BTB: TE Schultz is starting to show his potential

[QuincyCarterEra]

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Says everyone who knows that Dalton Schultz isn't a great athlete.

Yikes

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

After reading the thread I think we all recognize that Future knows he was/is wrong. We should move on and not all pile on him.

 

[Future]

I doubt he is going to be a gamebreaker either, but you are making a nonsensical argument because nobody has suggested he will be a game breaker. You are ridiculously equating the words "showing his potential" with "something special" and "gamebreaker", and doing so is as ridiculous as it is illogical.

Before the last 2 games Schultz had 7 receptions all year, and in the last 2 games he has doubled that. Accordingly, potential hadn't been shown until the last 2 weeks, and that was the basis of LovinitAll's comments. You somehow ridiculously twisted his words into meaning something they did not mean, and fabricated a nonsensical argument based on what I can only assume is a silly agenda to discredit a positive comment about a player.

I'm not doing that at all. Not even close. I'm saying that he's already a fine player, and is going to continue to be a fineplayer. His potential is the same today as it was 6 weeks ago, he's not really showing anything new, just had more opportunities to catch the ball.

Again, I will ask you what you think he can be. Who do you look at as his ceiling? More than that, using your own scale, who are the players that are Average - Solid - Good - Very Good, and what is the difference that each of them makes on a game-to-game basis? And then, what is the difference they are making that Schultz isn't over the last 2 weeks, and how will Schultz impact games in ways that they don't?

If you can't answer those questions, you're making my point for me. You keep waxing poetic b/c you didn't like my answer, about but refuse to use any real examples to qualify anything. It's not 1990, TEs who get drafted are either NFL ready (Swaim, Schultz), or projects with big receiving upside potential (Rico, Esco). The league just does not have TEs who get drafted, take 3 years to develop, and turn into something they weren't as rookies. Yes, they can refine their games, sure. But the only TEs who aren't easily replaceable are dynamic receivers and, in some cases, great blockers. The league is full of average TEs, and that's why they rarely get paid past their rookie deals unless they catch a lot of TDs - when that happens, the contracts quickly become a problem (Brate, Barnidge).

 

[Future]

After reading the thread I think we all recognize that Future knows he was/is wrong. We should move on and not all pile on him.

No I don't think I am.

Someone tell me what Schultz is going to turn into. Nobody is doing that. It's not piling on, it's an echo chamber.

 

[iceberg]

I just see a dime a dozen guy.

Jarwin has looked the best imo but none of them are players the defense should worry about.

well none of our WR's look that good consistently. cooper has done the best i suppose but even then he can come and go. is that him and every other WR/TE or is it dak? the system?

before cooper no "pass catcher" on the team was really worth a flip as far as not being a "dime a dozen" guy.

 

[Future]

1. If you're playing in the NFL, you're a good athlete.
2. You don't know what Rico can be after years, yet you know what Schultz can be after 11 games? Oh, you mean because Rico doesn't have a college reel? Back to my very first point: Even WITH a college reel, you can't determine a player's upside.

Didn't like the QB comparison? Here's another 6th rounder that isn't a QB:

'Lacks size. Not tall and does not possess enough bulk at this time. Needs to add strength to more effectively beat press coverage and battled for the ball in the air. Route running skills could use some refinement. Needs to become more consistent catching the ball in a crowd.'

That's Antonio Brown.

Players develop.

Rico and Schultz is not apples to apples, b/c they weren't drafted for the same thing. You can't determine an upside, but you can guess at it. That's how NFL drafting works. Schultz wasn't drafted b/c they thought he was going to be Gronk lol.

TEs don't. Comparing Schultz to Brown is just as ridiculous as comparing him to Brady. Find a TE drafted after 2010 who was undersized, slow, and weak and developed into anything better than what Schultz is now. It does not happen in the NFL.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

No I don't think I am.

Someone tell me what Schultz is going to turn into. Nobody is doing that. It's not piling on, it's an echo chamber.

Nobody knows what he will turn into.

I wasn't high on him, so my answer for who I think he will be will be different than those who loved him as a prospect.

Right now his ceiling is best TE ever and his floor is not making it through his rookie contract. We simply have no clue One of his top athletic comps is Hunter Henry who has been extremely productive in a short period of time.

 

[QuincyCarterEra]

No I don't think I am.

Someone tell me what Schultz is going to turn into. Nobody is doing that. It's not piling on, it's an echo chamber.

Ten different people can tell you what theyll think he'll become.

No matter how many times you ask it, it doesnt xhange the fact you claimed a 23 year old rookie TE with less than 300 snaps has hit his ceiling.

That's a very unintelligent deduction.

1. Players improve with age due to their body hitting it's prime
2. Players improve from increased snaps because they learn the nuances of the game and get reps in on areas of improvement. They learn the soft spots of zone defenses.
3. Players improve when they create a rapport with their teammates and know their tendencies

And it's ironic you said "he's hit his ceiling the only things he can improve is blocking and....." you literally just contradicted yourself. If a player has hit their ceiling they can't improve.

So yes you were wrong and I hope we all recognize that and move on.

 

[Future]

Nobody knows what he will turn into.

I wasn't high on him, so my answer for who I think he will be will be different than those who loved him as a prospect.

Right now his ceiling is best TE ever and his floor is not making it through his rookie contract. We simply have no clue One of his top athletic comps is Hunter Henry who has been extremely productive in a short period of time.

So basically you have no point. You're disagreeing and can't back it up.

If you weren't high on him, then you cannot think his ceiling is best TE ever. You think every drafted player has the ceiling of best ever? lol. Ok, and Hunter Henry is the same player now he was when he was drafted. I already said that Schultz could catch a lot of balls, depending on the system, but he can do that now.

 

[Future]

Ten different people can tell you what theyll think he'll become.

No matter how many times you ask it, it doesnt xhange the fact you claimed a 23 year old rookie TE with less than 300 snaps has hit his ceiling.

That's a very unintelligent deduction.

1. Players improve with age due to their body hitting it's prime
2. Players improve from increased snaps because they learn the nuances of the game and get reps in on areas of improvement. They learn the soft spots of zone defenses.
3. Players improve when they create a rapport with their teammates and know their tendencies

And it's ironic you said "he's hit his ceiling the only things he can improve is blocking and....." you literally just contradicted yourself. If a player has hit their ceiling they can't improve.

So yes you were wrong and I hope we all recognize that and move on.

Ten different people are thinking that its the 1990s.

None of those things are true for TEs like Schultz.

Idiot, I said he hit his ceiling in terms of the type of player he can be. The ceiling that he's at is impact game-to-game. Don't give me this "unintelligent deduction" nonsense and then misquote me.

 

[OmerV]

I'm not doing that at all. Not even close. I'm saying that he's already a fine player, and is going to continue to be a fineplayer. His potential is the same today as it was 6 weeks ago, he's not really showing anything new, just had more opportunities to catch the ball.

Again, I will ask you what you think he can be. Who do you look at as his ceiling? More than that, using your own scale, who are the players that are Average - Solid - Good - Very Good, and what is the difference that each of them makes on a game-to-game basis? And then, what is the difference they are making that Schultz isn't over the last 2 weeks, and how will Schultz impact games in ways that they don't?

If you can't answer those questions, you're making my point for me. You keep waxing poetic b/c you didn't like my answer, about but refuse to use any real examples to qualify anything. It's not 1990, TEs who get drafted are either NFL ready (Swaim, Schultz), or projects with big receiving upside potential (Rico, Esco). The league just does not have TEs who get drafted, take 3 years to develop, and turn into something they weren't as rookies. Yes, they can refine their games, sure. But the only TEs who aren't easily replaceable are dynamic receivers and, in some cases, great blockers. The league is full of average TEs, and that's why they rarely get paid past their rookie deals unless they catch a lot of TDs - when that happens, the contracts quickly become a problem (Brate, Barnidge).

Again, read LovinitAll's words - he said Schultz was just now SHOWING his potential. 6 weeks ago, and even 3 weeks ago, he was not showing his potential, largely because he was getting very little opportunity, therefore what LovinitAll said is correct - Schultz was not showing his potential before, but is now. So, again, you fabricated an argument based on something he did not say rather than respond logically based on what he did say.

And, again, your argument about what I think his ceiling can be is irrelevant because it in no way contradicts or even applies to what LovinitAll or myself have said, and also because it's incredibly unlikely he has reached that ceiling in just 14 catches in his rookie year as you have ridiculously indicated.

But, since you are determined to go down a path that in no way contradicts or even applies to what I or LovingitAll has said, I will answer the question. I "think" (and it's just a guess for all of us because, again, it's ridiculous to attempt a definitive ceiling at this early stage) that at whatever point Schultz peak is, if he were to be the every down TE his ceiling might be 800 yards and 5 TDs a season. I doubt he will get that chance anytime soon though, because I think Jarwin and Swaim have similar potential, therefore I doubt the Cowboys hand over the job to any one of them similar to the way they did with Witten. Bottom line is I think we have several players who have the potential to be strong, but not top tier TE's.

 

[Future]

Again, read LovinitAll's words - he said Schultz was just now SHOWING his potential. 6 weeks ago, and even 3 weeks ago, he was not showing his potential, largely because he was getting very little opportunity, therefore what LovinitAll said is correct - Schultz was not showing his potential before, but is now. So, again, you fabricated an argument based on something he did not say rather than respond logically based on what he did say.

And, again, your argument about what I think his ceiling can be is irrelevant because it's obvious that he hasn't reached that ceiling in just 14 catches in his rookie year as you have ridiculously indicated.

But, since you are determined to go down a path that in no way contradicts or even applies to what I or LovingitAll has said, I will answer the question. I "think" (and it's just a guess for all of us because, again, it's ridiculous to attempt a definitive ceiling at this early stage) that at whatever point Schultz peak is, if he were to be the every down TE his ceiling might be 800 yards and 5 TDs a season. I doubt he will get that chance anytime soon though, because I think Jarwin and Swaim have similar potential, therefore I doubt the Cowboys hand over the job to any one of them similar to the way they did with Witten. Bottom line is I think we have several players who have the potential to be strong, but not top tier TE's.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

You're still not going to use any real examples, so I'm not even reading.

 

[LovinItAll]

Rico and Schultz is not apples to apples, b/c they weren't drafted for the same thing. You can't determine an upside, but you can guess at it. That's how NFL drafting works. Schultz wasn't drafted b/c they thought he was going to be Gronk lol.

TEs don't. Comparing Schultz to Brown is just as ridiculous as comparing him to Brady. Find a TE drafted after 2010 who was undersized, slow, and weak and developed into anything better than what Schultz is now. It does not happen in the NFL.

Schultz
6'6", 245, 4.75, 15 BP reps

????
6'5", 249, 4.76, 24 BP reps,

Same size, same speed, but ERTZ is slightly stronger.

Later......

 

[OmerV]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

You're still not going to use any real examples, so I'm not even reading.

lol - you are totally incapable of logic or reasonable discussion. You have done nothing but fabricate arguments that have nothing to do with what those you respond to have written, and you dig deeper into the irrelevant every time you post. If you can't understand words that are written, and don't even know the definition of common words, there is no sense in trying to have a discussion with you.

 

[Future]

Schultz
6'6", 245, 4.75, 15 BP reps

????
6'5", 249, 4.76, 24 BP reps,

Same size, same speed, but ERTZ is slightly stronger.

Later......

What's your point in comparing him to Ertz? I don't think Ertz has a higher ceiling than Schultz does...

 

[Future]

lol - you are totally incapable of logic or reasonable discussion. You have done nothing but fabricate arguments that have nothing to do with what those you respond to have written, and you dig deeper into the irrelevant every time you post. If you can't understand words that are written, and don't even know the definition of common words, there is no sense in trying to have a discussion with you.

I asked you very specific questions, and you can't do it. The difference between me, you and whoever in this thread is

1 - I have an actual idea, and am sticking to it
2 - You are saying you have no idea what he could be come and refusing to use any real examples to prove me wrong.

So again, what do you think he can be. Who do you look at as his ceiling? More than that, using your own scale, who are the players that are Average - Solid - Good - Very Good, and what is the difference that each of them makes on a game-to-game basis? And then, what is the difference they are making that Schultz isn't over the last 2 weeks, and how will Schultz impact games in ways that they don't?

You're just waxing about the idea of player development and blah blah blah. Players don't develop if they don't have the athletic upside to develop into.

 

[LovinItAll]

What's your point in comparing him to Ertz? I don't think Ertz has a higher ceiling than Schultz does...

Are you just trying to be contrary and dense? You said:

'Find a TE drafted after 2010 who was undersized, slow, and weak and developed into anything better than what Schultz is now.'

I did what you asked. Stop moving the goal posts just because you got owned.

EDIT: Ertz has over 100 catches and 1000+ yards. I'll take that from my TE. In addition, Schultz was a good blocker coming out of college.

Ertz was drafted in 2013 and is certainly a better player ATM than Schultz.

 

[Plankton]

I was higher on Dalton Schultz than most people on this board coming out of the draft this past year. He was one of my pet cats, and I think he has solid potential. Obviously, he needs to add size and strength to maximize his abilities as a blocker, but he is the type of guy who will be in the league for 8-10 years as a complementary TE who likely has a ceiling as an average starting TE.

That being said, if the Cowboys have the opportunity to add another TE, they should absolutely pursue it.

 

[CATCH17]

well none of our WR's look that good consistently. cooper has done the best i suppose but even then he can come and go. is that him and every other WR/TE or is it dak? the system?

before cooper no "pass catcher" on the team was really worth a flip as far as not being a "dime a dozen" guy.

Even when Romo was here our big time WRs disappeared for stretches.

This offense doesn’t scheme specific players open

 

[Future]

Are you just trying to be contrary and dense? You said:

'Find a TE drafted after 2010 who was undersized, slow, and weak and developed into anything better than what Schultz is now.'

I did what you asked. Stop moving the goal posts just because you got owned.

EDIT: Ertz has over 100 catches and 1000+ yards. I'll take that from my TE. In addition, Schultz was a good blocker coming out of college.

Ertz was drafted in 2013 and is certainly a better player ATM than Schultz.

I don't care that Ertz has 100 catches. There are at least 10 TEs more dynamic than him. I said that a whole bunch of posts ago.

I think that's being taken out of context, or I misspoke. Because what I mean is find one who isn't an elite athlete and developed beyond what I think Schultz will from their rookie year. Ertz is still the same player he's always been, they just throw it to him more. He was a polished receiver when he entered the league.