Changes to catch rule make harder to overturn on field of rulings

[cml750]

As long as a bias idiot like Blandino is making the calls, it will still be his bias judgement no matter how the rule reads. He twist the rules and the facts with all of his BS calls.

 

[DandyDon52]

Yes. I did mean as a runner. My question, since they ruled him "going to the ground", was how many steps would a player have to take before he was no longer said to be falling?

The football moves I believe he made make this irrelevant but, I'd still like an answer from Blandino. My guess is it's his judgement.

I can't really fault Dez for trying to score but, yeah if he did cradle it we might've won. That fast instinctual thinking is part of why he's so good though. Everything slows down when you're at the top of your game like he is.

if a player is falling, then he is falling, and will fall to the ground.
Other wise he would be stumbling but regained his balance.

That is what made this play so messed up, is that dez was falling, he wasnt pushed or tackled.
If he hadnt fell he could have walked into the endzone

So it isnt a question of how many steps, it is does he fall to the ground or not.
The whole thing would be considered going to the ground in a fall.
Football moves and possession, is it a catch are subject to determination, and you may not like the results, so best to avoid that.
1.dont let the ball come loose
2.dont let the ball hit the ground
3.dont lunge for goal line after just catching the ball, or you run into something like the "catch"

 

[DogFace]

if a player is falling, then he is falling, and will fall to the ground.
Other wise he would be stumbling but regained his balance.

That is what made this play so messed up, is that dez was falling, he wasnt pushed or tackled.
If he hadnt fell he could have walked into the endzone

So it isnt a question of how many steps, it is does he fall to the ground or not.
The whole thing would be considered going to the ground in a fall.
Football moves and possession, is it a catch are subject to determination, and you may not like the results, so best to avoid that.
1.dont let the ball come loose
2.dont let the ball hit the ground
3.dont lunge for goal line after just catching the ball, or you run into something like the "catch"

So if he took 8 steps before diving when would you say the falling started? What if it was 15 steps?
I would say he didn't "stumble" or start to fall until he was tripped by Shields. I think that was after two steps. Regardless, the football moves made him a runner. That is, switching the ball from his shoulder and two hands to one hand, preparing for the lunge, the lunge, and bracing for the fall. I think those are all football moves.

Starting to fall and stumbling is extremely subjective. A person can almost fall but, regain balance as you said. You could say he started to fall.
Semantics 101.
It's a very ambiguous term and shouldn't have been used in Blandino's attempt at an explanation.

 

[DandyDon52]

So if he took 8 steps before diving when would you say the falling started? What if it was 15 steps?
I would say he didn't "stumble" or start to fall until he was tripped by Shields. I think that was after two steps. Regardless, the football moves made him a runner. That is, switching the ball from his shoulder and two hands to one hand, preparing for the lunge, the lunge, and bracing for the fall. I think those are all football moves.

Starting to fall and stumbling is extremely subjective. A person can almost fall but, regain balance as you said. You could say he started to fall.
Semantics 101.
It's a very ambiguous term and shouldn't have been used in Blandino's attempt at an explanation.

Well the football moves are subject to interpretation, and where one sees the moves, another doesnt.
Dez did fall, so he was falling, he took steps as he was falling, so then it isnt clear if he should be classified as a runner.
Guy usually do take steps on way down in that situation.

I havent looked at it in a long time, do you have a link for you tube vid?

The way it all happened, just left it open to confusion,and it was 4th down, that is why I say dez should know to just make the catch clean,
forget running or td's he had the 1st down and that was what was important.

 

[cowboyblue22]

the cowboys wont be the last team that was effected by this rule they had other opportunities to make plays that would of sealed the game for them I don't like the way the rule is because each individual official will look at each play differently it along with lots of other things have changed the game

 

[percyhoward]

Dez did fall, so he was falling, he took steps as he was falling, so then it isn't clear if he should be classified as a runner.

Completing the catch process = becoming a runner. There's nothing in the completion of the catch process about falling or being upright.

"A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps."

That's the current rule with the football moves reinstated-- basically the same as the one in place in 2014.

 

[DogFace]

Well the football moves are subject to interpretation, and where one sees the moves, another doesnt.
Dez did fall, so he was falling, he took steps as he was falling, so then it isnt clear if he should be classified as a runner.
Guy usually do take steps on way down in that situation.

I havent looked at it in a long time, do you have a link for you tube vid?

The way it all happened, just left it open to confusion,and it was 4th down, that is why I say dez should know to just make the catch clean,
forget running or td's he had the 1st down and that was what was important.

No. I don't have a link.

The one thing Percy and Blindzebra pointed out in a thread last year is once the 3 requirements for the catch were made he should have been considered a runner.
Control, 2 feet down, and TIME(that's key) to make a football move and he's a runner. I've argued he had time and actually made more than one move which demonstrated he clearly "had time".

No one argues he didn't do these things. Some just said he was falling. However, the rule didn't say these three requirements couldn't be met and supersede the fall. Nowhere did it say those requirements didn't matter if one started to fall.

They really botched this call.

 

[DandyDon52]

This is a good one to look at , and I dont think you can say he was a runner.
When he first grabs the ball he bobbles it, then by time he has clear possession of it, he takes only 1 step as he falls.
He only takes 2 steps total, and with first one down, he doesnt have possession yet.

Plus if you look at it in regular speed, he was just going down after catching the ball.
When he hits the ground, the ball moves, and then it pops out as he rolls over.

I dont think he established himself as a runner, and he did not complete the catch all the way to the ground.

On a play like this, being classified as a runner, so it is ok for the ball to move when he hits, is going to go both ways,
but most often they wont be considered a runner on a play like this.

Dez wanted to score a td, and reaches out with the one hand, which is too risky for that situation.
He was not considered to be a runner, and if you look at it regular speed, he is not running but falling, and like I said only
1 step after he had control of the ball.

It suck, but this play doesnt guarantee a dallas win even if ruled a catch, and they made many mistakes in this game, too many to win.
I dont blame the refs, or any one player, it was a team loss.

 

[Idgit]

That's still an obvious catch.

And it's still not an indisputable call on replay, regardless. Frustrating.

Should have won that game in the other 59 minutes, regardless.

 

[percyhoward]

This is a good one to look at , and I dont think you can say he was a runner.

I appreciate any attempt at objectivity, but remember that Blandino had no dispute regarding the first two parts of the catch process. His problem with the play wasn't a) control or b) two feet down, it was part c (football move). Specifically, he said the reach needed to be with two hands, or with the arm extended.

This outstanding post by hairic addresses part a, frame by frame.

 

[cowboyblue22]

it was a catch but after the week of all protest and griping the league went through over the detroit game there is no way when the ball moved that blandino was going to make it a catch.

 

[TheDoctor]

Yeah sure, until it's Dez or another Cowboys' receiver.

 

[DandyDon52]

I appreciate any attempt at objectivity, but remember that Blandino had no dispute regarding the first two parts of the catch process. His problem with the play wasn't a) control or b) two feet down, it was part c (football move). Specifically, he said the reach needed to be with two hands, or with the arm extended.

This outstanding post by hairic addresses part a, frame by frame.

Well I watched the play again, and in one clip they had the ref announcement, and he said the player failed to show possession to the ground.
So they never considered him a runner, and the ball came loose.
I was just thinking , on a play like this,where it is hard to say either way, they should just do the play over, meaning
it is still 4th down, and dallas and GB get another shot.
When they decide in favor of one team in a big play like this , it isnt fair to the other team, better to just run another play.
The reason I say that is, they will always get some wrong, so to avoid that have a do over play.

That is better than giving it to either team.
Like offsetting penalty's, if it is too difficult to decide fairly then just reset and run the play again, and that would include the clock.

I watched the Fitzgerald catch that was similar to dez, and it was incomplete too ,but ruled a catch.
The one Cobb catch was clearly inc, it hit the ground, and they ruled it complete !!
So bad rulings, and controversial rulings are not good, and they will continue to happen, even though there are ways to eliminate them.
I still wonder at times if games are not rigged, but "influenced" for certain teams to win at certain times.

 

[DogFace]

Well I watched the play again, and in one clip they had the ref announcement, and he said the player failed to show possession to the ground.
So they never considered him a runner, and the ball came loose.
I was just thinking , on a play like this,where it is hard to say either way, they should just do the play over, meaning
it is still 4th down, and dallas and GB get another shot.
When they decide in favor of one team in a big play like this , it isnt fair to the other team, better to just run another play.
The reason I say that is, they will always get some wrong, so to avoid that have a do over play.

That is better than giving it to either team.
Like offsetting penalty's, if it is too difficult to decide fairly then just reset and run the play again, and that would include the clock.

I watched the Fitzgerald catch that was similar to dez, and it was incomplete too ,but ruled a catch.
The one Cobb catch was clearly inc, it hit the ground, and they ruled it complete !!
So bad rulings, and controversial rulings are not good, and they will continue to happen, even though there are ways to eliminate them.
I still wonder at times if games are not rigged, but "influenced" for certain teams to win at certain times.

Dandy, I respect your point of view but, I think you're missing the football moves. He had control as soon as it hit his hands. He then brings the ball to his shoulder then moves the ball from his shoulder and two hands to palmjng it with his left hand. He braces with one arm and uses that brace to propel himself further towards the goal line. Then he reaches with one hand. Blandino said the reach wasn't "enough" of a move. What does that even mean? It's nonsense.

I don't think I'll ever forget this play. It is more haunting than The Catch.

 

[DandyDon52]

Dandy, I respect your point of view but, I think you're missing the football moves. He had control as soon as it hit his hands. He then brings the ball to his shoulder then moves the ball from his shoulder and two hands to palmjng it with his left hand. He braces with one arm and uses that brace to propel himself further towards the goal line. Then he reaches with one hand. Blandino said the reach wasn't "enough" of a move. What does that even mean? It's nonsense.

I don't think I'll ever forget this play. It is more haunting than The Catch.

No I see what your saying, but they didnt consider him a runner, so the football moves dont matter.
only the possession going all the way to the ground matters.
If you look at it in slow mo he looks like he took steps, and should be a runner, but if you look at it regular speed,
he doesnt look like a runner, just a guy falling after a catch.

I dont care for the rules, and they should be changed, but as they were then, and I guess still are, I can see why it was ruled
a non catch.
That is why players have to be smarter, they know or should know the rules, and any time they bobble a ball going to the ground
it is going to be reviewed, and this isnt the only mistake ever made in a review, and it wont be the last.

Bottom line is on 4th down, big game , late in game, you dont want that play reviewed, but dez wasnt thinking about that, just trying
to get the td, when all he needed was a clear catch that wont be reviewed.

In the calvin johnson non catch, he made a clear catch, but went to the ground, and he actually let go of the ball and left it on the ground,
so he could celebrate lol, and the reviewer saw it as coming out or something, but he clearly left it on the ground on purpose.
I guess if you go to the ground, dont let the ball go or come loose until you are back up.

Any time a play goes to review you are at the mercy of the reviewers, and they may go for or against you, so better to avoid that,

 

[Kevinicus]

No I see what your saying, but they didnt consider him a runner, so the football moves dont matter.
only the possession going all the way to the ground matters.
If you look at it in slow mo he looks like he took steps, and should be a runner, but if you look at it regular speed,
he doesnt look like a runner, just a guy falling after a catch.

I dont care for the rules, and they should be changed, but as they were then, and I guess still are, I can see why it was ruled
a non catch.
That is why players have to be smarter, they know or should know the rules, and any time they bobble a ball going to the ground
it is going to be reviewed, and this isnt the only mistake ever made in a review, and it wont be the last.

Bottom line is on 4th down, big game , late in game, you dont want that play reviewed, but dez wasnt thinking about that, just trying
to get the td, when all he needed was a clear catch that wont be reviewed.

In the calvin johnson non catch, he made a clear catch, but went to the ground, and he actually let go of the ball and left it on the ground,
so he could celebrate lol, and the reviewer saw it as coming out or something, but he clearly left it on the ground on purpose.
I guess if you go to the ground, dont let the ball go or come loose until you are back up.

Any time a play goes to review you are at the mercy of the reviewers, and they may go for or against you, so better to avoid that,

They do matter. They're all that matter. They are what make him a runner.

Because of them, that whole going to the ground nonsense does not matter.

 

[DandyDon52]

They do matter. They're all that matter. They are what make him a runner.

Because of them, that whole going to the ground nonsense does not matter.

Well to the reviewers blandino or whoever, the football moves did not matter, just the "going to the ground nonsense"
and they have the final say, and that is all that really matters.
They are never going to say o yeah it was a catch, we screwed up lol.
it is history now, and wr's especially dez better learn from it.

 

[TX Cowboy]

The catch was overturned because Dez didn't maintain control after contact with the ground, which is the rule for a player who hasn't yet established himself as a runner. The problem with that ruling is that Dez had already established himself as a runner before the ball came loose. He had control + two feet (at least) + football move. It's that last part (the football move) that the league says was missing..

Blandino tried to explain his ruling by claiming that Dez didn't make an "obvious" enough reach for the goal line, and went so far as to say that it would have been a catch if he'd extended his arm, or reached with two hands. IOW, those would have been football moves. But there has never been a rule that a player has to reach with two hands to break the plane of the goal line, and since Dez was falling toward the pylon, extending his arm would not have advanced the ball any farther than it was.

All the evidence I need that proves it was a catch

 

[Kevinicus]

Well to the reviewers blandino or whoever, the football moves did not matter, just the "going to the ground nonsense"
and they have the final say, and that is all that really matters.
They are never going to say o yeah it was a catch, we screwed up lol.
it is history now, and wr's especially dez better learn from it.

The thing is, they explicitly said after the fact that moves did matter. They simply chose to ignore them.

I don't know if it was a purposeful act of wrongdoing, or if they are just grossly incompetent, but you are right, they certainly going to admit to the fact now.