BTB: No way the Dallas Cowboys defense is a top 10 unit. Or is it?

[CATCH17]

My guess is that they will come out of the gates looking hopeless and by the end of the year they will be a pretty good defense.

I expect a lot of missed tackles early on by our DB's.

 

[gmoney112]

I actually like reading homer posts, it beats taking a crap all over our team which MSM does constantly, often irrationally.

Our defense was below average in just about every per drive stat, stats usually line up with what you actually see when you understand what numbers mean.

We should be bullish on the defense, comparatively to years past at least. By the end of the year, I expect us to be better than league average with potential to be top 10. If we can stop giving up an astronomical QB rating, we'll see the other stats adjust accordingly, and the defense will look much better on the field.

 

[jday]

My guess is that they will come out of the gates looking hopeless and by the end of the year they will be a pretty good defense.

I expect a lot of missed tackles early on by our DB's.

That seems like a fair expectation, all things considered.

 

[jday]

I actually like reading homer posts, it beats taking a crap all over our team which MSM does constantly, often irrationally.

Our defense was below average in just about every per drive stat, stats usually line up with what you actually see when you understand what numbers mean.

We should be bullish on the defense, comparatively to years past at least. By the end of the year, I expect us to be better than league average with potential to be top 10. If we can stop giving up an astronomical QB rating, we'll see the other stats adjust accordingly, and the defense will look much better on the field.

The problem for the Cowboys is who they are facing this year. There are several good QB's on their schedule, so I doubt the secondary looks very good from a statistical point of view by season end. But like I said earlier, I do expect an improvement in both turnovers and sacks, so those stats will likely be hidden behind some pretty convincing wins against pretty good competition. Come playoffs, however, should the Cowboys lose, those stats will fuel about 100 articles how certain analyst knew all along they would fail because of it.

 

[jday]

Fair enough, J, I'll check it out. I read about 3 or 4 articles straight from their site a week. I'll read this one, brother

I think you know me well enough by now to know I wouldn't steer you in the wrong direction....intentionally anyway...lol.

 

[Idgit]

For the upcoming season, it would probably be better to evaluate this defense every four games; divide the season in quarters. Because I expect they'll struggle early on; especially with all the new moving parts and rookies involved. However, as the season progresses, there could be a significant and clear turnaround as this defense starts to gel...and that is especially the case if Jaylon turns out to be an exact replica of the myth.
So they may take a step back in big plays allowed; rookie mistakes happen. But at the same time, I could also see them having a marked increase in both turnovers and sacks. Either way, I'm expecting good enough for playoff contention. From there, if we can catch some luck in the health department and this defense gels like I expect to by Thanksgiving, we could be setup for one hell of a run in the postseason.

Yeah, if I were to guess, I'd say we're going to struggle getting to the QB early on, between the suspensions, adding two young players to the DL rotation, working in Smith. On the back end, we'll play more man coverage early on than we intend to do the whole year. So maybe we see tighter coverage (the guys they brought in call all play man well), but more big plays given up. Gradually, we'll get better with the games up front and with playing zone behind and we'll hopefully get a mix of bigger plays (takeaways) in with the blown coverages in those middle-quarter of the season segments.

But by the end of the year, hopefully we're coming on and playing tighter coverage with everybody understanding their zone responsibility. If Jaylon can get back in his drops from the MIKE better than Hitchens can, that's another plus (though I don't know if he can or not). Making QBs get the ball over the LBs and in front of the Ss more often would be nice to see.

We play so much nickel and dime. Now, once they come up to speed in zone, we'll have a mix where the DBs are a lot more versatile than we had before. We've got, what, 5 guys who can man cover in the slot? Jones and Awuzie both have range and can both play CB and high S. Once we get it all down, we'll be able to disguise coverages a lot better than we could when we had guys like Church and Carr back there who were pretty good at what they did, but really limited in terms of where we could play them. It should be fun to see.

 

[CATCH17]

That seems like a fair expectation, all things considered.

There is just too much youth on the defense for them not to struggle some out of the gate.


I'm sure Cowboyszone will freak out because it won't look much better then last year early on but I've been a fan of football for too long to not consider how a team can progress or even regress from September to December.


It being such a young group I expect to see some blown assignments and missed tackles in the secondary.


Our offense is such a machine though that they will do a good job hiding the defense just like they did a year ago.

We need to be good in the Points Allowed stat again.

 

[jday]

Yeah, if I were to guess, I'd say we're going to struggle getting to the QB early on, between the suspensions, adding two young players to the DL rotation, working in Smith. On the back end, we'll play more man coverage early on than we intend to do the whole year. So maybe we see tighter coverage (the guys they brought in call all play man well), but more big plays given up. Gradually, we'll get better with the games up front and with playing zone behind and we'll hopefully get a mix of bigger plays (takeaways) in with the blown coverages in those middle-quarter of the season segments.

But by the end of the year, hopefully we're coming on and playing tighter coverage with everybody understanding their zone responsibility. If Jaylon can get back in his drops from the MIKE better than Hitchens can, that's another plus (though I don't know if he can or not). Making QBs get the ball over the LBs and in front of the Ss more often would be nice to see.

We play so much nickel and dime. Now, once they come up to speed in zone, we'll have a mix where the DBs are a lot more versatile than we had before. We've got, what, 5 guys who can man cover in the slot? Jones and Awuzie both have range and can both play CB and high S. Once we get it all down, we'll be able to disguise coverages a lot better than we could when we had guys like Church and Carr back there who were pretty good at what they did, but really limited in terms of where we could play them. It should be fun to see.

Excellent break-down of the moving parts and the limitation former Cowboys created as a result of their conflicting specialties. Marinelli prefers running zone and Carr/Claiborne were predominantly man corners.

I think you may be correct in your assumption of how this season will evolve. Marinelli may be handcuffed to running alot more man than he likes early on but as the season progresses, with the type of talent they acquired paired with the talent they already have, that secondary is extremely flexible making it difficult for opposing offenses to create mismatches.

Cannot wait to see it in action!

 

[Idgit]

Excellent break-down of the moving parts and the limitation former Cowboys created as a result of their conflicting specialties. Marinelli prefers running zone and Carr/Claiborne were predominantly man corners.

I think you may be correct in your assumption of how this season will evolve. Marinelli may be handcuffed to running alot more man than he likes early on but as the season progresses, with the type of talent they acquired paired with the talent they already have, that secondary is extremely flexible making it difficult for opposing offenses to create mismatches.

Cannot wait to see it in action!

Yeah. One of the things I'm hoping to hear in camp is everybody being amazed at how quickly Awuzie picks up the defense. If we get that, and we get stories about Lewis covering the vets in the slot and frustrating them in practices, we're going to be in great shape. If not, it'll be a longer slog, but hopefully we're getting there at the end of the year, like we're both saying.

I'm really bummed we're losing Damien Wilson. He's a got so much range from that SAM position. I was counting on him to make 3rd downs tough on everybody. It seemed like we were getting comfortable bringing pressure with the DBs by the end of the season last year. It would have been fun to see how much more we might do that with the better disguised coverages. I think we'll be in a lot more 3rd-and-manageables, though, if it's Wilber at SAM. He's an ok player for a part-time starting position, but he's not a special athlete or anything.

 

[Sydla]

Wilson is an underrated potential loss IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

Right now hard to say what we have defensively. I like the young prospects the Cowboys have but they have much to prove before they get any respect as a unit.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

So BTB is bullish on the Cowboys defense? Color me not-surprised.

Not directed at you J.

I hate these kind of hot takes.

Why don't you share what part of the article you disagree with. The article at least tries to have a reasoned analysis of our scheme and what it's goals are.

One would think from your post that it's nothing but exclamation marks and pelvic thrusts.

 

[jday]

I hate these kind of hot takes.

Why don't you share what part of the article you disagree with. The article at least tries to have a reasoned analysis of our scheme and what it's goals are.

One would think from your post that it's nothing but exclamation marks and pelvic thrusts.

I can't fault Asthma...BTB does have that reputation after all. It just so happens this particular article didn't follow that trend.

 

[diefree666]

For all the excuses the D did not make the stop when they really had to when it really counted.

That aside the new talent gives me hope; we pretty much maxed out what we were going to get with the secondary of last year.

pass rush- I think circumstances made it look better than it actually was; same with the points allowed stat.

I do believe by the end of this year we could have a legitimate top 10 D.

 

[plasticman]

It's a top ten defense if it is a top ten defense.

the real question is, how do you determine a defense's ranking among other defenses in the NFL?

It seems as though the majority of people, fans and journalists, tend to use the opponent's offensive yardage as a barometer, However, last I checked, it's the team with the most points that win. Last season the Cowboys were ranked #5 in fewest opponent points, therefore, they were a top 5 team in that regard.

However, we all know it's not that simple. How much impact did the offense have on that since they may have forced the opponent into taking risks late in the game to catch up? Did the defense contribute to positive field position as the result of turnovers.

Finally, when it came to taking a stand with the game, or even the season, on the line, did they come through with a defensive stand?

All I know was the Cowboys had a real chance to get to the NFC championship game if they could make it to overtime in last seasons divisional game against the Packers. After trailing by 18 points the offense finally caught up with 35 seconds left in the game.....35 seconds.

Any team in the top 20 of a 32 team league should be able to prevent an opponent from scoring with only 35 seconds left, especially with absolutely everything on the line.

In the end, who cares what "ranking" they have. The most successful defense is the one that helped the whole team win the Super Bowl regardless of how much credit they deserve. At some point they had to do something pretty important for that to happen.

 

[Doomsday101]

It's a top ten defense if it is a top ten defense.

the real question is, how do you determine a defense's ranking among other defenses in the NFL?

It seems as though the majority of people, fans and journalists, tend to use the opponent's offensive yardage as a barometer, However, last I checked, it's the team with the most points that win. Last season the Cowboys were ranked #5 in fewest opponent points, therefore, they were a top 5 team in that regard.

However, we all know it's not that simple. How much impact did the offense have on that since they may have forced the opponent into taking risks late in the game to catch up? Did the defense contribute to positive field position as the result of turnovers.

Finally, when it came to taking a stand with the game, or even the season, on the line, did they come through with a defensive stand?

All I know was the Cowboys had a real chance to get to the NFC championship game if they could make it to overtime in last seasons divisional game against the Packers. After trailing by 18 points the offense finally caught up with 35 seconds left in the game.....35 seconds.

Any team in the top 20 of a 32 team league should be able to prevent an opponent from scoring with only 35 seconds left, especially with absolutely everything on the line.

In the end, who cares what "ranking" they have. The most successful defense is the one that helped the whole team win the Super Bowl regardless of how much credit they deserve. At some point they had to do something pretty important for that to happen.

For me it has less to do with yardage allowed than it does points allowed, take away and creating negative plays (sacks, plays for loss yardage) all the top defenses will excel at doing these things

 

[jday]

It's a top ten defense if it is a top ten defense.

the real question is, how do you determine a defense's ranking among other defenses in the NFL?

It seems as though the majority of people, fans and journalists, tend to use the opponent's offensive yardage as a barometer, However, last I checked, it's the team with the most points that win. Last season the Cowboys were ranked #5 in fewest opponent points, therefore, they were a top 5 team in that regard.

However, we all know it's not that simple. How much impact did the offense have on that since they may have forced the opponent into taking risks late in the game to catch up? Did the defense contribute to positive field position as the result of turnovers.

Finally, when it came to taking a stand with the game, or even the season, on the line, did they come through with a defensive stand?

All I know was the Cowboys had a real chance to get to the NFC championship game if they could make it to overtime in last seasons divisional game against the Packers. After trailing by 18 points the offense finally caught up with 35 seconds left in the game.....35 seconds.

Any team in the top 20 of a 32 team league should be able to prevent an opponent from scoring with only 35 seconds left, especially with absolutely everything on the line.

In the end, who cares what "ranking" they have. The most successful defense is the one that helped the whole team win the Super Bowl regardless of how much credit they deserve. At some point they had to do something pretty important for that to happen.

I 100% understand what your saying. But that is essentially what everybody does when anyone attempts to give this Cowboys defense any credit whatsoever...they bring up the game against the Packers in the playoffs. And here's my biggest issue with people doing that: Had the official caught the blatant hold (tackle) against David Irving right before Aaron Rogers threw the ball that would set up the game winning field goal, we probably would not be having this conversation now.

But I hate bringing that up, because then most people respond with something resembling, "Well, they shouldn't have allowed the game to be that close in the first place." But it was and it ended that way and it shouldn't have because the officials did in fact miss a hold. And then the debate moves to all the games the Cowboys have won because of a missed call. And by the end of all this back and forth neither one of us have changed our minds...if anything we walk away from the conversation more confused.

So in an effort to clear the proverbial fog that surrounds this issue, I will just simply say this: The Cowboys defense is gradually improving under Marinelli...at the end of the day if we get a little better every year despite the lack of top tier talent, we fans have no room to complain whatsoever.

 

[phildadon86]

There is just too much youth on the defense for them not to struggle some out of the gate.


I'm sure Cowboyszone will freak out because it won't look much better then last year early on but I've been a fan of football for too long to not consider how a team can progress or even regress from September to December.


It being such a young group I expect to see some blown assignments and missed tackles in the secondary.


Our offense is such a machine though that they will do a good job hiding the defense just like they did a year ago.

We need to be good in the Points Allowed stat again.

What I am curious to see though is, how well these kids are coached. I mean, look at Anthony Brown. I mean yea he had some blown coverages, but nothing close to what a normal rookie at his draft position has. And one of the big ones was on a trick play. Cheeto is a student of the game, so I am less worried about him than Lewis. But even Lewis is a smart kid. Its going to be interesting and i dont think these kids are being given enough credit.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

So BTB is bullish on the Cowboys defense? Color me not-surprised.

Not directed at you J.

I don't consider BTB quality Cowboys reading. I can write that stuff myself. Heck, Jday writes better stuff than BTB, and those other fan websites/blogs. There is only so much Boys sunshine-up-the-bum talk I can take.

 

[GhostOfPelluer]

The defense is such a wild card this season with all the youth and turnover in the secondary. Nothing would shock me. I think the youth is more talented than what we lost. I also think we had some borderline career years last year from Wilcox, Claiborne (when healthy) and even Church. We could have upgrades in their replacements and still see a dip in production this first year. I also expect Byron Jones to take the next step from rock solid to budding star. But that's not a given.

I know one thing. If Lee goes down, all bets are off. He's the most irreplaceable non-QB on the team right now.

I could see the defense ranking anywhere from 5 to 25 and make an argument to support it right now. I expect we'll see stretches throughout the season where they play horrid and stretches where they play lights out. I hope Zeke can pull his enormous melon out of his derriere long enough to help the O stay top notch. It could be pretty average if McFadden/Morris have to play large roles.