BTB Vela: Scouting the Cowboys ILB Prospects -- Think 46

[WoodysGirl]

by Rafael Vela on Feb 22, 2009 1:25 PM CST

17 comments

I'm writing a piece on Wade Phillips' extense use of the 46 defense down the stretch and it occurs to me the needs of this scheme might be dictating some of the Cowboys' draft and free agent plans.

There were many reasons to shift to more 46 plays last year. From a linebackers' perspective, it allowed Dallas to get Kevin Burnett on the field more in place in Zach Thomas. Burnett played behind three defensive linemen and was thus able to play on 1st and 2nd downs despite being 227 lbs.

If you're looking at the key elements of a successful 46, you need a good rushing nose tackle, a top rushing weakside end, two good man-to-man cover guys, a good blitzing strongside linebacker, an all-purpose strong safety, and an all-purpose middle linebacker, who can stuff the run and who also has the wheels to drop into the deep middle on passing downs.

In many respects, a 46 MLB resembles a quality Tampa-2 middle backer. Mike Singletary excelled in this scheme because he could drop as well as he could plug running lanes.

Look at Dallas last year and you see a lot of key pieces in place. Jay Ratliff is as good an inside rusher as you'll find in the current game. Demarcus Ware fits the prototype weakside end. Bradie James found his niche blitzing off the strongside, as Wilbur Marshall did in the '80s. Dallas has corners who can play man.

The weaknesses, as we've discussed at length, come at SS and MLB. The Cowboys lack a safety thumper who can cover. At middle linebacker, they also have more half-a-loaf stories. Burnett replaced Thomas because he can cover extremely well, but he's not an ideal long-term solution on running downs. He's even riskier in the base 3-4, which Dallas still runs most of the time.

When you assess the ILBs Dallas has interviewed -- guys like Darry Beckwith, who list at around 230-235 lbs., but who run in the 4.6 range -- think of them in the pivot of a 46 in addition to playing over guards in a 34. Otherwise, some of these lighter guys, the Beckwiths and the Zach Folletts, don't make sense.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

got to include Wisconsin OLB Jonathan Casillas in the discussion then

he could also be the thumper SS who can cover too

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Mckillop,Phillips and Brinkley would be on my radar to fill that ILB spot.

 

[28 Joker]

I would take Beckwith in round 3, but what if Phil Loadholt is staring you in the face. What does Dallas think of Tyronne Green? Will they rule him out due to his size or height? He can learn the center position and be a good option at guard. I wouldn't rule him out at all. Green looks like a third rounder.

This is frustrating, because how long is Dallas going to ignore the offensive line? Ireland tried and failed in 2007. They better address the left side, or they will not win. Plus, Romo is going to get killed. This team doesn't have a swing tackle, much less a guy who could start one day.

Safety looks terrible. Ken Hamlin and what?

ILB looks terrible. Bradie James and what?

DLine could use another player from this draft.

A third rusher is needed at OLB.


Dallas has drafted some good defensive players and struck out on the offensive line. This draft has value to the Cowboys at offensive line in rounds 2,3, and possibly round 4. If the Cowboys don't come out of this draft with at least two guys who can start by at least 2010, they will pay the price, imo.

Giving Terrell Owens $12.9 million dollars didn't help.


You may be looking at losing Marcus Spears and Miles Austin in 2010 if you don't have the cap room. That would be a disaster, imo.

I would make room and sign Gibril Wilson.

 

[BAT]

by Rafael Vela on Feb 22, 2009 1:25 PM CST

17 comments

I'm writing a piece on Wade Phillips' extense use of the 46 defense down the stretch and it occurs to me the needs of this scheme might be dictating some of the Cowboys' draft and free agent plans.

There were many reasons to shift to more 46 plays last year. From a linebackers' perspective, it allowed Dallas to get Kevin Burnett on the field more in place in Zach Thomas. Burnett played behind three defensive linemen and was thus able to play on 1st and 2nd downs despite being 227 lbs.

If you're looking at the key elements of a successful 46, you need a good rushing nose tackle, a top rushing weakside end, two good man-to-man cover guys, a good blitzing strongside linebacker, an all-purpose strong safety, and an all-purpose middle linebacker, who can stuff the run and who also has the wheels to drop into the deep middle on passing downs.

In many respects, a 46 MLB resembles a quality Tampa-2 middle backer. Mike Singletary excelled in this scheme because he could drop as well as he could plug running lanes.

Look at Dallas last year and you see a lot of key pieces in place. Jay Ratliff is as good an inside rusher as you'll find in the current game. Demarcus Ware fits the prototype weakside end. Bradie James found his niche blitzing off the strongside, as Wilbur Marshall did in the '80s. Dallas has corners who can play man.

The weaknesses, as we've discussed at length, come at SS and MLB. The Cowboys lack a safety thumper who can cover. At middle linebacker, they also have more half-a-loaf stories. Burnett replaced Thomas because he can cover extremely well, but he's not an ideal long-term solution on running downs. He's even riskier in the base 3-4, which Dallas still runs most of the time.

When you assess the ILBs Dallas has interviewed -- guys like Darry Beckwith, who list at around 230-235 lbs., but who run in the 4.6 range -- think of them in the pivot of a 46 in addition to playing over guards in a 34. Otherwise, some of these lighter guys, the Beckwiths and the Zach Folletts, don't make sense.

I usually agree with Vela's analyses, but he's plain wrong here. Singletary was not a coverage LB, all he was asked to do was stop the run, usually from Guard to Guard. Singletary had THREE guys on the outside who could rush the passer (Dent, Marshall, Wilson) or run blitz (the main purpose of the 46 was to stone the run), and it was usually the SS who covered the shallow middle (while Dan Hampton usually destroyed centers).


The LBs responsibilities in a true 46 are nothing like a Tampa 2 team's LBs.


Burnett replaced Thomas in Wade's 46 (which he called the "Bum"), b/c he was essentially playing the SS role, not the MLB role.


But I do agree that having an all purpose MLB (which is James spot, not Zach's by the way) would allow the Cowboys to be more effective, able to disguise their fronts (and would not be so personnel dependent).


The perfect MLB for the Cowboys would be one who could cover, stone the run AND rush the passer_someone like Brian Urlacher or, Ray Lewis. Both guys would not have to come out whether the Cowboys line up in a base front, an under front (4-3 or 3-4) or the 46.

 

[28 Joker]

If the Cowboys are looking at Darry Beckwith, then, they are probably looking at these two guys:

1. Tyrone McKenzie OLB South Florida
2. Danelle Ellerbe OLB Georgia

In 2007, Ellerbe had 93 tackles, 12.0 TFL, and 4.5 sacks. He played in all 13 games. He was injured in 2008 and only played in 10 games. His production dropped way off. However, that 2007 season looks real good. McKenzie will be in high demand.

I think Frantz Joseph plays Bradie James' spot.

 

[BAT]

If the Cowboys are looking at Darry Beckwith, then, they are probably looking at these two guys:

1. Tyrone McKenzie OLB South Florida
2. Danelle Ellerbe OLB Georgia

In 2007, Ellerbe had 93 tackles, 12.0 TFL, and 4.5 sacks. He played in all 13 games. He was injured in 2008 and only played in 10 games. His production dropped way off. However, that 2007 season looks real good. McKenzie will be in high demand.

I think Frantz Joseph plays Bradie James' spot.

I like McKenzie, he could be a good one. But might have to take him with the 1st pick (2nd rounder), or he may not be there when Cowboys pick in 3rd round.


Ellerbe is a great athlete, will wow them at the combines. But the guy is more athlete than football player. He sometimes negates his speed by being slow to read/react. Guy lacks instincts, game is not easy for him unless he is chasing the play. Would be better off as an OLB in a 4-3.

 

[28 Joker]

I like McKenzie, he could be a good one. But might have to take him with the 1st pick (2nd rounder), or he may not be there when Cowboys pick in 3rd round.


Ellerbe is a great athlete, will wow them at the combines. But the guy is more athlete than football player. He sometimes negates his speed by being slow to read/react. Guy lacks instincts, game is not easy for him unless he is chasing the play. Would be better off as an OLB in a 4-3.

You are right about McKenzie, but I don't want to pick an ILB at number 51 when there will be better prospects on the board, imo. He's a good looking player, though. He will not be there in round 3 when we pick. I agree.

I just checked on Ellerbe, and he has an off the field issue. He hurt his knee, and played ILB as a Senior. He was suspended three games due to the off the field issue. He played SAM at the East-West game.

Georgia's defense fell apart this year. They had some issues for sure. What's up with Asher Allen being rated so high? He looks like a cover-2 guy to me.

 

[big dog cowboy]

The weaknesses, as we've discussed at length, come at SS and MLB. The Cowboys lack a safety thumper who can cover.

I'd love to draft a couple of those in the middle rounds.

 

[BAT]

got to include Wisconsin OLB Jonathan Casillas in the discussion then

he could also be the thumper SS who can cover too

Love this suggestion, Casillas' forte is pass coverage and his size/speed (6'2 225 4.45) could be Darren Woodson-like at SS or Donnie Edwards-like at ILB.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Jasper Brinkley, a serious knee injury a couple years ago is my only question mark, but hes a big time thumper with attitude.

 

[proline]

Love this suggestion, Casillas' forte is pass coverage and his size/speed (6'2 225 4.45) could be Darren Woodson-like at SS or Donnie Edwards-like at ILB.

I haven't seen him play, but based just on his highlight video alone ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkEh6r7qoFU ), he is nothing like Woodson. He rarely delivers a big hit, and he seems to tackle with his hands an awful lot. He won't get away with that at the next level.

Fast and athletic, yes. Woodson-like? No.

He does know how to horse-collar, though, so he at least has that part of the conversion to SS down!

 

[Doomsday101]

I did not get to see the LB but 1 player caught my eye and that was WR Brian Robiskie from Ohio State. He had a pretty impressive and solid combine this weekend.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I pray that the 46 doesn't become a staple of our defense. While it's a good defense to throw in and mix things up. Especially if you can somewhat disguise it. To use it extensively is to get burned badly and often.

For it to be extremely effective, you need several guys that can penetrate the line and do it consistently. We have Ware and Ratliff that can get consistent pressure. If Spencer can take it to a new level this season and James can produce eight sacks again, then maybe we can use it more than occasionally. (ie more than 3-5 times a game) Although whoever takes over for Canty must produce more pressure than Canty did and big time coverage liabilities like Roy Williams cannot be on the field when it happens.

For those that didn't know, two things killed the 46 defense. The West Coast Offense, and the fact that people tried to run it without having a defensive front that could produce enough pressure quickly to make it effective. (getting that much of that type of talent on the defensive front is hard to do) There are several teams that run the West Coast Offense, and there are several teams that do not, but can if need be.

 

[CATCH17]

I pray that the 46 doesn't become a staple of our defense. While it's a good defense to throw in and mix things up. Especially if you can somewhat disguise it. To use it extensively is to get burned badly and often.

For it to be extremely effective, you need several guys that can penetrate the line and do it consistently. We have Ware and Ratliff that can get consistent pressure. If Spencer can take it to a new level this season and James can produce eight sacks again, then maybe we can use it more than occasionally. (ie more than 3-5 times a game) Although whoever takes over for Canty must produce more pressure than Canty did and big time coverage liabilities like Roy Williams cannot be on the field when it happens.

For those that didn't know, two things killed the 46 defense. The West Coast Offense, and the fact that people tried to run it without having a defensive front that could produce enough pressure quickly to make it effective. (getting that much of that type of talent on the defensive front is hard to do) There are several teams that run the West Coast Offense, and there are several teams that do not, but can if need be.

Im sure if a team comes out in a 3 wide set we wouldn't be trotting out our 4-6 defense.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Im sure if a team comes out in a 3 wide set we wouldn't be trotting out our 4-6 defense.

The West Coast Offense doesn't only run out of a 3 wide set. It can be run out of almost any set. The West Coast Offense is more about precisely ran timing routes than about 3 wide sets.

 

[CATCH17]

The West Coast Offense doesn't only run out of a 3 wide set. It can be run out of almost any set. The West Coast Offense is more about precisely ran timing routes than about 3 wide sets.

Yeah but you aren't going to create a lot of mismatches in any set that involves a fullback or 2 TE's against a 4-6.

We are still primarily a 3-4 team but if we go 4-6 we have guys who have proven they can man up and cover when we call upon this defense and our pass rush is sick out of this defense.

Who knew Bradie James was such a beast off the edge rushing? Not I.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I would think that OL and ILB depth is going to be of major concern come the draft, probably DL as well. We could see us spending a vast majority of the draft on those three areas to increase the depth there.

 

[jblaze2004]

what about worrel williams #1 from cal at middle lineback he's alittle short but is still around 250 and can hit. we might can get him in the 4th

 

[Alexander]

what about worrel williams #1 from cal at middle lineback he's alittle short but is still around 250 and can hit. we might can get him in the 4th

He is a lot better than either of these two Vela mentions we have looked at.