Can Win Super Bowl With A Highly Paid QB

817Gill

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*long post*

We hear this phrase a lot, especially in the last 10 years or so of the salary cap era. This became a central argument point when discussion paying vs. not paying Dak and franchsie QB’s in general.

I’ve always been critical of that school of thought for two reasons. First of all, the data is statistically disingenuous because of the sample size as well as quanification of success.

Only a fraction of NFL QB’s are being measured for the past 25 years (salary cap era). There are only a few QB’s per year being paid that much, each with completely different organizational situations. Those 3/4 teams not winning the championship doesn’t automatically mean it’s because of their commonality in QB salary; there are hundreds of reasons a team fails to win a SB and to reduce them to the salary cap is lazy. It also takes away all culpability from the organization and it’s responsibilities.

Secondly, these statistics typically measure success solely by a SB win. This drastically reduces the amount of data listed for “successful” highly paid QB’s. A simple example would be Matt Ryan’s SB year. He doesn’t show up on the list of highly paid QB’s who’ve won SB’s, when in reality his salary didn’t cause them to lose the game. Teams have successful seasons when they reach a conference championship, because typically at that point your team has proved to be good enough to win it all. To say that not winning a SB is due to a QB’s salary would completely ignore the guys who got to NFCCG/AFCCG’s and lost a close competitive game, or guys who lost in the SB. If success in the exercise of who to pay at QB is solely dependent on SB’s, you’re going to skew your data.

Finally, this doesn’t mean that paying high percentage of the cap deals to a franchise QB doesn’t make team building more difficult. Obviously hitting on a Mahomes/Herbert type on a rookie deal and having the majority of your cap to spend on established starters/stars is the easiest way to build a team. FO’s just have to make sure they hit on their major FA acquisitions and premium draft picks. They have more leeway with errors and mid-round draft pick misfires, less tough decisions.

But that doesn’t mean signing a true franchise QB to a deal is a death sentence either. It just means that your drafting and FA acquisitions have much less room for error, while your coaching must be able to develop and elevate the roster. It’s a slimmer margin for error, but it’s definitely operable.

The good thing is the Cowboys FO’s philosophy for some time has been to acquire the majority of its talent from the draft and resign them, while using FA as a way to fill in the cracks with veteran starters/depth as picks develop. The only issue has been while the team has drafted well, FA has been hit and miss at best while coaching has been consistently below average. With coaching generally being much better (there is more to be desired with Mike but coordinators are money), the past few drafts proving to be even a step up from how we’ve done, and bargain bin FA’s finally hitting the way you intended them to; paying a franchise QB is no longer the death sentence we’ve been persuaded to believe it is.

Again, the margin for error is slim, but if the FO can keep drafting the way it has, keep an above average to high quality of coaching, plus hit on the annual 1/2-year bargain bin FA’s; they have a strategy for continual restock of roster talent while paying for a franchise QB.
 
*long post*

We hear this phrase a lot, especially in the last 10 years or so of the salary cap era. This became a central argument point when discussion paying vs. not paying Dak and franchsie QB’s in general.

I’ve always been critical of that school of thought for two reasons. First of all, the data is statistically disingenuous because of the sample size as well as quanification of success.

Only a fraction of NFL QB’s are being measured for the past 25 years (salary cap era). There are only a few QB’s per year being paid that much, each with completely different organizational situations. Those 3/4 teams not winning the championship doesn’t automatically mean it’s because of their commonality in QB salary; there are hundreds of reasons a team fails to win a SB and to reduce them to the salary cap is lazy. It also takes away all culpability from the organization and it’s responsibilities.

Secondly, these statistics typically measure success solely by a SB win. This drastically reduces the amount of data listed for “successful” highly paid QB’s. A simple example would be Matt Ryan’s SB year. He doesn’t show up on the list of highly paid QB’s who’ve won SB’s, when in reality his salary didn’t cause them to lose the game. Teams have successful seasons when they reach a conference championship, because typically at that point your team has proved to be good enough to win it all. To say that not winning a SB is due to a QB’s salary would completely ignore the guys who got to NFCCG/AFCCG’s and lost a close competitive game, or guys who lost in the SB. If success in the exercise of who to pay at QB is solely dependent on SB’s, you’re going to skew your data.

Finally, this doesn’t mean that paying high percentage of the cap deals to a franchise QB doesn’t make team building more difficult. Obviously hitting on a Mahomes/Herbert type on a rookie deal and having the majority of your cap to spend on established starters/stars is the easiest way to build a team. FO’s just have to make sure they hit on their major FA acquisitions and premium draft picks. They have more leeway with errors and mid-round draft pick misfires, less tough decisions.

But that doesn’t mean signing a true franchise QB to a deal is a death sentence either. It just means that your drafting and FA acquisitions have much less room for error, while your coaching must be able to develop and elevate the roster. It’s a slimmer margin for error, but it’s definitely operable.

The good thing is the Cowboys FO’s philosophy for some time has been to acquire the majority of its talent from the draft and resign them, while using FA as a way to fill in the cracks with veteran starters/depth as picks develop. The only issue has been while the team has drafted well, FA has been hit and miss at best while coaching has been consistently below average. With coaching generally being much better (there is more to be desired with Mike but coordinators are money), the past few drafts proving to be even a step up from how we’ve done, and bargain bin FA’s finally hitting the way you intended them to; paying a franchise QB is no longer the death sentence we’ve been persuaded to believe it is.

Again, the margin for error is slim, but if the FO can keep drafting the way it has, keep an above average to high quality of coaching, plus hit on the annual 1/2-year bargain bin FA’s; they have a strategy for continual restock of roster talent while paying for a franchise QB.
pretty sure that narrative was busted last year with Tom Brady..not sure of his salary but it was more then it was in NE..so didn't read all of this as its not going to age well but skimmed it and you are correct. if one can make it to the sb then one should be able to win it..ryan, goff, mahomes and few others have made it on big salary

which whomever would have won that game would have busted that narrative..
what was toms salary last year?
 
pretty sure that narrative was busted last year with Tom Brady..not sure of his salary but it was more then it was in NE..so didn't read this as its not going to age well..

which whomever would have won that game would have busted that narrative..
what was toms salary last year?
You didn’t read it lol? Wonder how many people are gonna just take the thread title as the real message of the thread. We are in agreement bud I’m saying it’s not the only way to build a successful team.

Wild how many people go to a forum to not read lol, just go on and respond out of context.
 
pretty sure that narrative was busted last year with Tom Brady..not sure of his salary but it was more then it was in NE..so didn't read all of this as its not going to age well but skimmed it and you are correct.

which whomever would have won that game would have busted that narrative..
what was toms salary last year?
28 million
 
You didn’t read it lol? Wonder how many people are gonna just take the thread title as the real message of the thread. We are in agreement bud I’m saying it’s not the only way to build a successful team.
I skimmed it and edited my response ok ... mind your own, trigger happy mcgraw lol
 
Cowboys dont spend big in free agency and build though the draft mostly. They typically resign their best players.
I think the Cowboys might be able to absorb Daks overvalued contract and massive cap hit.
 
I skimmed it and edited my response ok ... mind your own
Well it is my own since you responded to me it has to do with me lol. As you can see I’m dealing with a bunch of non-OP readers so it’s annoying a good thread topic is about to get hijacked by the no reading crowd smh.
 
Cowboys dont spend big in free agency and build though the draft mostly. They typically resign their best players.
I think the Cowboys might be able to absorb Daks overvalued contract.
Thank you
 
*long post*

We hear this phrase a lot, especially in the last 10 years or so of the salary cap era. This became a central argument point when discussion paying vs. not paying Dak and franchsie QB’s in general.

I’ve always been critical of that school of thought for two reasons. First of all, the data is statistically disingenuous because of the sample size as well as quanification of success.

Only a fraction of NFL QB’s are being measured for the past 25 years (salary cap era). There are only a few QB’s per year being paid that much, each with completely different organizational situations. Those 3/4 teams not winning the championship doesn’t automatically mean it’s because of their commonality in QB salary; there are hundreds of reasons a team fails to win a SB and to reduce them to the salary cap is lazy. It also takes away all culpability from the organization and it’s responsibilities.

Secondly, these statistics typically measure success solely by a SB win. This drastically reduces the amount of data listed for “successful” highly paid QB’s. A simple example would be Matt Ryan’s SB year. He doesn’t show up on the list of highly paid QB’s who’ve won SB’s, when in reality his salary didn’t cause them to lose the game. Teams have successful seasons when they reach a conference championship, because typically at that point your team has proved to be good enough to win it all. To say that not winning a SB is due to a QB’s salary would completely ignore the guys who got to NFCCG/AFCCG’s and lost a close competitive game, or guys who lost in the SB. If success in the exercise of who to pay at QB is solely dependent on SB’s, you’re going to skew your data.

Finally, this doesn’t mean that paying high percentage of the cap deals to a franchise QB doesn’t make team building more difficult. Obviously hitting on a Mahomes/Herbert type on a rookie deal and having the majority of your cap to spend on established starters/stars is the easiest way to build a team. FO’s just have to make sure they hit on their major FA acquisitions and premium draft picks. They have more leeway with errors and mid-round draft pick misfires, less tough decisions.

But that doesn’t mean signing a true franchise QB to a deal is a death sentence either. It just means that your drafting and FA acquisitions have much less room for error, while your coaching must be able to develop and elevate the roster. It’s a slimmer margin for error, but it’s definitely operable.

The good thing is the Cowboys FO’s philosophy for some time has been to acquire the majority of its talent from the draft and resign them, while using FA as a way to fill in the cracks with veteran starters/depth as picks develop. The only issue has been while the team has drafted well, FA has been hit and miss at best while coaching has been consistently below average. With coaching generally being much better (there is more to be desired with Mike but coordinators are money), the past few drafts proving to be even a step up from how we’ve done, and bargain bin FA’s finally hitting the way you intended them to; paying a franchise QB is no longer the death sentence we’ve been persuaded to believe it is.

Again, the margin for error is slim, but if the FO can keep drafting the way it has, keep an above average to high quality of coaching, plus hit on the annual 1/2-year bargain bin FA’s; they have a strategy for continual restock of roster talent while paying for a franchise QB.

I agree it's not a death sentence. It doesn't make it impossible, but it makes it more difficult. Similar to when people say rookie QBs don't go to super bowls. Is it because they are rookies? Or is it because 90% of the good one's go to crap teams?

The thing is. If you have a QB taking up 15-20% of your salary cap you're going to be at a huge disadvantage going up against another team with an equally good QB taking up nothing. That's just basic math. Yeah you could still have the better team, and you could still get there and win. But you're at a disadvantage. You'll find quarterbacks winning on rookie contracts far more often than not.
 
Well it is my own since you responded to me it has to do with me lol. As you can see I’m dealing with a bunch of non-OP readers so it’s annoying a good thread topic is about to get hijacked by the no reading crowd smh.
LOL well ok at least we agreed :)

like i said the tile is bit misleading a long read made me make up my mind with quick glance..it happens..o_O..Mahomes made it back carrying his 500 mil deal so there's that..they didnt lose over mahomes deal..they lost over their OL being short and mahomes with a bad toe..
 
pretty sure that narrative was busted last year with Tom Brady..not sure of his salary but it was more then it was in NE..so didn't read all of this as its not going to age well but skimmed it and you are correct. if one can make it to the sb then one should be able to win it..ryan, goff, mahomes and few others have made it on big salary

which whomever would have won that game would have busted that narrative..
what was toms salary last year?

No. Tom Brady's cap hit was relatively small last year. Just like his cap hit this year is 10 million. Mahomes and Goff made it to super bowls on rookie contracts.
 
It would be cool to have a QB not all wrapped up in himself and his $$$$, but ......good luck.

I am dead serious when I say I would make damn sure my offensive line is taken care of before worrying about my $$$$. I take what is left.

Paying running backs is just dumb, a dime a dozen. Pats all time rushing leader.....Sam Cunningham.
 
LOL well ok at least we agreed :)

like i said the tile is bit misleading a long read made me make up my mind with quick glance..it happens..o_O..Mahomes made it back carrying his 500 mil deal so there's that..they didnt lose over mahomes deal..they lost over their OL being short and mahomes with a bad toe..

Mahomes is still on his rookie contract. Even this year.
 
Mahomes is still on his rookie contract. Even this year.
i realize that now even thought it was signed i didn't realize the first 2 were still his old deal.

either way more and more of these 35-45mil deals are being handed out so that narrative will be busted..
 

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