Bye Bye to the 4-3

[parcellsguys]

The whole idea behind running a 3-4 is so a team can be aggreessive without being generic. if you have four lineman with a hand on the ground the offense knows where your rushing from. If you try to blitz a linebacker, bringing five guys, you leave the defense open for the passing game.

Allowing Ferguson to clog up the gaps in the middle, while allowing two linebackers to beat the running back to the hole with their speed is more effecient in stopping the run, plus it gives you the option to blitz a linebacker, while still only rushign four guys, from any gap along the line.

A lot more teams are also running three wide sets, so I expect this defense to run the 3-4 or the nickel package about 85% of the time. The only time you want the 4-3 is when is in a short yardage situation. In that situation the linebackers getting there and stopping the RB for a 1 or 2 yard gain might still lead to a first down.

Here's another reason I like the 3-4 more than the 4-3. Demarcus Ware. Say you have Glover and Ferguson bull rushing and Ellis and Spears rushing the corners. Where does that leave Ware room to stunt. Too much traffic for him to break a gap and get the QB. Don't forget half the time a blitz doesn't work is that a player gets clogged up by one of his own men getting blocked right in front of him, which means a guy with quickness now has to go around two bodies to get a sack. If he just needs to beat the O lineman he has a better chance.

The pass rush has been terrible for the Cowboys over the last ten years. This will change this year dramaticly. Glover will be fresher on 3rd downs, Ware is the best speed rusher we have had in years and the opposing teams RB's(who is assigned to pick up blitzes) will have to guess where the rush is coming from almost all the time.

I would describe the differences in the 3-4 and the 4-3 as...

Flexibility in your plan to rush the passer from game to game.

The other team has a crappy left tackle, bring the heat over there. The other team has a crappy right guard, bring the heat from over there. The other team has a RB who doesn't pick up the blitz well, switch up all game.

Any coach in the NFL will tell you the 3-4 is more of a pain in the but to gameplan for because you don't know the four attack points, in the 4-3 you do on about 95% of the plays.

The key to this new 3-4 defense is going to be if Ellis and Spears can be disciplined and not always try to rush around the outside of the Tackle. All three lineman are gonna have to expect to be hitting into two lineman on most plays, this is why Coach Parcells wants so much depth. The five offensive lineman on the other team usualy don't get breathers so by the fourth quarter they get lazy. This is the best time for Demarcus Ware to either run by a Tackle or to stunt and beat the Guard/Center.

Ware is gonna be the new LT!

 

[Hoods]

Very good read man. Thanks alot.

 

[billknows]

The whole idea behind running a 3-4 is so a team can be aggreessive without being generic. if you have four lineman with a hand on the ground the offense knows where your rushing from. If you try to blitz a linebacker, bringing five guys, you leave the defense open for the passing game.

Allowing Ferguson to clog up the gaps in the middle, while allowing two linebackers to beat the running back to the hole with their speed is more effecient in stopping the run, plus it gives you the option to blitz a linebacker, while still only rushign four guys, from any gap along the line.

A lot more teams are also running three wide sets, so I expect this defense to run the 3-4 or the nickel package about 85% of the time. The only time you want the 4-3 is when is in a short yardage situation. In that situation the linebackers getting there and stopping the RB for a 1 or 2 yard gain might still lead to a first down.

Here's another reason I like the 3-4 more than the 4-3. Demarcus Ware. Say you have Glover and Ferguson bull rushing and Ellis and Spears rushing the corners. Where does that leave Ware room to stunt. Too much traffic for him to break a gap and get the QB. Don't forget half the time a blitz doesn't work is that a player gets clogged up by one of his own men getting blocked right in front of him, which means a guy with quickness now has to go around two bodies to get a sack. If he just needs to beat the O lineman he has a better chance.

The pass rush has been terrible for the Cowboys over the last ten years. This will change this year dramaticly. Glover will be fresher on 3rd downs, Ware is the best speed rusher we have had in years and the opposing teams RB's(who is assigned to pick up blitzes) will have to guess where the rush is coming from almost all the time.

I would describe the differences in the 3-4 and the 4-3 as...

Flexibility in your plan to rush the passer from game to game.

The other team has a crappy left tackle, bring the heat over there. The other team has a crappy right guard, bring the heat from over there. The other team has a RB who doesn't pick up the blitz well, switch up all game.

Any coach in the NFL will tell you the 3-4 is more of a pain in the but to gameplan for because you don't know the four attack points, in the 4-3 you do on about 95% of the plays.

The key to this new 3-4 defense is going to be if Ellis and Spears can be disciplined and not always try to rush around the outside of the Tackle. All three lineman are gonna have to expect to be hitting into two lineman on most plays, this is why Coach Parcells wants so much depth. The five offensive lineman on the other team usualy don't get breathers so by the fourth quarter they get lazy. This is the best time for Demarcus Ware to either run by a Tackle or to stunt and beat the Guard/Center.

Ware is gonna be the new LT!

we had the best D two yrs. ago., Just think with a better lineman in fergy and spears how better we are than two yrs. ago.

we have a better set of corners than two yrs. ago. Just think how we can turn a proven Roy Williams loose on an Offense.


Bill is going to play whatever is working!!! He is definately playing to win, make no mistake about that my friend...


rookie ware or proven vet glover.....We certainly can play a 4-3 with very good results..Do you not think a coach will forget having a # 1 Defense in the NFL just 2 yrs. ago, think about that. and while you are trying to find an answer to that, ..chech it out, Bill kept the 4-3 coach that gave him a # 1 Defense just 2 yrs. ago. If he has to concentrate on the Offense Zimmer can 4-3 it with this bunch easily............

Bill brought in great personel capable of playing both 3-4 and 4-3 and you better believe J Jones and 25 million dollors specified he do just that ...

We are going to WIN one way or the other and Bill does,t care how,a 6-10 season at this point in his career settled that...

Believe me Bill won't bat an eye if our 4-3 is working well,he simply won't mess with it ,if the results are good, just win baby ,...he hasn't the time to install a system that is not working better than another proven one......................................................................................................................The 4-3 is still very much alive ..may the best one win, and WE do mean Win Baby...Bill Knows!!!

 

[Dayton Cowboy]

Ware is gonna be the new LT!

Lets not put the cart before the horse just yet.... I very much like everything I've been reading and hearing about D Ware, however he has yet to play an NFL down. To proclaim him as the new LT is a stretch. But I'll hope along with everyone else that he will be a great player for us.

 

[Hollywood Henderson]

Sorry Bill Knows, but Bill isn't running a 4-3...
He has seen enough of the passive and predictable crap that the DC was doing...It only led to LOSSES...

Our D sucked 2 years ago, it couldn't stop anyone who was better then average on offense...

We have always been last or near last in the NFL in sacks & turnovers because zimmy can't coach...

Now we will see if he can hold a clipboard...
Ether way, his days in Dallas are number...Thank GOD!

 

[Doomsday101]

The whole idea behind running a 3-4 is so a team can be aggreessive without being generic. if you have four lineman with a hand on the ground the offense knows where your rushing from. If you try to blitz a linebacker, bringing five guys, you leave the defense open for the passing game.

Allowing Ferguson to clog up the gaps in the middle, while allowing two linebackers to beat the running back to the hole with their speed is more effecient in stopping the run, plus it gives you the option to blitz a linebacker, while still only rushign four guys, from any gap along the line.

A lot more teams are also running three wide sets, so I expect this defense to run the 3-4 or the nickel package about 85% of the time. The only time you want the 4-3 is when is in a short yardage situation. In that situation the linebackers getting there and stopping the RB for a 1 or 2 yard gain might still lead to a first down.

Here's another reason I like the 3-4 more than the 4-3. Demarcus Ware. Say you have Glover and Ferguson bull rushing and Ellis and Spears rushing the corners. Where does that leave Ware room to stunt. Too much traffic for him to break a gap and get the QB. Don't forget half the time a blitz doesn't work is that a player gets clogged up by one of his own men getting blocked right in front of him, which means a guy with quickness now has to go around two bodies to get a sack. If he just needs to beat the O lineman he has a better chance.

The pass rush has been terrible for the Cowboys over the last ten years. This will change this year dramaticly. Glover will be fresher on 3rd downs, Ware is the best speed rusher we have had in years and the opposing teams RB's(who is assigned to pick up blitzes) will have to guess where the rush is coming from almost all the time.

I would describe the differences in the 3-4 and the 4-3 as...

Flexibility in your plan to rush the passer from game to game.

The other team has a crappy left tackle, bring the heat over there. The other team has a crappy right guard, bring the heat from over there. The other team has a RB who doesn't pick up the blitz well, switch up all game.

Any coach in the NFL will tell you the 3-4 is more of a pain in the but to gameplan for because you don't know the four attack points, in the 4-3 you do on about 95% of the plays.

The key to this new 3-4 defense is going to be if Ellis and Spears can be disciplined and not always try to rush around the outside of the Tackle. All three lineman are gonna have to expect to be hitting into two lineman on most plays, this is why Coach Parcells wants so much depth. The five offensive lineman on the other team usualy don't get breathers so by the fourth quarter they get lazy. This is the best time for Demarcus Ware to either run by a Tackle or to stunt and beat the Guard/Center.

Ware is gonna be the new LT!

According to the defensive players such as Ware and Spears they have both said there is still pleanty of the 4-3 in the playbook. Dallas will use the 4-3 along with the 3-4

 

[Redball Express]

Good read..

I think we are all looking at the 3-4 with mixed reactions based on whether or not we have the players in place and the coaches in place to make it work. Especially this first year out with it.

While the potential is there, I think this will prove a long and tedious transition to the 3-4. Several teams have tried to make the move in the last few years and had mixed results for whatever reason. I expect the same.

Actually, more than ever, I think the 4-3 and the new players we have drafted and signed as FA will dramatically revamp the 4-3 into a monster defense compared to last year's.

Our biggest problems with it where pass rush and coverage in the secondary and everything we did in the off-season addressed those problems in a huge way.

While I think the 3-4 has it's place, I think we'll see it played about 25% of the time and see the 4-3 about 75% of the time. I really don't see us just throwing away Ellis and Glover because of a desire to shift to a 3-4, which doesn't seem to suit them. I've also got questions as to whether or not a 3-4 will really suit Roy Williams.

He was drafted to fit our 4-3 scheme as was Tnew. And do we really want to trot out all our rookie players we've drafted on defense and just suffer the consequences of them making the inevitable rookie mistakes and breakdown..? We'd be looking at Burnett, Canty, Spears and Ware all on the field at the same time and then a healthy addition of Izell Reece at FS, Fergy at tackle and Henry at CB.

That's 7 players potentially on the field who have never played together before and would be expected to play a 3-4 scheme that just hasn't yet been absorbed by the team as it's bread-and-butter defense. It's totally untested and yet to show it can Produce in pressure situations at all.

My feel of it is that BP doesn't like or trust rookies. He has continued to bring in vets at the key positions and drafted youth to begin the eventual transition to a 3-4 probably by next year as the base defense.

The 4-3 will eventually win out as our base defense because there is too much veteran personnel still on the roster that can ramp it up with less learning curve than the wholesale changes required for the 3-4.

And the fact that Zimmer is still here, albeit being asked to learn and run the 3-4, also, screams that the 4-3 will still be an integral part of the defense. Parcells would like to see the defense have interchangable parts that would allow the defense to employ whatever scheme matches up well against the opponent each week.

He'd like to have the opposing offense have to prepare for BOTH defenses which will split their preparation and reduce their focus on attacking one scheme. This really reduces what an offense can put into their gameplan when this has to happen.

So before Sunday even arrives, you have made the opposition have to adjust it's normal prep to deal with these problems and that makes for a mental edge going into the game in that the other team is probably going to be searching in the first couple of quarters as to how we are playing defense and what have we game planned.

And whether or not their game plan needs to be scrapped or implimented in the second half.

Games are won and lost in the second halves. We all know that. If we can play a cat and mouse game on defense that keeps the opposing offense guessing thruout the game as to what we are doing and can they keep up with the changes..

..we got the advantage.

This requires us to be fluent in both schemes to make this work. Just settling into one scheme or the other is not what BP is after. He wants options and players skilled enough to play both in 2005.

He's got that now on defense. He wants a defense that is multi-dimensional and can be flexible to matchup to any given situatioin with personnel packages that support that.

We're there. Now the players have to buy into it and learn it and get a feel themselves as to what each scheme brings. This is going to take time. But by the time the end of the pre-season comes, I predict we will all see a shift back to 4-3 schemes as the base defense, while having played a bunch of 3-4 in TC to get it embedded in the players how to run both and the interchangability of it all.

We'll see.

parcellswaterboy

 

[junk]

Good read..

I think we are all looking at the 3-4 with mixed reactions based on whether or not we have the players in place and the coaches in place to make it work. Especially this first year out with it.

While the potential is there, I think this will prove a long and tedious transition to the 3-4. Several teams have tried to make the move in the last few years and had mixed results for whatever reason. I expect the same.

Actually, more than ever, I think the 4-3 and the new players we have drafted and signed as FA will dramatically revamp the 4-3 into a monster defense compared to last year's.

Our biggest problems with it where pass rush and coverage in the secondary and everything we did in the off-season addressed those problems in a huge way.

While I think the 3-4 has it's place, I think we'll see it played about 25% of the time and see the 4-3 about 75% of the time. I really don't see us just throwing away Ellis and Glover because of a desire to shift to a 3-4, which doesn't seem to suit them. I've also got questions as to whether or not a 3-4 will really suit Roy Williams.

He was drafted to fit our 4-3 scheme as was Tnew. And do we really want to trot out all our rookie players we've drafted on defense and just suffer the consequences of them making the inevitable rookie mistakes and breakdown..? We'd be looking at Burnett, Canty, Spears and Ware all on the field at the same time and then a healthy addition of Izell Reece at FS, Fergy at tackle and Henry at CB.

That's 7 players potentially on the field who have never played together before and would be expected to play a 3-4 scheme that just hasn't yet been absorbed by the team as it's bread-and-butter defense. It's totally untested and yet to show it can Produce in pressure situations at all.

My feel of it is that BP doesn't like or trust rookies. He has continued to bring in vets at the key positions and drafted youth to begin the eventual transition to a 3-4 probably by next year as the base defense.

The 4-3 will eventually win out as our base defense because there is too much veteran personnel still on the roster that can ramp it up with less learning curve than the wholesale changes required for the 3-4.

And the fact that Zimmer is still here, albeit being asked to learn and run the 3-4, also, screams that the 4-3 will still be an integral part of the defense. Parcells would like to see the defense have interchangable parts that would allow the defense to employ whatever scheme matches up well against the opponent each week.

He'd like to have the opposing offense have to prepare for BOTH defenses which will split their preparation and reduce their focus on attacking one scheme. This really reduces what an offense can put into their gameplan when this has to happen.

So before Sunday even arrives, you have made the opposition have to adjust it's normal prep to deal with these problems and that makes for a mental edge going into the game in that the other team is probably going to be searching in the first couple of quarters as to how we are playing defense and what have we game planned.

And whether or not their game plan needs to be scrapped or implimented in the second half.

Games are won and lost in the second halves. We all know that. If we can play a cat and mouse game on defense that keeps the opposing offense guessing thruout the game as to what we are doing and can they keep up with the changes..

..we got the advantage.

This requires us to be fluent in both schemes to make this work. Just settling into one scheme or the other is not what BP is after. He wants options and players skilled enough to play both in 2005.

He's got that now on defense. He wants a defense that is multi-dimensional and can be flexible to matchup to any given situatioin with personnel packages that support that.

We're there. Now the players have to buy into it and learn it and get a feel themselves as to what each scheme brings. This is going to take time. But by the time the end of the pre-season comes, I predict we will all see a shift back to 4-3 schemes as the base defense, while having played a bunch of 3-4 in TC to get it embedded in the players how to run both and the interchangability of it all.

We'll see.

parcellswaterboy

Some good points, but I disagree on Roy and Newman. I think they will be effective in either scheme. 3-4 with Roy in the box or 4-3 with Roy in the box is still 8 men in the box. Coverage is coverage, they will still run man and zone in a 3-4 or a 4-3.

 

[Hostile]

Oh how I long for the days when people actually understood that any scheme can be effective and dangerous to face if you have the right personnel.

It isn't the scheme folks, it's the 11 guys on the field and what they can do. Always has been, always will be. How people who profess to be fans of the Cowboys and "Doomsday" cannot recognize this is beyond me. Teams field powerful 4-3 defesnes and crappy 3-4 defenses every year and the opposite holds true as well. Powerful 3-4's and crappy 4-3's are just as possible. Depends on the personnel.

I quit believing in Fairy Tales too many years ago.




Oh and HH, I'm still waiting for proof that Zimmer will only hold a clipboard and have nothing to do with the D. I don't expect to ever see that proof since we all know it doesn't exist. I do intend to keep asking for it though.

 

[Doomsday101]

Oh how I long for the days when people actually understood that any scheme can be effective and dangerous to face if you have the right personnel.

It isn't the scheme folks, it's the 11 guys on the field and what they can do. Always has been, always will be. How people who profess to be fans of the Cowboys and "Doomsday" cannot recognize this is beyond me. Teams field powerful 4-3 defesnes and crappy 3-4 defenses every year and the opposite holds true as well. Powerful 3-4's and crappy 4-3's are just as possible. Depends on the personnel.

I quit believing in Fairy Tales too many years ago.




Oh and HH, I'm still waiting for proof that Zimmer will only hold a clipboard and have nothing to do with the D. I don't expect to ever see that proof since we all know it doesn't exist. I do intend to keep asking for it though.

HH is in a no lose situation, If Dallas D does great then Zimmer was just holding on to the clip board, if they fail then it is Zimmer fault. Truth of the matter Zimmer will be running the defense and should take the heat if they fail and should get credit should they do a great job.

 

[Hollywood Henderson]

I am still laughing at you Hos...

Oh my how you have changed your tune over & over...
Now its reduced to prove zimmy won't do anything but hold a clipboard...ha ha...

What a joke, your still grasping at straws to fool some people (perhaps) into thinking you might have a clue...

It all started with "zimmy's great" prove he isn't...
Its still Zimmy's 4-3 prove we will change...
Zimmy's the DB coach, prove he won't be...
Zimmy's a GREAT DC, prove he isn't...

Alas, I have proven over & over zimmy has been reduced to trying to learn greek...(3-4) and to "Not whine, just shut up & learn it"
hardly what a great DC would HAVE to DO...

I Nors & others knew he sucks and Parcells had to make changes, yet you needed "proof" now that you have been "proven" wrong so many times before, its reduced to "Prove he will just carry a clip board"

Thanks for keeping me and my fellow posters laughing...

However, I do agree its the players, but also the scheme, but most important THE COACH who has to make it all work to the STRENGTH of his players...Something zimmy has ALWAYS failed to do...

Its the question of camp IMHO, how much time will Parcells spend, teaching his 3-4...Because we all know its "greek" to zimmy WUSS!

 

[Doomsday101]

I am still laughing at you Hos...

Oh my how you have changed your tune over & over...
Now its reduced to prove zimmy won't do anything but hold a clipboard...ha ha...

What a joke, your still grasping at straws to fool some people (perhaps) into thinking you might have a clue...

It all started with "zimmy's great" prove he isn't...
Its still Zimmy's 4-3 prove we will change...
Zimmy's the DB coach, prove he won't be...
Zimmy's a GREAT DC, prove he isn't...

Alas, I have proven over & over zimmy has been reduced to trying to learn greek...(3-4) and to "Not whine, just shut up & learn it"
hardly what a great DC would HAVE to DO...

I Nors & others knew he sucks and Parcells had to make changes, yet you needed "proof" now that you have been "proven" wrong so many times before, its reduced to "Prove he will just carry a clip board"

Thanks for keeping me and my fellow posters laughing...

However, I do agree its the players, but also the scheme, but most important THE COACH who has to make it all work to the STRENGTH of his players...Something zimmy has ALWAYS failed to do...

Its the question of camp IMHO, how much time will Parcells spend, teaching his 3-4...Because we all know its "greek" to zimmy WUSS!

You have not proven anything, if he was as bad as you claim he would be gone yet Parcells did not fire him. Zimmer is the DC like it or not. If the defense fails that falls squarly on Zimmer and if they succeed that also goes to Zimmer.

 

[lcharles]

i'd still take my chances with Too-Tall, Harvey Martin, Manster, and Jethro Pugh.

Matter of fact, Haley,Tolbert, Cassillas, and Hennings would work just fine as well.

Oh well, am I the only old timer that will find it difficult to get used to seeing the 3-4 in Big D?

It's gonna be a strange sight. Hope it works, that will make it easier to accept.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

i'd still take my chances with Too-Tall, Harvey Martin, Manster, and Jethro Pugh.

Matter of fact, Haley,Tolbert, Cassillas, and Hennings would work just fine as well.

Oh well, am I the only old timer that will find it difficult to get used to seeing the 3-4 in Big D?

It's gonna be a strange sight. Hope it works, that will make it easier to accept.

Nice post.

 

[Doomsday101]

i'd still take my chances with Too-Tall, Harvey Martin, Manster, and Jethro Pugh.

Matter of fact, Haley,Tolbert, Cassillas, and Hennings would work just fine as well.

Oh well, am I the only old timer that will find it difficult to get used to seeing the 3-4 in Big D?

It's gonna be a strange sight. Hope it works, that will make it easier to accept.

I like the 4-3 as well but I do understand this is a copy cat league and right now the team at the top NE uses both the 3-4 and the 4-3 and I can promise you Dallas will not be the only team to use both defense

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I like the 4-3 as well but I do understand this is a copy cat league and right now the team at the top NE uses both the 3-4 and the 4-3 and I can promise you Dallas will not be the only team to use both defense

I wish we would copy Baltimore and use a 4-6. Still, the most dominating defense I've ever seen. The Bears and Philly with Buddy Ryan were teams I hated to face.

 

[Doomsday101]

I wish we would copy Baltimore and use a 4-6. Still, the most dominating defense I've ever seen. The Bears and Philly with Buddy Ryan were teams I hated to face.

It can be great it is also more of a high risk defense that can give up big plays. One thing for sure both the Bears and Eagles at those times had very talented players within the front 7 without that your toast

 

[Seven]

It isn't the scheme folks, it's the 11 guys on the field and what they can do. .

End of discussion. Hopefully................

 

[blindzebra]

Ahh, the magical scheme nonsense again.

We can get just as much pressure, probably more, with a 4-3 and here is why.

In a 3-4 you are pretty much reducing any chance for the DL to make a lot of plays behind the LOS, because...pay attention Hollywood...they occupy and engage.

Your pressure would come from Ware, Burnett and Williams.

In a 4-3 you could get 6-10 sacks from Ellis, Glover, and Spears EASILY because of the depth we have behind them.

And guess what, you could still bring Ware, Burnett and Williams.

The 4-3 puts more players with pass rushing ability on the field without tying up the DL to eat up blockers and it would not be as vulnerable to the run.

We don't have depth at NT and we have too many questions at LB.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ahh, the magical scheme nonsense again.

We can get just as much pressure, probably more, with a 4-3 and here is why.

In a 3-4 you are pretty much reducing any chance for the DL to make a lot of plays behind the LOS, because...pay attention Hollywood...they occupy and engage.

Your pressure would come from Ware, Burnett and Williams.

In a 4-3 you could get 6-10 sacks from Ellis, Glover, and Spears EASILY because of the depth we have behind them.

And guess what, you could still bring Ware, Burnett and Williams.

The 4-3 puts more players with pass rushing ability on the field without tying up the DL to eat up blockers and it would not be as vulnerable to the run.

We don't have depth at NT and we have too many questions at LB.

Correct. Too bad a certain person... I won't give you his name because I don't want to incite him but I'll spell it backwards "SRON", thinks the scheme is everything. Between him and the brain surgeon HH, those guys think you can put Brainpaint, Juke and myself out there and if you're aggressive you'll have a top rated defense.