Calvin Watkins comment re Rivera...

sago1

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According to Calvin Watkins video of Thursday's OTA Riveria told him (among other things) that he still had nerve damage problems in his back and leg problem as well. Although Rivera still wants to play again in the NFL no time given but Rivera also wants to coach someday. So I really hope when Jerry Jones cut him he also offered him the opportunity to become an asst OL coach when's Rivera calls it quits.
 

THUMPER

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sago1;1523535 said:
According to Calvin Watkins video of Thursday's OTA Riveria told him (among other things) that he still had nerve damage problems in his back and leg problem as well. Although Rivera still wants to play again in the NFL no time given but Rivera also wants to coach someday. So I really hope when Jerry Jones cut him he also offered him the opportunity to become an asst OL coach when's Rivera calls it quits.

I would love for Rivera to become and assistant coach for us.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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Even if he only has damage to the nerve sheathing it still would seem that he has no chance to come back. nerve damage takes forever to heal.

my brother had a lamenectomy which is a fusion of the vertebrae and the surgeon caused some nerve damage. The actual hardware and fusion went fine but even after 5 years he still deals with excruciating pain although it has lessened severely from when the labrum was first damaged.

Now im not saying that Rivera is nearly as bad off as he is but the nerves are going to stay damaged for quite some time.
 

CalCBFan

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Ditto sago1 and THUMPER. From the comments of the players I was thinking "why don't they offer him a job as a coach?" Maybe he's thinking of a career in sportscasting. I think Rivera is bilingual...
 

BourbonBalz

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CalCBFan;1523683 said:
Ditto sago1 and THUMPER. From the comments of the players I was thinking "why don't they offer him a job as a coach?" Maybe he's thinking of a career in sportscasting. I think Rivera is bilingual...

No need to delve into a player's personal life!!!!! :laugh2:
 

jobberone

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FuzzyLumpkins;1523650 said:
Even if he only has damage to the nerve sheathing it still would seem that he has no chance to come back. nerve damage takes forever to heal.

my brother had a lamenectomy which is a fusion of the vertebrae and the surgeon caused some nerve damage. The actual hardware and fusion went fine but even after 5 years he still deals with excruciating pain although it has lessened severely from when the labrum was first damaged.

Now im not saying that Rivera is nearly as bad off as he is but the nerves are going to stay damaged for quite some time.

Sorry about him. The usual cause of nerve problems with backs are from crush. You can have injury during surgery but usually you get a crush which is more a squeeze from surrounding elements be it bone, connective tissue or disc. Of course scar tissue and injection can also cause problems.

With the chronic compression u get pain as the part of the spine carrying a load of pain fibers often gets involved by being in the vicinity of the causal problem. Crush it long enough and you get atrophy which causes weakness in the motor neuron to muscle units it supplies. The muscles finally atrophy and the nerve somewhere along that line get atrophied enough to never come back. They get white and pale and smaller with less vessels.

It doesn't always have to get that bad. The earlier you reverse the crush the less likely permanent damage or at lease you can stop it and allow it to struggle back towards normal.

So its not inevitable to get nerve damage then nerve and muscle atrophy but it happens too often.

Dorsal problems affect the chord differently due to size differences in the thoracic areas of note and the symptoms patients get from it. But the surgical approaches are much more dangerous there and the incident of spinal injury is vastly higher and more dangerous including paralysis. The cervical area has a better suggest rate but has its caveats as well. It's an interesting field and they've come a long way period and esp for athletes.

Depending on the area and causations then you can expect certain problems. Mostly though they can get to neuronal injury soon enough to avoid too much muscle atrophy allowing the pro to be able to bounce back.

Remember the larger the nerve and muscle the more attentuated the problems will be. The pro has a better chance of fighting thru them as the relative damage to a huge muscle is temperating. And rehabb is getting better with e-stim, muscle training, as well as pt and other rehab. And players get happier with knowing there chancd is high and can be favorably influenced by working long and hard.

Ususally severe pain in an older process is not necessarily a bad sign but its not as good as more conventional pain.

Hope this helps some. I'd rather havd a achilles tendon injury at the insertion now than a few years ago than a back injury esp the second sx. Everyone is different.


BTW Ellis has an excellent chance of playing well this year. I expect no fall off and he should improve his skills over last year. Again can't guarantee all will go well but there is no good reason to not be expecting Ellis to play and start at OLB.

Go Boys.
 

FuzzyLumpkins

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jobberone;1523915 said:
Sorry about him. The usual cause of nerve problems with backs are from crush. You can have injury during surgery but usually you get a crush which is more a squeeze from surrounding elements be it bone, connective tissue or disc. Of course scar tissue and injection can also cause problems.

With the chronic compression u get pain as the part of the spine carrying a load of pain fibers often gets involved by being in the vicinity of the causal problem. Crush it long enough and you get atrophy which causes weakness in the motor neuron to muscle units it supplies. The muscles finally atrophy and the nerve somewhere along that line get atrophied enough to never come back. They get white and pale and smaller with less vessels.

It doesn't always have to get that bad. The earlier you reverse the crush the less likely permanent damage or at lease you can stop it and allow it to struggle back towards normal.

So its not inevitable to get nerve damage then nerve and muscle atrophy but it happens too often.

Dorsal problems affect the chord differently due to size differences in the thoracic areas of note and the symptoms patients get from it. But the surgical approaches are much more dangerous there and the incident of spinal injury is vastly higher and more dangerous including paralysis. The cervical area has a better suggest rate but has its caveats as well. It's an interesting field and they've come a long way period and esp for athletes.

Depending on the area and causations then you can expect certain problems. Mostly though they can get to neuronal injury soon enough to avoid too much muscle atrophy allowing the pro to be able to bounce back.

Remember the larger the nerve and muscle the more attentuated the problems will be. The pro has a better chance of fighting thru them as the relative damage to a huge muscle is temperating. And rehabb is getting better with e-stim, muscle training, as well as pt and other rehab. And players get happier with knowing there chancd is high and can be favorably influenced by working long and hard.

Ususally severe pain in an older process is not necessarily a bad sign but its not as good as more conventional pain.

Hope this helps some. I'd rather havd a achilles tendon injury at the insertion now than a few years ago than a back injury esp the second sx. Everyone is different.


BTW Ellis has an excellent chance of playing well this year. I expect no fall off and he should improve his skills over last year. Again can't guarantee all will go well but there is no good reason to not be expecting Ellis to play and start at OLB.

Go Boys.

I actually appreciate it Job. Im going to forward the info to him and see what he has to say.

Im not a doctor and what I know of back injuries and surguries is exclusively from helping my brother out that first year postop. It was actually pretty strange. Immediately post op he was having a hard time but that is to be expected when they replace discs in your back with cages and shoot screws into your sipne but he started to get better. However once the swelling went down that is when the real trouble began. It is to be expected that nerves that were no longer being compressed to cause issues but it continued on.

The strange part was the surgeons response. I look back at it now and I see a guy concerned with a malpractice suit but my brother is not one to litigate and even after telling his doctor that the guy was only interested in the state of the hardware and was completely disinterested in the nerve inflammation that was continuing up and past a year post op.

He had 4 vertebrae in the lower lumbar fused so from what you are saying that is less problematic but his labrum for lack of a better term was jacked for years and its only been after these years that he no longer gets pain extending from hsi lower back through his legs down into his feet continuosly.

Thats why I said that nerve damage takes forever to heal because ive seen it first hand.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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sago1;1523535 said:
According to Calvin Watkins video of Thursday's OTA Riveria told him (among other things) that he still had nerve damage problems in his back and leg problem as well. Although Rivera still wants to play again in the NFL no time given but Rivera also wants to coach someday. So I really hope when Jerry Jones cut him he also offered him the opportunity to become an asst OL coach when's Rivera calls it quits.

Oh, lord. But what he really wants to do is become a coach. And direct. And maybe become a TV anchorman.

I wonder what makes him think that out of hundreds put out to pasture that he's coaching material.
 

GimmeTheBall!

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jobberone;1523915 said:
Sorry about him. The usual cause of nerve problems with backs are from crush. You can have injury during surgery but usually you get a crush which is more a squeeze from surrounding elements be it bone, connective tissue or disc. Of course scar tissue and injection can also cause problems.

With the chronic compression u get pain as the part of the spine carrying a load of pain fibers often gets involved by being in the vicinity of the causal problem. Crush it long enough and you get atrophy which causes weakness in the motor neuron to muscle units it supplies. The muscles finally atrophy and the nerve somewhere along that line get atrophied enough to never come back. They get white and pale and smaller with less vessels.

It doesn't always have to get that bad. The earlier you reverse the crush the less likely permanent damage or at lease you can stop it and allow it to struggle back towards normal.

So its not inevitable to get nerve damage then nerve and muscle atrophy but it happens too often.

Dorsal problems affect the chord differently due to size differences in the thoracic areas of note and the symptoms patients get from it. But the surgical approaches are much more dangerous there and the incident of spinal injury is vastly higher and more dangerous including paralysis. The cervical area has a better suggest rate but has its caveats as well. It's an interesting field and they've come a long way period and esp for athletes.

Depending on the area and causations then you can expect certain problems. Mostly though they can get to neuronal injury soon enough to avoid too much muscle atrophy allowing the pro to be able to bounce back.

Remember the larger the nerve and muscle the more attentuated the problems will be. The pro has a better chance of fighting thru them as the relative damage to a huge muscle is temperating. And rehabb is getting better with e-stim, muscle training, as well as pt and other rehab. And players get happier with knowing there chancd is high and can be favorably influenced by working long and hard.

Ususally severe pain in an older process is not necessarily a bad sign but its not as good as more conventional pain.

Hope this helps some. I'd rather havd a achilles tendon injury at the insertion now than a few years ago than a back injury esp the second sx. Everyone is different.


BTW Ellis has an excellent chance of playing well this year. I expect no fall off and he should improve his skills over last year. Again can't guarantee all will go well but there is no good reason to not be expecting Ellis to play and start at OLB.

Go Boys.

I don't know where all this optimism re Ellis and his AT injury comes from.
As someone whose AT was severed, I can tell you the actual recovery time is long, the rehab is longer and the getting back to 100% is just as long.

I really doubt he'll be planting his foot and pivoting the way he used to. Part of it will be the slightly limited extension of the tendon and the other part psychological. You never really want to maximize the pressure on the tendon just out of human nature. And that is to protect an injured limb or one you do not want to reinjure.

Ellis playing at 100% this season is a pipe dream.
More like 80%. And with aging and diminishing skills, that is optimistic.
 

AbeBeta

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THUMPER;1523631 said:
I would love for Rivera to become and assistant coach for us.

yep. seems like he'd be a great one. that ability is why Parcells was after him in the first place
 

cowboyed

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Star4Ever;1523761 said:
No need to delve into a player's personal life!!!!! :laugh2:

Rivera is bilingual and smart so does that make him cunninlingual?
 

Dhragon

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GimmeTheBall!;1523967 said:
I don't know where all this optimism re Ellis and his AT injury comes from.
As someone whose AT was severed, I can tell you the actual recovery time is long, the rehab is longer and the getting back to 100% is just as long.

I really doubt he'll be planting his foot and pivoting the way he used to. Part of it will be the slightly limited extension of the tendon and the other part psychological. You never really want to maximize the pressure on the tendon just out of human nature. And that is to protect an injured limb or one you do not want to reinjure.

Ellis playing at 100% this season is a pipe dream.
More like 80%. And with aging and diminishing skills, that is optimistic.

Ellis hasn't played at 100% in a very long time. Remember how awesome he appeared after we first drafted him. He ran a number of turnovers in for long TDs. He was great. Then he got injured badly. He never fully recovered as he was never as explosive or fast afterwards. I think he's only been playing at 80% since. This latest injury and he'll be lucky to be playing at 70% of what he was when we drafted him.
 

AbeBeta

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Dhragon;1524045 said:
Ellis hasn't played at 100% in a very long time. Remember how awesome he appeared after we first drafted him. He ran a number of turnovers in for long TDs. He was great. Then he got injured badly. He never fully recovered as he was never as explosive or fast afterwards. I think he's only been playing at 80% since. This latest injury and he'll be lucky to be playing at 70% of what he was when we drafted him.

Ellis was very good after his injury. He had TWO TDs and both were kind of fluke plays. On one, it was some sort of short yardage deal and all the offensive players where lying in a pile under the D guys for half the run back. He wasn't fast at all.

The only year Ellis was slowed was the year after his injury was the year after - and he said regularly that the rod in his leg bothered him.
 

jobberone

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FuzzyLumpkins;1523951 said:
I actually appreciate it Job. Im going to forward the info to him and see what he has to say.

Im not a doctor and what I know of back injuries and surguries is exclusively from helping my brother out that first year postop. It was actually pretty strange. Immediately post op he was having a hard time but that is to be expected when they replace discs in your back with cages and shoot screws into your sipne but he started to get better. However once the swelling went down that is when the real trouble began. It is to be expected that nerves that were no longer being compressed to cause issues but it continued on.

The strange part was the surgeons response. I look back at it now and I see a guy concerned with a malpractice suit but my brother is not one to litigate and even after telling his doctor that the guy was only interested in the state of the hardware and was completely disinterested in the nerve inflammation that was continuing up and past a year post op.

He had 4 vertebrae in the lower lumbar fused so from what you are saying that is less problematic but his labrum for lack of a better term was jacked for years and its only been after these years that he no longer gets pain extending from hsi lower back through his legs down into his feet continuosly.

Thats why I said that nerve damage takes forever to heal because ive seen it first hand.

Four vertebrae is a big deal. I was talking about the size of the muscles. The bigger the muscle the better it can take some nerve atrophy; but only up to a point. I was talking specifically about the sciatic nerve. Sorry for the confusion. The more proximal the nerve damage the more difficult for it to heal. Don't get confused about different damage to the spine versus a compression injury to a peripheral nerve. There's vast difference between a compression nerve injury such as the median nerve at the wrist in carpal tunnel syndrome and a traumatic injury to the chord.

As far as the surgeon goes, he was concerned about the cage and screws breaking and causing more damage. And they break way too often. You don't want to try and help someone then have any relief of pain and symptoms undone and more by some device breaking and causing more damage than you started with. That's what he was and probably still is worried about. And four vertebrae is a lot to take on. I had a four level cleanup but had no fusion or device inserted. With a four level fusion you have to insert something or it will never last. But you have to always worry about the contraption breaking and not holding the repair together well. It's way more complicated than that. I'm sorry my lay language isn't better to explain it.

GimmeTheBall!;1523967 said:
I don't know where all this optimism re Ellis and his AT injury comes from.
As someone whose AT was severed, I can tell you the actual recovery time is long, the rehab is longer and the getting back to 100% is just as long.

I really doubt he'll be planting his foot and pivoting the way he used to. Part of it will be the slightly limited extension of the tendon and the other part psychological. You never really want to maximize the pressure on the tendon just out of human nature. And that is to protect an injured limb or one you do not want to reinjure.

Ellis playing at 100% this season is a pipe dream.
More like 80%. And with aging and diminishing skills, that is optimistic.

Well you can't extrapolate your experience to someone else. I know patients do it all the time and there is a general correlation. But it would be a mistake to think your operation and rehab would be the same.

There is no current reason to expect he won't be back and be successful. If and when he suffers a setback then we can worry. Until then it looks as if all is well. The fact he is running and cutting already is important. They wouldn't dare allow that if they didn't think the repair would hold up. Esp with a 6-6 265 pro athlete.

You are right to have some anxiety about it. It's not as if there were no injury. But I think he's skated around it. And orthopedics is the fastest advancing surgical specialty overall. They get better every year not only with techniques but also instruments and supplies in surgery as well as rehab. I'm not too surprised he is doing well. And at this point he's close to being back to normal. Can he tear it? Sure but he's close to being back to the same risk as the general population. In other words he's just as likely to tear his other one.

abersonc;1524087 said:
Ellis was very good after his injury. He had TWO TDs and both were kind of fluke plays. On one, it was some sort of short yardage deal and all the offensive players where lying in a pile under the D guys for half the run back. He wasn't fast at all.

The only year Ellis was slowed was the year after his injury was the year after - and he said regularly that the rod in his leg bothered him.

And that is normal as you know. He's shown no limp and I seriously doubt if there is any asymmetry in the strength and function of either leg. In other words he's back to normal. Which is really something of a mircle compared to ten years ago and sooner. One of my children had the same thing happen and she still limps at times. Of course she didn't have the rehab Ellis did.

Ellis will be functionally near 100% by the start of the season. And near that in terms of having the repair stay intact.

Not too worry. Maybe they can suture his mouth closed for awhile.
 
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