Cancer Cured in Canada? Pharma in the Way?

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Canada's government refuses to pay as much because they are the main provider of healthcare in Canada and don't have anyone who can purchase nearly as much as they do.

health care is a provincial jurisdiction but your point is valid in that our govt pays for our health care although our pharmacare is not really that great

 

[skinsscalper]

I haven't read the entire thread, but Chris Rock hit the nail on the head. There's very little interest in "the cure". There's no money in it. The money is in the treatment.

 

[Doc50]

So, Canadian Cowboy -
How's the healthcare up there?
What I hear is that most folks are very satisfied
with the access and quality; not the crisis that
has been feared regarding a single payer system
in the US.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

http://i275.***BLOCKED***/albums/jj308/edias2k/AM%20Pics/Inbeforethelock.gif

 

[CliffnDallas]

There have been cures for most type's of cancer for decade's. There is simply to much money involved for to many people for a cure to be made public. A cured person makes no money. Sick people are cash cows.

 

[AbeBeta]

There have been cures for most type's of cancer for decade's. There is simply to much money involved for to many people for a cure to be made public. A cured person makes no money. Sick people are cash cows.

Those of you from Dallas sure love the conspiracy theories.

Cliff, can you hit me with some good book depository stuff to lull me to sleep?

 

[CliffnDallas]

Those of you from Dallas sure love the conspiracy theories.

Cliff, can you hit me with some good book depository stuff to lull me to sleep?

It's just an opinion. Though I do from time to time go down to Dealy Plaza and look for blood stains.

 

[Zaxor]

this is --> MY <-- experience with the medical care in both the USA and in Germany

in 1991 in the US I paid around $380 a month for family health care and had a $500 dollar deductible and the medicine was extremely high and had to go to certain clinic's where the wait was long and the care was competent.

2010 (last year I worked before a medical retirement) here in Germany I pay around $120 a month no deductible would pay no more than $15 (usually much less) on the needed medicine had my choice of doctor (specialist, general practitioner) here though I must say if you choose a specialist you wait time can be up to an hour or 2 by the GP the wait on average is about 20 minutes... I have gotten excellent care and the Dr.'s usually take's the time to explain in detail what it is you have and the the best treatment plan for you. Goes over what you should notice on the way to recovery and when to come back (sorta gives you a piece of mind and spirit) now I will also say this if I want micro fracture surgery on my knee my insurance is not going to pay it...though they will pay for the knee replacement...Elective surgeries are usually 99% not paid however needed ones are paid 100%... I have been medically retired for over 2 years now and have still had excellent healthcare...

I really am overall very happy with the system that is in place here and wish all the people of the world could enjoy its benefits. I was at the time okay with what I was paying and getting in the USA till I found out it could be much better and now I am saddened that so many of you good people are getting screwed and some of you were like me and didn't even know it.

 

[joseephuss]

The Earth is actually relatively small and several major countries are already suffering from overpopulation. It's not simply a question of size either, it's a question of resources. Curing cancer and AIDS however would cause the global population to move past 50 billion within the next 40 years, and this world simply cannot support that sort of population growth. Too many mouths to feed and too little liveable space.

How did you arrive at those numbers? Most estimates project the population of the Earth to be around 9 to 10 billion in the year 2050. There are about 3 million people who die from AIDS each year and 8 million who die from cancer each year. Adding back those approximately 11 million people a year for 40 years is barely 1/2 a billion people. Even if you multiplied that by a factor of 10 that only brings it up to 5 billion. Add that to the projected 10 billion and you get 15 billion, which is far less than the 50 billion you are throwing around.

The Earth has plenty of space to accommodate the people. It is the resources, most importantly a good, clean water supply that will be the limiting factor for the population.

 

[Doc50]

:bang2: Ok, Cliff, and all you conspiracy theorists -- there will never be a cure for cancer. Genetic mutations will continue to happen, and so will cancer.
We have made tremendous strides in prevention, early diagnosis, and treatment; this will continue to improve. But as life expectancy extends and the body ages, cancer will always be a consequence of that longevity, as will other longevity diseases such as dementia. In fact, people who live to be 100 will have a 1 in 3 chance of getting Alzheimer's, and that's the fastest growing segment of our population, due to our success with prevention of strokes, heart attacks, and cancer deaths.

So, have we cured anything? How about polio? Seen any cases of that recently? We have in fact eradicated many afflictions from the planet through world-wide vaccination programs. That success speaks for itself.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

1 out of 2 men and 1 out of 3 women will get some form of cancer in their lifetime in the United States (per my med school pathology professor). That's pretty prevalent, if you ask me.

What I meant was dying from cancer and AIDS is not that prevalent, from a global population perspective.

Lots of forms of cancer are perfectly treatable if detected early enough and when do most cancer victims become afflicted with the disease? When they are 70+ years old. Their life expectency is not much greater than that, meaning that they are likely to die from 'natural causes' or something else like heart disease if cancer didn't get them. So I don't see how curing cancer and AIDS would ruin the earth with overpopulation.

I think you could have said that about polio and small pox. Although one could argue the earth's population was smaller than that and the earth is far more industrialized now than when those cures were discovered. But, you could also argue the same point that the earth will become even more advanced to hold any population increase if any other disease was cured. So we just keep on running into a stalemate.






YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I really am overall very happy with the system that is in place here and wish all the people of the world could enjoy its benefits. I was at the time okay with what I was paying and getting in the USA till I found out it could be much better and now I am saddened that so many of you good people are getting screwed and some of you were like me and didn't even know it.

It starts at the hospital level and everybody ignores this.

I had this happen to me and later on a friend of mine wanted to check his sister's hospital bill to see if I was crazy or telling the truth.

I was in the hospital overnight. I have health insurance and it was paying for everything. But, on the bill I had a charge for a small, disposable cup of Orange Juice.

The charge?

$20.

For 1 disposable cup of OJ.

My friend's sister was in the hospital with cancer (unfortunately, she passed away) and she was in a California hospital and it was the same price for the same cup of OJ.

I don't see how anybody can justify that charge. Thus, the entire health industry winds up jacking up the prices on everything and we pay for it.





YR

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

It starts at the hospital level and everybody ignores this.

I had this happen to me and later on a friend of mine wanted to check his sister's hospital bill to see if I was crazy or telling the truth.

I was in the hospital overnight. I have health insurance and it was paying for everything. But, on the bill I had a charge for a small, disposable cup of Orange Juice.

The charge?

$20.

For 1 disposable cup of OJ.

My friend's sister was in the hospital with cancer (unfortunately, she passed away) and she was in a California hospital and it was the same price for the same cup of OJ.

I don't see how anybody can justify that charge. Thus, the entire health industry winds up jacking up the prices on everything and we pay for it.





YR

I remember a few years ago I took the wife to the ER. Among the things they did were give her a couple of tylenol. They charged something like $8 a piece for the tylenol. Drove me crazy thinking how could they charge that when you can buy a whole bottle for less.

I also hate how Doctor's offices will book too many people which results in people waiting over an hour to see the Doctor and once they get in to see the Doctor they only spend a minute or two with the patient. However there are some Doctors who will charge you if you do not show up for an appointment without giving at least a days notice. Seems to me if you wait more than an hour they should take some money off of the appointment fee.

Another thing that irritates me is the system they have set in place where a regular doctor can not prescribe some meds (either at all or just for a certain period of time) without the patient having to go see yet another doctor who basically is just there to approve the medicine.

 

[Doc50]

It starts at the hospital level and everybody ignores this.

I had this happen to me and later on a friend of mine wanted to check his sister's hospital bill to see if I was crazy or telling the truth.

I was in the hospital overnight. I have health insurance and it was paying for everything. But, on the bill I had a charge for a small, disposable cup of Orange Juice.

The charge?

$20.

For 1 disposable cup of OJ.

My friend's sister was in the hospital with cancer (unfortunately, she passed away) and she was in a California hospital and it was the same price for the same cup of OJ.

I don't see how anybody can justify that charge. Thus, the entire health industry winds up jacking up the prices on everything and we pay for it.





YR

Correct. The hospital costs are justified by the amount of "risk" associated with everthing that is provided for someone sick enough to be there. The excess profit on these goods and services is further rationalized as necessary to offset the costs of providing care for those who can not (or will not) pay. So insurance and Medicare and everyone who does pay is carrrying those who don't; that's why the individual mandate in the current healthcare reform legislation is necessary. Everyone will get expensive hospital care for acute illness, but not everyone will pay, and that need for acute care rises dramatically if the patiient has no access to or ability to pay for routine and preventative care. So that's what's wrong with our system; the insurance lobbyists own the congressmen who could fix it. We need term limits and lobby reform. And while we're at it, abolish the filibuster.

 

[Zaxor]

It starts at the hospital level and everybody ignores this.

I had this happen to me and later on a friend of mine wanted to check his sister's hospital bill to see if I was crazy or telling the truth.

I was in the hospital overnight. I have health insurance and it was paying for everything. But, on the bill I had a charge for a small, disposable cup of Orange Juice.

The charge?

$20.

For 1 disposable cup of OJ.

My friend's sister was in the hospital with cancer (unfortunately, she passed away) and she was in a California hospital and it was the same price for the same cup of OJ.

I don't see how anybody can justify that charge. Thus, the entire health industry winds up jacking up the prices on everything and we pay for it.





YR

ridiculous...it really is

I remember a few years ago I took the wife to the ER. Among the things they did were give her a couple of tylenol. They charged something like $8 a piece for the tylenol. Drove me crazy thinking how could they charge that when you can buy a whole bottle for less.

I also hate how Doctor's offices will book too many people which results in people waiting over an hour to see the Doctor and once they get in to see the Doctor they only spend a minute or two with the patient. However there are some Doctors who will charge you if you do not show up for an appointment without giving at least a days notice. Seems to me if you wait more than an hour they should take some money off of the appointment fee.

Another thing that irritates me is the system they have set in place where a regular doctor can not prescribe some meds (either at all or just for a certain period of time) without the patient having to go see yet another doctor who basically is just there to approve the medicine.

again ridiculous between insurance and pharma the patient doesn't stand a chance

Correct. The hospital costs are justified by the amount of "risk" associated with everthing that is provided for someone sick enough to be there. The excess profit on these goods and services is further rationalized as necessary to offset the costs of providing care for those who can not (or will not) pay. So insurance and Medicare and everyone who does pay is carrrying those who don't; that's why the individual mandate in the current healthcare reform legislation is necessary. Everyone will get expensive hospital care for acute illness, but not everyone will pay, and that need for acute care rises dramatically if the patiient has no access to or ability to pay for routine and preventative care. So that's what's wrong with our system; the insurance lobbyists own the congressmen who could fix it. We need term limits and lobby reform. And while we're at it, abolish the filibuster.

thank you Doc exactly right

 

[trickblue]

this is --> MY <-- experience with the medical care in both the USA and in Germany

in 1991 in the US I paid around $380 a month for family health care and had a $500 dollar deductible and the medicine was extremely high and had to go to certain clinic's where the wait was long and the care was competent.

2010 (last year I worked before a medical retirement) here in Germany I pay around $120 a month no deductible would pay no more than $15 (usually much less) on the needed medicine had my choice of doctor (specialist, general practitioner) here though I must say if you choose a specialist you wait time can be up to an hour or 2 by the GP the wait on average is about 20 minutes... I have gotten excellent care and the Dr.'s usually take's the time to explain in detail what it is you have and the the best treatment plan for you. Goes over what you should notice on the way to recovery and when to come back (sorta gives you a piece of mind and spirit) now I will also say this if I want micro fracture surgery on my knee my insurance is not going to pay it...though they will pay for the knee replacement...Elective surgeries are usually 99% not paid however needed ones are paid 100%... I have been medically retired for over 2 years now and have still had excellent healthcare...

I really am overall very happy with the system that is in place here and wish all the people of the world could enjoy its benefits. I was at the time okay with what I was paying and getting in the USA till I found out it could be much better and now I am saddened that so many of you good people are getting screwed and some of you were like me and didn't even know it.

The problem we have here is the bureaucracy... the money is not going to be spent as it is supposed to be spent. Once the greedy politicians get their hands on it, it will never be used for it's intended purpose... New department after new department will be formed...

In 1960 8% of the US population worked for some form of government and 25% worked in manufacturing... today 24% work for the government and 7% work in manufacturing...

It will make going to the DMV like an enjoyable stroll in the park...

 

[Zaxor]

The problem we have here is the bureaucracy... the money is not going to be spent as it is supposed to be spent. Once the greedy politicians get their hands on it, it will never be used for it's intended purpose... New department after new department will be formed...

In 1960 8% of the US population worked for some form of government and 25% worked in manufacturing... today 24% work for the government and 7% work in manufacturing...

It will make going to the DMV like an enjoyable stroll in the park...

that of course is the truth my friend unless the run it like a military operation

 

[Doc50]

The problem we have here is the bureaucracy... the money is not going to be spent as it is supposed to be spent. Once the greedy politicians get their hands on it, it will never be used for it's intended purpose... New department after new department will be formed...

In 1960 8% of the US population worked for some form of government and 25% worked in manufacturing... today 24% work for the government and 7% work in manufacturing...

It will make going to the DMV like an enjoyable stroll in the park...

Remember, Medicare is government-run healthcare -- and I don't hear anyone clamoring for its demise (except the libertarians and right wing radicals who think all government is bad). Medicare for all wouldn't be a bad alternative to the current mess, and rich folks could still purchase high end policies on their own, similar to what all congressmen already have.

One thing I must point out, though -- if savings in Medicare is not focussed on hospital excesses as pointed out earlier in this discussion, and is instead placed further on the backs of primary care physicians, then the docs will be forced to stop seeing the poor re-imbursing patients (some already have), and access to care will become another huge problem that will contribute to driving costs substantially higher.

 

[Kangaroo]

Medical lawsuits make insurence price hiking look like a drop in the bucket. People complain that doctor's make too much and that medical treatment costs too much, but all of that is a direct result of frivalous lawsuits which drive up malpractice costs which drive up insurence costs which drive up medical costs and doctor's salaries.

Do not forget Government regulations and Medicare drive up cost as well.
Most hospitals build in extra charges to cover Medicare patients because they get lucky to break even or take a loss so we get the buck passed onto us. Then lets add in all the requirements that a hospital has to do from HIPAA. EMR (which is not cheap) etc etc.

You want to know why an aspirin cost 5$ at a hospital when you can get a whole bottle at walmart for 5$. Regulations because we have to track when it was checked out and by who (done through a cabinet with software, locks which limit access that sync back to a database) and who dispensed it etc etc. So built in overhead none of that stuff is cheap.

 

[JBond]

I remember a few years ago I took the wife to the ER. Among the things they did were give her a couple of tylenol. They charged something like $8 a piece for the tylenol. Drove me crazy thinking how could they charge that when you can buy a whole bottle for less.

Someone has to pay for all those that won't. Might as well be rich guys like us. It's only fair you know.