to practice this week and took fewer reps. That's your explanation.

 

[BAT]

Actually Wade's San Diego teams were pretty good at it, but he had a much better secondary there.

I just think its more the way this team has problems with basic fundamentals like tackling and stripping footballs, so it does go back to a root problem I have with Wade's coaching. But CL is right there is definitely a luck factor, and we have been anything but lucky the past couple of years.

Actually that is incorrect. Even when Wade was having so much success in San Diego, the secondary was suspect and did not generate an inordinate amount of turnovers. The only decent player in the secondary was Jammer, and he was considered a bust at the time. He is an average to above average player now. Cromartie is the star in that secondary now (who was a backup when Wade was there). Chargers' secondary exploded in turnovers caused in 2007, the year after Wade left to coach the Cowboys due to Cromartie's insertion into the starting lineup.

 

[AdamJT13]

Actually Wade's San Diego teams were pretty good at it, but he had a much better secondary there.

Not at all. His secondary in San Diego was nothing special. When Wade was there, the Chargers had only one year with more than 16 interceptions, and that was largely because of the interceptions by their front seven, not their secondary. Linebacker Donnie Edwards led the team with five interceptions that season. Their front seven had 10 of their 23 interceptions that year. Our front seven has ONE interception in the entire time Wade has been here. (In his three seasons in San Diego, they had 18.)

Wade's secondary had a total of 31 interceptions during his three seasons in San Diego. Ours has 28 with 11 games left in his third season here. In San Diego, two defensive backs reached four interceptions once, and none ever had more than that. In his first two seasons here, he had one defensive back reach four interceptions in both seasons, another with six interceptions one year and another with five one year.

The difference is not in the secondary.

 

[Alexander]

So in doing your research, what coaches have consistently had lots of turnovers year after year?

Teams like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Chicago, Tennessee and Kiffin's Buccaneers were some I have noticed from last season. All five had 20 or more interceptions last year. Dallas on the other hand had only eight. Only Denver and Detroit had fewer. Of course I am talking about interceptions. That is where we are missing the boat. We can cause fumbles and did pretty well last year except we always seemed to muff them at crucial times.

From my impressions (I am no statistical wizard) this is the type of team I am referring to. LeBeau, Kiffin, Schwarz, Lovie Smith/Babich and Johnson usually are right up there. It certainly isn't Phillips' cup of tea as Adam pointed out above.

I think there's a lot of luck in turnovers. Two years ago we were middle of the pack as far as turnovers IIRC.

And since Campo has been here, we have been at the bottom. That is why quite a few of us wanted Dennis Thurman in the worst way. His secondaries in Baltimore have always been extremely opportunistic.

I've pointed out before that in 2007, the Steelers and Eagles were at the bottom of the list in turnovers forced, and few would take issue with LeBeau or Jim Johnson.

The Steelers traditionally have had a lot. 2007 is the year I believe Polamalu missed at least a quarter of the season. I think that can have an impact. And 2007 was a bit of an outlier, if I am not mistaken.

 

[AdamJT13]

The Steelers traditionally have had a lot. 2007 is the year I believe Polamalu missed at least a quarter of the season. I think that can have an impact. And 2007 was a bit of an outlier, if I am not mistaken.

The Steelers' interceptions, by season, from 1998 to 2008 --

16
14
17
16
19
14
19
15
20
11
20
Total: 181
Average: 16.45

And ours, for the same seasons --

14
24
16
9
19
13
13
15
18
19
8
Total: 168
Average: 15.27

The difference is about one interception per season, with almost all of that difference coming from last season. This season, Pittsburgh has only four interceptions in six games, so they're on pace for about 11.

 

[Randy White]

listening to the circuit daily radio talk shows ( Norm, Irvin, GAC ), reading the press columns, and different board, I kept seeing the same theme over and over again:

we lack turnovers.

Well, I figured that since everybody is saying, pretty much, the same thing, the key to success must be creating turnovers. However, being the fantasy football fanatic that I am, I remember that during one of my drafts, I chose not to select a defense until the last couple of rounds because while researching for defenses and special teams, I found out that last season the Chargers' defense, who not many players think highly of, was amongst the leaders in turnovers last season. I decided I was going to pick them and since I knew most everybody else wouldn't be interested, I wasn't worried when the likes of Chicago and Baltimore were going off the board in the 6th, and 7th round.

ANyways, that got me thinking about the consensus thinking about turnovers, so I decided to take a look at the current turnover leaders in the NFL. Interesting what I found:

Top 5 interception leading defenses:

1) Saints = 11 ( 5-0 )
2) Beagirls = 11 ( 3-2 )
3) Packers = 10 ( 3-2 )
4) Bills = 10 ( 2-4 )
5) Ravens = 7 ( 3-3 )

Combined record ( 16 - 11 )

Bottom 5:

7 teams tied with 3
Cowboys = 2 ( 3-2 )

Top 5 fumble recovered defenses

Patriots = 8 ( 4-2 )
Texans = 8 ( 3-3 )
Browns = 8 ( 1-5 )
Falcons = 7 ( 4-1 )

Combined Record ( 12 - 11 )

* 3 teams tied with 6 fumble recovered for 5th place



Bottom 5:

21 teams share the bottom 5 with between 1 - 4 fumble recoveries.


What this tells me is that, so far, defenses creating turnovers are not having the major impact most people think they do.

NOT creating turnovers is, by far, more important:


Net turnover leaders:

Saints = 9 ( 5-0 )
Patriots = 8 ( 4-2)
Vikings = 8 ( 6-0 )
Packers = 8 ( 3-2 )
Broncos = 7 ( 6-0 )
Beagirls = 7 ( 3-2 )

Combined record = 27 - 6

( I looked at the leaders in giveaway fumbles and INTs, and most of the league are bunched up between 1 and 3, so I'm going by net )

Bottom line:

You don't necessarily need to create turnovers. Just don't turn the ball over yourself and don't kill yourself with penalties.

 

[wileedog]

Actually that is incorrect.

The difference is not in the secondary.

I stand corrected. For some reason I was thinking they had to have been getting better safety play then we have the past couple of years and I thought Cromartie went on his pic binge in 2006, not 2007.

Mea culpa