Build through the draft like this

coult44

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I keep hearing and seeing everyone say we have to build through the draft. I think you have to build through draft but add key pieces in FA. However I have a question for some of you roster and draft gurus. We've been 8-8 for three years, have been stuck in the middle of the pack, and have a few extra picks in the 7th round. The 49ers have been to several championships, been considered to be a top 3 team, are stacked everywhere. This year they have 6 picks in the first three rounds. It's impossible to catch up with a team this great, when they are ran as good as they are and keep stacking up in the draft like this? How are they doing it? If we need to build through the draft, how do we do it like they are doing it?
 

OhSnap

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They've been great but only for 3 seasons, give success and free agency time to work on em before you say it's impossible to catch em. I'm not sure they can take another year of Harblow.
 

Fredd

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I can't think about Seattle and San Fran...they deserve a world of credit for what they are doing right now...but, they also have QB's on cheapo deals...that will start to impact them very soon and then they won't have all of the pieces in place to keep these types of runs going....

...the cowboys just need to keep improving and STAY HEALTHY...with the latter, I believe that they are already a playoff team
 

ThreeandOut

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I keep hearing and seeing everyone say we have to build through the draft. I think you have to build through draft but add key pieces in FA. However I have a question for some of you roster and draft gurus. We've been 8-8 for three years, have been stuck in the middle of the pack, and have a few extra picks in the 7th round. The 49ers have been to several championships, been considered to be a top 3 team, are stacked everywhere. This year they have 6 picks in the first three rounds. It's impossible to catch up with a team this great, when they are ran as good as they are and keep stacking up in the draft like this? How are they doing it? If we need to build through the draft, how do we do it like they are doing it?

Start accumulating draft picks by trading current year picks for future picks, then keep repeating the process in future years. Perhaps we can begin the process by trading one of those seventh round picks for a six rounder next year. If one of the top QB's falls to 16, then maybe a team will be willing to trade a premium pick to move up to take the QB.
 

thunderpimp91

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You bring up the 49ers I think their recipe for success is pretty simple. They were able to trade back in prior drafts to stockpile picks, especially the past two years. The ability to do that and still hit on you picks is much easier said than done. Aside from that they built up the power run game on offense, and the front seven on defense. Similar formula to what Seattle has done. Keep in mind neither of these teams have been considered elite for very long, just the past 2-3 seasons. Before that they had a lot of top picks.
 

AsthmaField

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This year they have 6 picks in the first three rounds. It's impossible to catch up with a team this great, when they are ran as good as they are and keep stacking up in the draft like this? How are they doing it? If we need to build through the draft, how do we do it like they are doing it?

It is simple: Make good picks and take the best players you can.

I'm not trying to be contrite, I'm just saying that if you make good picks, then you don't have to manage to get a bunch of extra choices in the early rounds.

If you make solid choices and get 3 or 4 good players out of each draft, then you are going to build a really good talent base. Extra picks help, of course, but you can do it without happening to luck up on two QB's and trading one away. Quality not quantity is the way to go IMO. Even coming out of a draft with 2 really high quality players would be considered a win in the NFL draft.

Take the player that your scouting department has ranked the highest and don't reach for need. That is a big part of it IMO. For instance, in the 2009 draft Dallas' 2nd round pick came up and Shady McCoy was sitting there, just waiting for the Cowboys to take him. However, Dallas had Barber and Felix Jones, and even though the Dallas scouts had McCoy rated as a first round pick and he was still available in the second... Dallas made the dubious choice of trading back and skipping over McCoy because they thought they were set at RB. They netted more picks of course, but the quality of the players they ended up with was light years away from Shady McCoy.

Marion Barber hit the wall and Felix never even got started and as it turned out Dallas passed on a guy who is arguably the best back in football for an athletic LB who didn't know how to play football and a fat guy who didn't want to. Of course, Dallas had intended on taking Max Unger as he was sliding to their pick but Seattle actually moved UP in the draft a few spots and took a guy they really liked. Imagine that. The moral of that story to me is to take the blue chip player who is sitting there at your choice rather than get cute and try to draft for need.

Just pick good players. If a guy who your scouts tell you is really talented is there at your pick, then just take him. If he is that much head and shoulders above everyone else, then move up a few spots and take him. The cost isn't so high that it is worth missing a guy that you're sure is a perfect fit for your team. Had they done that even after trading back from McCoy, then at least they would have got out of the 2009 draft with Max Unger, who would have been a career solid starter for them. Instead they had 12 picks and not one of them were worth a ****.

Jimmy Johnson tended to draft that way. If he saw a player who he really liked, he would go up and get him. He did make some big moves, but more often than not it was just simple, 5, 6, 7 spots up to make sure he got who he wanted. In 1990 Dallas picked 21st and Emmitt Smith was sliding down towards their pick. Jimmy looked and saw that Atlanta picked at #20 and their biggest need was RB. Jimmy knew that they would most likely pick Emmitt and he also knew that the next best back was Steve Broussard out of Washington State. He saw that the dropoff from Emmitt to Broussard was huge, so he moved up from 21 to 17 in a trade with Pittsburgh, and took the back he really wanted... not the best back that was there at his pick at 21 (which would have been Broussard).

The rest is history. Emmitt is the NFL's all-time leading rusher and Broussard went on to spectacular mediocrity with Atlanta. I remember thinking back then about how sick Atlanta must have been that Emmitt went 3 picks ahead of them. One team saw what they wanted and made it happen regardless of it costing them a 3rd and a 5th round pick. The other sat and hoped the draft would fall the way they wanted it to and retained their 3rd and 4th round picks (which went on to be Oliver Barnett and Reggie Redding).

Obviously, I'm not talking about making big jumps up like from 20th overall up to 2nd overall. That would indeed cost too much. Just like I wouldn't suggest a big move back like from 10th back to 30th. Those moves are either too costly or too big a drop in talent. I'm talking about small moves up or back in order to get the guys you have targeted. There are times when the player you really want is ranked to go lower than where you pick... that is when the team should make a small trade back and get a little extra in addition to the guy they want.

I just think that teams need to find guys that really fit what they want and do what they can to try to make it happen. Scout well. Know what you want to fit your system. Target guys who you really like, and maneuver around and make it happen. There have been years when there was really nobody that really seemed like a perfect fit. The year Dallas drafted Bobby Carpenter comes to mind. They could have moved back some and gotten a player they liked just as much and added a pick or two. Not a big trade back, but some. That would have been fine.

Other drafts like this year, there are a couple of guys that really fit what we need and you wouldn't want to trade back unless they are gone. It is no secret that I am in favor of a small move up to get Aaron Donald because of what a perfect fit he is for the defense. I think moving up for Donald to around 11 would be very wise. Much like the year with Emmitt, the gap between Donald and the next best DT is huge. To get a talent like Donald on the team, it is worth giving up a pick or two.

If you have a good scouting department, a coaching staff that really conveys what kind of player they want to the scouts, then you just need to find the guys who have talent and fit what you're looking for, and move around to insure you walk away from the draft with as many of them as you can. Stick to your board and don't draft too much for need. If you see a difference maker within reach, then go get him because in the NFL, it is the difference makers that moves a team up above the mediocrity that is NFL parity. Those few rare guys separate their team from the others.

Make good decisions based on good scouting and be proactive getting them on your team, and you don't need to be lucky enough to have a second QB you can trade away like San Francisco did.

Sorry for the length.
 

BigStar

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I keep hearing and seeing everyone say we have to build through the draft. I think you have to build through draft but add key pieces in FA. However I have a question for some of you roster and draft gurus. We've been 8-8 for three years, have been stuck in the middle of the pack, and have a few extra picks in the 7th round. The 49ers have been to several championships, been considered to be a top 3 team, are stacked everywhere. This year they have 6 picks in the first three rounds. It's impossible to catch up with a team this great, when they are ran as good as they are and keep stacking up in the draft like this? How are they doing it? If we need to build through the draft, how do we do it like they are doing it?

Need someone capable of this forward thinking. We draft @ the moment, every pick. There is no foresight on this team (2nd rounder we make room for bc they drop due to injury). We draft need when needed and score on top choices when capable, like a fan would ;)
 

btcutter

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Sounds to simple yet few have the courage to follow thru.

Very true. We also have benefit of hindsight. Who knew MacCoy was going to be a great back. If he was a bust this conversation would have never happened. By the same token, if JJ knew McCoy was going to be this good he would have picked him too.
 

AsthmaField

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Very true. We also have benefit of hindsight. Who knew MacCoy was going to be a great back. If he was a bust this conversation would have never happened. By the same token, if JJ knew McCoy was going to be this good he would have picked him too.

What they did know is that he was rated higher than anyone else left on the draft board. That he was rated as a first rounder by our own scouts, and that it being well into the second round when our pick came up... common sense said he should be the pick.

You don't need hindsight for that.

The hindsight only makes it look exponentially worse than it already did.
 

Zman5

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It all started with getting rid of a bad HC and hiring the right one for SF. They had good players under Singletary but he just couldn't get it done. They hire Harbaugh, and in three years, he takes them to 3 NFC Championship games and one SB.
 

Idgit

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The only way you catch a team that's stockpiling picks by trading players is to stockpile your own and trade more players than they do. Or out develop the ones you do select.

That said, I don't think anybody would dispute the job the Niners have done drafting and coaching recently. They've been great.
 

visionary

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You can't build through the draft if the person doing the picking and the person responsible for developing those picks don't know what they are doing
 

JackWagon

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I keep hearing and seeing everyone say we have to build through the draft. I think you have to build through draft but add key pieces in FA. However I have a question for some of you roster and draft gurus. We've been 8-8 for three years, have been stuck in the middle of the pack, and have a few extra picks in the 7th round. The 49ers have been to several championships, been considered to be a top 3 team, are stacked everywhere. This year they have 6 picks in the first three rounds. It's impossible to catch up with a team this great, when they are ran as good as they are and keep stacking up in the draft like this? How are they doing it? If we need to build through the draft, how do we do it like they are doing it?

They are hitting on their picks (getting really good players) in rounds 3-7 ... we are only really hitting on our picks in round 1 and every other year in round 2. When you draft this crappy you can never catch up to the better run teams.
 

tideh20heel

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Very true. We also have benefit of hindsight. Who knew MacCoy was going to be a great back. If he was a bust this conversation would have never happened. By the same token, if JJ knew McCoy was going to be this good he would have picked him too.

Sadly we had him graded that high. So I guess we knew.
 
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