Can we develop our own tush push?

StarOfGlory

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Can we do the Tush Push, a.k.a. the Brotherly Shove? Let's see...

One thing to get straight here: this is not a rugby scrum. If it to be compared to anything from rugby, it's what we call a maul. In a maul you try to bring a player down who has the ball while his teammates push with him. In a proper ruck the ball can even be handed off to player behind you and/or the player peels off and runs for more yards (meters, hehe). I've been waiting to see if that will ever be incorporated into this play.

Usually, there are three key players that make this play happen. One is Jason Kelce, who in my 60+ years of playing, watching, and coaching football, is the most athletic center I have ever seen. Two is Hurts, Mr. Super Legs himself. But there is a third person everyone forgets: Landon Dickerson, the massive 6'6", 335 pound left guard.

Kelce snaps the ball and is so quick to surge forward and create space. The Tush Push works because the Eagles O-line can protect the space behind Kelce. The key person in this regard is either Dickerson or Jurgens--usually Dickerson, because the play is usually run slightly offset to the left once motion is established. Kelce creates the initial space, but it's Dickerson who surges forward and protects what Kelce created. From what I hear, the other guard, Jurgens, is not large but has freakish strength. That helps.

The tackles, Johnson and Mailata, pinch in and attack the mass in front of Kelce while offering a bit of protection to the guards. This is important, as the best way to stop the Tush Push might be by attacking the guards, not the center. Teams try to go man up with the Eagles line, but if you go low, the maul can swarm over the line. If you take them straight up, it's pure mass and muscle vs. mass and muscle. Kelce is so quick he will always get to the point of attack first. Jurgens is strong as hell. Dickerson is 335, Johnson 330 and eats HGH, and Mailata has stated that his preferred playing weight is 380, not the 365 listed. Add to the mix a QB who has old school middle linebacker strength, and a pusher (or two), and the play become damn near impossible to stop for a short gain. Once the maul gains momentum, it's just too hard to stop. The pushers, more often than not, are not even needed.

Right now, no team has figured out a way to control the space behind Kelce. Until they do, perhaps we can copy this play. Do we have the personnel to pull it off?

Guards? We have the guards to pull this off! Smith and Dickerson will be fighting it out for Pro Bowl and maybe All-Pro for years to come. Zack is still one of the best RG's in the land.
Tackles? A healthy Tyron can do this! Steele? Not sure. He hasn't shown great strength since his injury. I give him the benefit of the doubt, as I don't believe he is fully recovered.
Center? Biadadz is a good center, but does not compare in any way to Kelce.
QB? Dak is big enough and strong. Alright, he might not be Hurts strong, but he's no Kyler Murray/Bryce Young midget either.
Coaching? I don't know. Maybe bring in a rugby coach to teach how to maul.
Pusher? Sure--hell, the Eagles don't even have a true big back and they do it.

Hey, if you can't beat them, join them, right? You never know until you try. I believe we have enough talent up front to give it a go.
 

big dog cowboy

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I said during training camp all we needed was to put Micah in the backfield with Deuce and just have Micah throw Deuce over the line.
 

_sturt_

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It's just too hard to copy. The Eagles have the combination of a great OL and a great QB built for it. Not just any QB can line up and get those yards...it doesn't matter if you're tall. Josh Allen is 6'5" and when the Bills tried it, they got the yard but just barely. Hurts is the perfect combination of size and strength to be able to make it work.
All due respect, I've heard this like everyone else has, several times, but I don't buy it. I won't say "anyone can do it," but there are comparable O-lines and comparable QBs in the league. It's mainly a matter of technique, and a matter of a coach taking the time necessary to perfect it. And my speculation is that most coaches don't want to take that amount of time on a play that's going to get you 1 yard when they could be practicing plays designed to get 5 to 50 yards. The only exceptional thing is that the PHI QB has more strength in his thighs... which is fine, that speaks to an additional asset, but it doesn't on its own say anything about, in our case, Dak's leg strength. We're not talking about a small man here. We could do this, I'm confident. It's just not been a priority.
 

_sturt_

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There you go! instead of what's become an acceptable scrum advancement of the ball carrier just have him hop on the back the biggest baddazz you got and have the jumbo package o-line surround him and march forward!
As it plays out in my mind, it's such a surprise attack the first time McCarthy calls the play, Sam hits the line and it catapults Deuce off his shoulders and over top of the scrum... Deuce lands on his damn feet... untouched... and makes a bee line for the end zone, no safeties in sight... and the NFL and The Espys has the play of the year just like that.
 

Chuck 54

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It’s not about the guy running it. I’ve watched plenty of the Eagles, and Hurts does nothing special.
It’s all about the center and their left guard. They get low without going down, and they root DTs out of there.
Think about it…if the DTs truly penetrated or got under the OL or even created a stalemate, the QB isn’t going to push that pile when there are LBs and DBs pushing from the other side. The guys behind the QB basically guide him into weak spots, help push, but also make sure he isn’t pulled down from side penetration. The incredible push they get is the interior of the OL, which is the best in the NFL….period.
 

TheSport78

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Let's grab a HOF center and a QB that can squat 600 lbs and I think we'd be onto something.
 

harris33

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Not sure it's the center, Dickerson is one big dude and they generally go in his direction. Makes Kelce look pretty small.Couldn't figure out how to put a still shot in.but he is one big dude.
 
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_sturt_

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If you've not yet seen this, you should. It seriously informs the question that is the topic of this thread...

About the 7:30 mark:

"Truth be told, Hurts isn't even on the ground to push with his legs in half of these shove plays anyway."

 

JoeKing

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We don't have the personnel for an effective tush push. But there is more than one way to pick up that must have yard or so. Be creative.
 

plasticman

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Put Mazi and Hankins in as the fullback and halfback. Have Dak run behind Martin with Mazi and Hankins pushing behind Dak.

As soon as the play is over, rush oxygen to the field for Dak. he may have a slight breathing problem.
 

_sturt_

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We don't have the personnel for an effective tush push.
Couldn't disagree more, really. It's been a too easy conclusion. What's lacking isn't talent or strength, it's technique and the decision to prioritize using valuable practice time on a play that only yields 1-2 yards when you can be using that same practice time on plays designed to yield so much more. It's a choice we've made, as far as it appears. And it's not actually completely unreasonable. And it may be that we really can't afford during the season to invest time into it--has to be started in training camp. Dunno. But as the analysis above teases it out, clearly we have the bodies... we just don't have the technique. Yet, at least.
 

Whirlwin

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No, you just need to make the first down on third down
 

JoeKing

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Couldn't disagree more, really. It's been a too easy conclusion. What's lacking isn't talent or strength, it's technique and the decision to prioritize using valuable practice time on a play that only yields 1-2 yards when you can be using that same practice time on plays designed to yield so much more. It's a choice we've made, as far as it appears. And it's not actually completely unreasonable. And it may be that we really can't afford during the season to invest time into it--has to be started in training camp. Dunno. But as the analysis above teases it out, clearly we have the bodies... we just don't have the technique. Yet, at least.
An effective Tush Push requires a full-size center with real man strength. That's not the undersized center, Tyler Biadasz. It also requires a QB with superior strength. Jalen Hurts has deadlifted 620 lbs. So Dak doesn't fit that bill either. Go ahead and disagree, show your ignorance to the world. You don't know what you are talking about. The technique you speak of is critical but it must be executed with the right power.
 

_sturt_

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Go ahead and disagree, show your ignorance to the world.
hehe

Clearly a man who knows his tush push so well. Thanks for the attempt to set me straight. But I'm hopeless, I really am... I actually believe this stuff... ie, my eyes and ears.

If you've not yet seen this, you should. It seriously informs the question that is the topic of this thread...

About the 7:30 mark:

"Truth be told, Hurts isn't even on the ground to push with his legs in half of these shove plays anyway."

 
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