BTB on Livings cap hit

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,711
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
That is a lot of money for a guy who was JAG

They could have given Carl Nicks 47.5M. He was on IR last season and is expected to be out for game 1 of this season.

Livings was injured most of last season and played next to the worst Center in Cowboys history.
 

burmafrd

Well-Known Member
Messages
43,820
Reaction score
3,379
They could have given Carl Nicks 47.5M. He was on IR last season and is expected to be out for game 1 of this season.

Livings was injured most of last season and played next to the worst Center in Cowboys history.

and once again the fallacy that because one player got injured in one place he automatically gets injured elsewhere
 

MichaelWinicki

"You want some?"
Staff member
Messages
47,997
Reaction score
27,917
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
and once again the fallacy that because one player got injured in one place he automatically gets injured elsewhere

No one says he doesn't either.

If a guy starts breaking down, he starts breaking down... no matter the color of the uniform.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
I think the argument is that he shouldn't have been paid the way he was being paid to begin with.

Eitherway, the cap may increase but that's still 2mil we can't use to extend or add a guy in what is going to be another tight cap situation. I'm not sure how anyone can justify paying Nate Livings over 5mil for one year of sub-par service, it was clearly a bad decision.

No, it wasn't a bad decision.
It hasn't turned out well for us (though if Livings end up back here and starting half a season that might change) but it was a fair decision.
It was a low risk move that gave us a mediocre starting OG last year(which happened to be the best of the 3 interior OL for 10 weeks).

Paying Nicks 50m would have been the bad move because of all the risk attached.

Miles who is paid a small fortune but always hurt has certainly been a bigger miss and more questionable contract.

5m guaranteed for a vet walk in start at any position is about the cost of doing business. They don't always work and aren't always values but they aren't 'bad' decisions.
 

TheCount

Pixel Pusher
Messages
25,523
Reaction score
8,849
No, it wasn't a bad decision.
It hasn't turned out well for us (though if Livings end up back here and starting half a season that might change) but it was a fair decision.
It was a low risk move that gave us a mediocre starting OG last year(which happened to be the best of the 3 interior OL for 10 weeks).

Paying Nicks 50m would have been the bad move because of all the risk attached.

Miles who is paid a small fortune but always hurt has certainly been a bigger miss and more questionable contract.

5m guaranteed for a vet walk in start at any position is about the cost of doing business. They don't always work and aren't always values but they aren't 'bad' decisions.

I'll stick with bad decision. I don't think the ghost of Carl Nicks or Miles Austin is enough of an argument to raise "bad" to "fair", I don't believe in bogeymen.

Even if Livings had stuck around 2 or 3 years, he was a bad player coming in and a bad player going out. The only reason he landed in Dallas is because we scraped the bottom of the barrel and surprise, surprise, we can up with sludge.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
I'll stick with bad decision. I don't think the ghost of Carl Nicks or Miles Austin is enough of an argument to raise "bad" to "fair", I don't believe in bogeymen.

Even if Livings had stuck around 2 or 3 years, he was a bad player coming in and a bad player going out. The only reason he landed in Dallas is because we scraped the bottom of the barrel and surprise, surprise, we can up with sludge.

That's simply not true. Livings had started 32 straight games for one of the top 5 OLs in football. He came in here and started 16 more.
He wasn't close to garbage in.
He was a mediocre starter, but a starter nonetheless and vastly better than David Arkin, Nagy or other spares we had in place already.

We didn't immediately jump to plus at that position so you (and many others) cry.
But if we had of signed Carl Nicks for 50m we'd have been far worse as a team.
Worse because he ended up out and worse and we'd have had to play a back up that is below Livings and worse because we'd have eaten twice as much in cap hit year 1 and 2.
With benefit of hindsight we know what the ACTUAL players have done.
Had we drafted DeCastro 2 years ago he would have played 4, starting 3 games last year.
Had we signed Carl Nicks he wouldn't have played for us yet.
But Livings STARTED 16 games for us.

Add in Cooper's IR stint for this season and virtually every suggested move for Dallas at OG would have turned out worse than what Livings did.
That means not a bad decision.

The logic isn't complicated.
Low risk signing, low (but 16 game starter) return.
It's a wash at worst.

People cry because they don't like the results but their own suggestions haven't fared any better which would suggest people shut up but of course they won't.
Why waste a perfectly good excuse to cry.
 

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,684
Reaction score
12,394
I think the argument is that he shouldn't have been paid the way he was being paid to begin with.

Eitherway, the cap may increase but that's still 2mil we can't use to extend or add a guy in what is going to be another tight cap situation. I'm not sure how anyone can justify paying Nate Livings over 5mil for one year of sub-par service, it was clearly a bad decision.

That's clear. However other teams were bidding on him too. No knee injury and the deal looks better
 

TheCount

Pixel Pusher
Messages
25,523
Reaction score
8,849
That's simply not true. Livings had started 32 straight games for one of the top 5 OLs in football. He came in here and started 16 more.
He wasn't close to garbage in.
He was a mediocre starter, but a starter nonetheless and vastly better than David Arkin, Nagy or other spares we had in place already.

We didn't immediately jump to plus at that position so you (and many others) cry.
But if we had of signed Carl Nicks for 50m we'd have been far worse as a team.
Worse because he ended up out and worse and we'd have had to play a back up that is below Livings and worse because we'd have eaten twice as much in cap hit year 1 and 2.
With benefit of hindsight we know what the ACTUAL players have done.
Had we drafted DeCastro 2 years ago he would have played 4, starting 3 games last year.
Had we signed Carl Nicks he wouldn't have played for us yet.
But Livings STARTED 16 games for us.

Add in Cooper's IR stint for this season and virtually every suggested move for Dallas at OG would have turned out worse than what Livings did.
That means not a bad decision.

The logic isn't complicated.
Low risk signing, low (but 16 game starter) return.
It's a wash at worst.

People cry because they don't like the results but their own suggestions haven't fared any better which would suggest people shut up but of course they won't.
Why waste a perfectly good excuse to cry.

Ah, I get it. I disagree with you, so I'm crying. Grow up and learn to have an adult conversation with someone that disagrees with you and I'll be glad to continue what WAS an interesting conversation.
 

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
46,580
Reaction score
46,004
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
That's simply not true. Livings had started 32 straight games for one of the top 5 OLs in football. He came in here and started 16 more.
He wasn't close to garbage in.
He was a mediocre starter, but a starter nonetheless and vastly better than David Arkin, Nagy or other spares we had in place already.

We didn't immediately jump to plus at that position so you (and many others) cry.
But if we had of signed Carl Nicks for 50m we'd have been far worse as a team.
Worse because he ended up out and worse and we'd have had to play a back up that is below Livings and worse because we'd have eaten twice as much in cap hit year 1 and 2.
With benefit of hindsight we know what the ACTUAL players have done.
Had we drafted DeCastro 2 years ago he would have played 4, starting 3 games last year.
Had we signed Carl Nicks he wouldn't have played for us yet.
But Livings STARTED 16 games for us.

Add in Cooper's IR stint for this season and virtually every suggested move for Dallas at OG would have turned out worse than what Livings did.
That means not a bad decision.

The logic isn't complicated.
Low risk signing, low (but 16 game starter) return.
It's a wash at worst.

People cry because they don't like the results but their own suggestions haven't fared any better which would suggest people shut up but of course they won't.
Why waste a perfectly good excuse to cry.

Livings was a very poor pickup by the Cowboys. As cheap as he was, he was still overpaid. Saying he was our best OL last year isn't a compliment as our OL was one of the worst in the NFL last year.
 
Top