Can we have a better defense than New England 04?

[Galian Beast]

I really think we can.

They don't have anyone as good as Terence Newman (Ty Law played 7 games) and I think Roy Williams can be JUST AS GOOD as Rodney Harrison, if not better.

The key would be getting a free safety better than Eugene Wilson. That shouldn't be too hard...

Anthony Henry is better than either Randall Gay or Asante Samuel.

That leaves our front seven...

Ty Warren and Richard Seymour versus Chris Canty and Marcus Spears. I think we have them on this one. I honestly do. Obviously neither is the pass threat that Richard Seymour is, but I think they'll develop together into being a much bigger pass threat. Throw in Ellis in terms of pass rush, and we certainly have them beat.

While we don't have a vince wilfork (he wasn't really key in all their super bowls only their last one). Jason Ferguson is just as good as Ted Washington or Keith Traylor.

The important factor is the linebackers. If we get McGinest, like I think we will we'll be very close.

McGinest vs Mcginest = Scratch
Ware vs Vrabel = Ware
Bruschi vs Bradie James = I think Bradie James will be better. Even after his first year in the 3-4, he had quite a bit of success. Certainly comparable to Bruschi in numbers.

We really need someone as good or better than Ted Johnson. Which during their super bowl years wasn't GREAT.

I think our defense is close to the Patriots (but just getting to the prime of their careers, rather than at the end).

Anthony Henry will turn 30 this year, but he has only been in the league for 5 years (6 counting this coming year that he is turning 30). Newman is turning 28 (but will only have 4 years pro), and roy williams is turning 26. If we can find that young free safety, it'll be a wrap.

Marcus Spears is 23, is turning 24. Bradie James is 25. Chris Canty is turning 24.

Even Jason Ferguson isn't THAT old. He is turning 32 this year. Probably has a good 3 or 4 years left. More than enough time for us to find a replacement. Ted Washington is turning 38 this year just to compare someone at the same position.

We find us our Eugene Wilson, Ted Johnson, and sign Willie McGinest... and you'll see a vastly improved defense. Especially with Ware, Spears, Canty in their sophmore years, and Bradie James turning into a solid veteran.

 

[playit12]

The key to the New England defense is in their LBers and DE's. While we have some promising players, we are no where near where they are in that regard yet.

And I serioiusly disagree with some of the homerism...

Brady is not the equal to Bruschi
We don't have McGinest (nor will we probably)
We don't have anyone on the front 3 as good as Richard Seymour, and Ty Warren is probably at least as good as our best person there.

The biggest issue is LB though. We have 1 good and 1 above average player. The pats, in their prime, were starting 4 really good guys at LB.

 

[Ashwynn]

You did not say please....so no.

No Bruschi for you......

 

[Galian Beast]

Also while I don't want to compare Bledsoe/Henson to Brady just yet. I can say we can definitely surround our quarterbacks with better talent on offense than they had in New England as well.

We certainly have a better receiving corps:
Branch vs Glenn = glenn

Givens vs Keyshawn Johnson =johnson

Patten vs Crayton = I'm gonna go ahead and give this to crayton in terms of potential and opportunity to play. The best Patten did was 800 yards in a season (824 to be exact). Crayton did 341 as the 3rd receiver, in a season coming off a fairly major injury that cost him 5 games.

Tight Ends
Witten/Campbell certainly win out over Graham/Watson

Running Backs
I'll give Corey Dillon the nod over Julius Jones. But they only won 1 super bowl with Dillon. I'd say that Julius Jones has the potential to be better than Corey Dillon. And our over all running back corps is certainly better than theirs ever was (especially for their first super bowls).

As for the offensive line

Matt Light
Joe Andruzzi
damien woody
steve neal
tom Ashworth

I think we can do better... and that is really the only thing on offense that we need to fix. We get a fullback, and fix this line, in addition to what i said on defense + a kicker...

 

[Galian Beast]

I think you're underestimating Bradie James. By the numbers Bradie James had a good a year as Bruschi ever had during the super bowls.

Bradie James - 93 tackles, 73 solo, 2.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 4 passes deflected

Bruschi
2001 75 tackles, 54 solo, 2 sacks, 2 interceptions, 3 forced fumbles 1 pass deflected
2002 66 tackles, 46 solo, 4.5 sacks, 2 interceptions, 5 passes deflected, 1 forced fumble
2004 122 tackles, 76 solo, 3.5 sacks, 3 interceptions, 3 passes deflected, 3 forced fumbles

and take into account that this 6th, 7th, and 9th year pro.

 

[ravidubey]

Ty Warren and Richard Seymour versus Chris Canty and Marcus Spears. I think we have them on this one.

Blue and Silver tinted glasses here. Seymour is the best DL in the nation.

 

[Galian Beast]

And there is a very good chance that McGinest signs with us. He is almost certainly going to be released, and the two top places he would probably sign with are dallas and cleveland...

as for seymour and warren...

Other than in 2003 (8), the most sacks seymour ever had was 5.5. and he usually has between 39-57 tackles, and he doesn't really force many fumbles.

Chris Canty in limited playing time, in his rookie year got 35 tackles, 2.5 sacks, and 1 forced fumble, and this is all with as little preparation as you could imagine.

On the other side Marcus Spears (also with limited playing time, and limited preparation for the season) had 31 tackles, 1.5 sacks.

Ty warren has 33 tackles in 03, 48 tackles in 04, and 68 tackles in 05. 1 sack in 03, 3.5 sacks in 02, and 1.5 sacks in 05. 2 career forced fumbles.

The upside of Spears and Canty are going to be much higher...

Now its time to bring in greg ellis' numbers for 05...

35 tackles, 8 sacks, 2 forced fumbles....

 

[Galian Beast]

Seymour is certainly not the best linemen in the nation. I'd much rather have julius peppers or dwight freeney.

Parcells simply got himself another defensive end duo like he did with Ellis and Abraham. A DE combo ALSO better than New Englands.

 

[visionary]

I really think we can.

They don't have anyone as good as Terence Newman (Ty Law played 7 games) and I think Roy Williams can be JUST AS GOOD as Rodney Harrison, if not better.

The key would be getting a free safety better than Eugene Wilson. That shouldn't be too hard...

Anthony Henry is better than either Randall Gay or Asante Samuel.

That leaves our front seven...

Ty Warren and Richard Seymour versus Chris Canty and Marcus Spears. I think we have them on this one. I honestly do. Obviously neither is the pass threat that Richard Seymour is, but I think they'll develop together into being a much bigger pass threat. Throw in Ellis in terms of pass rush, and we certainly have them beat.

While we don't have a vince wilfork (he wasn't really key in all their super bowls only their last one). Jason Ferguson is just as good as Ted Washington or Keith Traylor.

The important factor is the linebackers. If we get McGinest, like I think we will we'll be very close.

McGinest vs Mcginest = Scratch
Ware vs Vrabel = Ware
Bruschi vs Bradie James = I think Bradie James will be better. Even after his first year in the 3-4, he had quite a bit of success. Certainly comparable to Bruschi in numbers.

We really need someone as good or better than Ted Johnson. Which during their super bowl years wasn't GREAT.

I think our defense is close to the Patriots (but just getting to the prime of their careers, rather than at the end).

Anthony Henry will turn 30 this year, but he has only been in the league for 5 years (6 counting this coming year that he is turning 30). Newman is turning 28 (but will only have 4 years pro), and roy williams is turning 26. If we can find that young free safety, it'll be a wrap.

Marcus Spears is 23, is turning 24. Bradie James is 25. Chris Canty is turning 24.

Even Jason Ferguson isn't THAT old. He is turning 32 this year. Probably has a good 3 or 4 years left. More than enough time for us to find a replacement. Ted Washington is turning 38 this year just to compare someone at the same position.

We find us our Eugene Wilson, Ted Johnson, and sign Willie McGinest... and you'll see a vastly improved defense. Especially with Ware, Spears, Canty in their sophmore years, and Bradie James turning into a solid veteran.

any good defense has 2 components, talent and scheme

so while you compared talent in your post what about the person putting together the scheme and calling the shots?

you forgot the most important comparison

bellichicken vs zimmy

zimmy hands down right?

::laugh2:

 

[BeWare94]

Also while I don't want to compare Bledsoe/Henson to Brady just yet. I can say we can definitely surround our quarterbacks with better talent on offense than they had in New England as well.

The point that you are so sorely missing is that Brady is the biggest reason that New England was successful. The guy just doesn't crack under pressure. Other guys can put up bigger numbers and better stats but when the game is on the line and the pressure comes crashing down Brady is the only quarterback in the game right now who is truly unflappable. That's why the Patriots have been better than everyone else.

We couldn't easily have as good a defense as New England had because personnel isn't what sets the Patriot Defense apart it's Bill Belichick who is the league's premier guru on that side of the ball...meanwhile we are stuck with the village idiot.

 

[BeWare94]

Seymour is certainly not the best linemen in the nation. I'd much rather have julius peppers or dwight freeney.

Parcells simply got himself another defensive end duo like he did with Ellis and Abraham. A DE combo ALSO better than New Englands.

I'd take any of those guys over Greg Ellis. He's been stealing Jerry Jones' money for years.

 

[Galian Beast]

I know a lot of you don't like Zimmer, but he is thought of as one of the most gifted defense minds in the nfl.

And you give him another year or two under the 3-4, and he's going to shock you with what his expertise can bring to the table. Still wonder why he gets no credit for posting the #1 defense in the nation in 03 (with crappy players). Ranked in the top 10 in the league, five times out of nine seasons. six times in the top 10 in pass defense.

Read his freaking bio for goodness sakes.

 

[Galian Beast]

Ellis has been stealing Jones' money for years? I honestly don't know what you expect out of a defensive end...

He is well under paid, and has had huge success in the last few years...

52 sacks in 8 years...

Has had at least 6 sacks a year since 2001... and at least 7.5 since 2002...

You're out of your mind...

 

[TheHustler]

Bruschi vs Bradie James = I think Bradie James will be better. Even after his first year in the 3-4, he had quite a bit of success. Certainly comparable to Bruschi in numbers.

After one decent season Bradie James has turned into one of the leagues best LBs according to some people here, an emerging star.

Ridiculous. He was decent last year, nothing more. He may become one of the leagues best, but he's not there yet, not even close.

James can't touch Bruschi before his injury.

 

[Maxmadden]

I'd take any of those guys over Greg Ellis. He's been stealing Jerry Jones' money for years.

While there are guys I'd rather have than Ellis he has never stole a dime. He has been one of the only consistent players we have had since the superbowl era on some pretty bad teams. He could have made alot more money elsewhere, to accuse him of stealing is blashemy.

 

[Galian Beast]

Hustler, learn to read. I didn't say he was better than Bruschi, I said he had the potential. WILL BE, as in future tense. Not present.